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UER Forum > Private Boards Index > The Gamers Board > PS4 will restrict used games and not be backward compatible (Viewed 7387 times)
Esoterik 


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PS4 will restrict used games and not be backward compatible
< on 4/4/2012 4:39 PM >
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Right now it's only a rumor. Not surprised about the backward compatible part, but disappointed that they would lock out used games. A new PS3 game can cost $60, PS4 game costs are sure to be even more.

http://www.1up.com...estrict-used-games

The PlayStation 4 is widely believed to be between one-and-a-half and two-and-a-half years away, meaning it may still be more than a year before any official details make their way out. Yet we're already hearing some preliminary information about Sony's next home game console, including details which will not be welcomed by those who value the ability to buy, sell, and trade used videogames.

As digital content has become more commonplace, games have increasingly become non-tradable commodities. Anything purchased through Steam is yours forever; even if you never play a game you've bought (unless it's purchased as a gift), it is linked to your account for good and cannot be borrowed or sold. Digital games on consoles, whether they be from the Xbox Live Arcade, Wii Virtual Console, or PlayStation Network are also permanent purchases. The same can be said for app purchases on iOS or Android, and this extends beyond games to digital music and movies acquired through iTunes or Amazon.

But physical games have, much to the chagrin of some publishers and developers, continued to remain free of such restrictions. Online passes restricting access to certain features in used games without an additional purchase have made some used games less desirable, but generally speaking the core experience a game provides can still be passed on from person to another without any fuss.

Gamers were understandably taken aback when it was reported that the Xbox 360's still-unannounced successor would feature copy protection disallowing the use of secondhand games in some capacity. There are those in the games industry who have long despised the sale of used games -- through GameStop in particular, a retailer accused of pushing used games that the publishers don't get a cut of ahead of new games -- but aside from the specific restrictions placed upon them through online passes, gamers have been free to trade and sell their physical games as they see fit.

There was some skepticism Microsoft would implement such a restriction because of the idea gamers would respond by flocking to Sony's new, used-game-playing system. But if a new Kotaku report is accurate, the PlayStation 4 -- code name Orbis -- won't be a bastion for used game players, either.

Describing the information as having come from a reliable source who "has shared correct information with us before," Kotaku reports the system is currently set to be equipped with an AMD x64 processor and AMD Southern Islands GPU which would allow it to output at a resolution of 4096x2160. (1080p, for comparison's sake, is 1920x1080.) It would also be capable of handling 3D games at 1080p, a notch above the PS3's limit of 720p for 3D gaming. Early dev kits are said to already be in developers' hands in preparation for a launch during the holiday 2013 season.

But the most eye-catching detail is that Sony, too, will allegedly become more averse to letting gamers play used games. The system will reportedly offer games in two ways, similar to the setup on Vita: They can be purchased on Blu-ray or as downloads through the PlayStation Network. Downloads would be locked to your PSN account, as would any disc-based games you purchase. Doing so in the latter case would enable you to save the game to the system's hard drive or download it from PSN later, which does admittedly sound convenient.

It gets more restrictive from there, and it's not just used games which are largely being given the cold shoulder. Backwards compatibility, a feature which was available on PS3 for PS2 games before it was stripped out in later revisions of the system, would be gone from the start. It was not mentioned, but it's possible PS3 games could be made available for download on PSN, again mirroring the situation we see on Vita where physical PSP games cannot be played but certain digital games can be transferred to or purchased on the new system.

Whether you opt to download or purchase games at retail, going online would be a requirement. Even with games on discs, connecting to the Internet would be necessary for making use of them which, as Kotaku notes, is something PC gamers are already accustomed to. This is potentially a big sticking point, as requiring an Internet connection to make use of any game could make the system unusable by a certain demographic. And if the Xbox 360's successor employed a similar scheme, it could mean that those without Internet will have a much more limited selection of game systems to choose from next generation.

Despite how it may sound, the source suggested these new restrictions would not completely eliminate the ability to buy and sell used games. Doing so would simply yield a much more limited experience, though details were not forthcoming on exactly how this would work.

From the sound of it, this would essentially be an online pass for all physical games built in at the system level. Many publishers would surely be pleased, particularly if it saved them the trouble of having to implement an online pass themselves. Ubisoft may have been able to avoid making Driver: San Francisco's online pass free if the system had not been in their hands to botch up. Then again, for all we know, PS4 game buyers would still be forced to input a code to prove they purchased a new game and situations like Driver's could still arise.

GameStop CEO Paul Raines recently cast doubt on the possibility of the next Xbox (or any system) blocking used games. He may be right, but probably only in so far as used games will be playable, just in very limited fashion. A great deal of the company's business is derived from the sale of used games, so it's easy to understand why Raines would take such a stance. Hardware and new software sales don't present the high margins secondhand games do and GameStop would like to keep things the way they are.

