How can we say that? If I am worshiping God, say I'm @ church, and haven't done anything to break the relationship