While many publishers and developers have come out against the sale of used games, there is a case to be made that their effect is not as detrimental as opponents would have you believe. It's entirely possible that someone buys and sells only used games, never spending a dollar that ends up in the hands of those who made them. On the other hand, a used game may be sold in order to get money to spend on a new game. Alternatively, a used game may be purchased that introduces someone to a new franchise. That person then purchases downloadable content for that specific game (with the money going right to the publisher) and, when a sequel comes along, he or she is compelled to purchase a new copy at launch before buying DLC for it, too. This may not happen in every situation, but just as is the case with piracy, a used game sale cannot be directly chalked up to a lost sale and nothing more.

Keep in mind none of this used game talk is confirmed; it's possible Sony and Microsoft are considering such functionality but will ultimately opt against it. But if they do not, we'll get the chance to see if all of those gamers who were angry with this news when it first surfaced in January are serious about not buying a platform that inhibits the use of secondhand games.





“You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons.”
Crypton 


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Re: PS4 will restrict used games and not be backward compatible
< Reply # 1 on 4/4/2012 4:48 PM >
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PC always was, always will be, the most open gaming platform.

Pirates will always outmake the DRM pressures, something companies just don't understand.


/let the holy war commence




Eschaton 


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Re: PS4 will restrict used games and not be backward compatible
< Reply # 2 on 4/4/2012 5:27 PM >
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I have a personal vendetta against Gamestop. I fully and wholeheartedly support any nails in its coffin.




Ars Gratia Adventuris
Boffo 

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Re: PS4 will restrict used games and not be backward compatible
< Reply # 3 on 4/4/2012 9:34 PM >
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The same set of rumors were spun before the initial release of the PS3 and never materialized. Though in the past six or so years publishers have done a damn good job of demonizing used game sales, not to mention the market for renting games at your local video store is pretty much dead. So I'd bet the rumors have more weight today than they did 10 years ago.

At least the WiiU won't have this crap. That said the WiiU is probably gonna be on par with a PS3 and 360 not a PS4 or 720.




Here's a lockpick. It might be handy if you, the master of unlocking, take it with you.
Esoterik 


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Re: PS4 will restrict used games and not be backward compatible
< Reply # 4 on 4/4/2012 10:11 PM >
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....so is there a way to hack an online pass code?

Google searchs say yes but say you have to download a program, which I'm not going to do.




“You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons.”
Eschaton 


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Entry: Eschaton (es-kuh-tawn) noun | end of time, climax of history | Etymology: Greek for 'last'

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Re: PS4 will restrict used games and not be backward compatible
< Reply # 5 on 4/4/2012 10:32 PM >
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Posted by Esoterik
....so is there a way to hack an online pass code?

Google searchs say yes but say you have to download a program, which I'm not going to do.


I'm sure someone will reverse engineer the publishers' product authorization algorithm and develop a keygen app, with enough time.




Ars Gratia Adventuris
RescueMe1060 


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Re: PS4 will restrict used games and not be backward compatible
< Reply # 6 on 4/5/2012 12:10 AM >
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I can tell you right now that every game will come with those stupid online passes and in order to play online (with a used game) you'll need to buy one of the codes for 10 bucks




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Samurai 

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Re: PS4 will restrict used games and not be backward compatible
< Reply # 7 on 4/6/2012 11:22 AM >
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Posted by rescueme1060
I can tell you right now that every game will come with those stupid online passes and in order to play online (with a used game) you'll need to buy one of the codes for 10 bucks


this is really starting to pop as an issue.
For example, Dirt 2 had a great online playability. In fact, the online was why I played the game. When Dirt 3 dropped last May, you had to have a code to play online which sucked balls if you bought a used copy.
I have run into this with Forza 4 as well...

what I am getting at is people will only put up with so much horseshit before they say 'fuck it' and go do something else. The way technology moves now, there will be something to fill in the space. The manufacturers and publishers don't realize that there are more than enough people buying new games that they don't need to overdo the heavy-handed shit.




Eschaton 


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Re: PS4 will restrict used games and not be backward compatible
< Reply # 8 on 4/6/2012 11:47 AM >
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Posted by Samurai

The manufacturers and publishers don't realize that there are more than enough people buying new games that they don't need to overdo the heavy-handed shit.



Too true. In the end, what publishers are doing to solve the problem is counter productive. Killing the used game market may only increase new game sales by a small percentage, but will majorly alienate the niche in the market that can't afford the price for a new game. All you get is less people playing, and the hobby becomes that much more exclusive.




Ars Gratia Adventuris
RescueMe1060 


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Re: PS4 will restrict used games and not be backward compatible
< Reply # 9 on 4/8/2012 5:49 PM >
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I make it a rule to (try to) never pay more than $40 for a new game and $30 for a used game. I've found that gamestaq.com is a good site for this.

I refuse to buy online passes, and I avoid the games that require them most of the time.




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Valkyre 


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Re: PS4 will restrict used games and not be backward compatible
< Reply # 10 on 9/26/2012 9:30 AM >
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Cool, an assignment for programmers, developers and hackers.




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mewthree 


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Re: PS4 will restrict used games and not be backward compatible
< Reply # 11 on 2/27/2013 7:04 AM >
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so apparently that wont be happening anymore... but there is still a rumour that the 720 will require a constant internet connection to run any game (even in single player)




Valkyre 


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Re: PS4 will restrict used games and not be backward compatible
< Reply # 12 on 2/27/2013 10:53 AM >
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Posted by mewthree
so apparently that wont be happening anymore... but there is still a rumour that the 720 will require a constant internet connection to run any game (even in single player)


That sucks really, really bad! I was hoping I could mend my relation with the xbox console but I guess it's only going to get worse if the internet connection requirement (even for single player / campaign modes) is true.
Shit, I was expecting better than this!




Once things get political, they want us to stop shooting and start dancing.
I don't dance.
MonkeyPunchBaby 


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Re: PS4 will restrict used games and not be backward compatible
< Reply # 13 on 2/27/2013 11:20 AM >
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Posted by Valkyre


That sucks really, really bad! I was hoping I could mend my relation with the xbox console but I guess it's only going to get worse if the internet connection requirement (even for single player / campaign modes) is true.
Shit, I was expecting better than this!


Whats the big deal? The Wii and WiiU, PS3, and 360 are always connected online. Seriously, whose console is not connected via wifi?




mewthree 


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Re: PS4 will restrict used games and not be backward compatible
< Reply # 14 on 2/27/2013 6:20 PM >
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Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby


Whats the big deal? The Wii and WiiU, PS3, and 360 are always connected online. Seriously, whose console is not connected via wifi?


mine aren't..

the thing is, how about in 10 years when you want to play your old games... and you cant because they decided to end the service and now what you payed for is unplayable because they shut the server down? It's a built in kill switch. There are already some 360 games you cant play online because the service has been shut down.


this guy on youtube talks about it a bit.. (well he rants actually)
http://www.youtube...atch?v=zJkHSUwixT4




MonkeyPunchBaby 


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Re: PS4 will restrict used games and not be backward compatible
< Reply # 15 on 2/27/2013 9:25 PM >
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Like how my N64 games don't work on my Wii? That's an awfully nitpicky thing to he upset about. There are plenty of legitimate complaints to be had about the 360/720 and ps3/4, but being connected tot the internet is not one of them. They aren't saying the games have their own servers, just the system will be online just every system is now.




Valkyre 


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Re: PS4 will restrict used games and not be backward compatible
< Reply # 16 on 2/27/2013 10:01 PM >
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Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby


Whats the big deal? The Wii and WiiU, PS3, and 360 are always connected online. Seriously, whose console is not connected via wifi?


You're thinking of it as a default user. I don't spend $100 on every game I buy. My ps3 is on 3.55, exploited the firmware and I download games off torrents. I can't access PSN, because if I did, I'd get banned (for Sony would know I'm on an exploited FW). So I'm thinking of it from a developer / hacker's point of view.




Once things get political, they want us to stop shooting and start dancing.
I don't dance.
MonkeyPunchBaby 


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Re: PS4 will restrict used games and not be backward compatible
< Reply # 17 on 2/27/2013 11:25 PM >
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Posted by Valkyre


You're thinking of it as a default user. I don't spend $100 on every game I buy. My ps3 is on 3.55, exploited the firmware and I download games off torrents. I can't access PSN, because if I did, I'd get banned (for Sony would know I'm on an exploited FW). So I'm thinking of it from a developer / hacker's point of view.


well then dont complain since you dont pay for your games. Also when has anyone spent 100 on a single game that wasn't a collectors edition? Its people like you have created this situation. stop stealing games and pay for them like an adult and then you dont have to worry.




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Re: PS4 will restrict used games and not be backward compatible
< Reply # 18 on 2/27/2013 11:53 PM >
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Posted by mewthree
the thing is, how about in 10 years when you want to play your old games... and you cant because they decided to end the service and now what you payed for is unplayable because they shut the server down? It's a built in kill switch. There are already some 360 games you cant play online because the service has been shut down.

It's basically this, a thousand times this.

There's also examples of DRM that require you to be online at all times. Assassin's Creed 2 for the PC comes to mind. If your internet dropped at all you were kicked out of the game until you could reestablish a connection.




Here's a lockpick. It might be handy if you, the master of unlocking, take it with you.
mewthree 


Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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Re: PS4 will restrict used games and not be backward compatible
< Reply # 19 on 2/28/2013 12:13 AM >
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Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby
Like how my N64 games don't work on my Wii? That's an awfully nitpicky thing to he upset about. There are plenty of legitimate complaints to be had about the 360/720 and ps3/4, but being connected tot the internet is not one of them. They aren't saying the games have their own servers, just the system will be online just every system is now.



no, you are missing the point... once the xbox720 is no longer current... and the xbox1440 is current... there will be no server to connect to and therefore you can no longer play your games you bought. For the backwards compatibility issues, yes you are right... take out the n64 and play it to play those games.... there is no kill switch on the n64...

try playing halo 2 online... you can't. but you can at least still play single player... being connected online isn't the issue... the games aren't just looking to be connected online. They are looking to be connected to a specific server... which will not outlive the 720. What they will probably do is tell you to buy the 1440, and rebuy the game again.




UER Forum > Private Boards Index > The Gamers Board > PS4 will restrict used games and not be backward compatible (Viewed 7387 times)
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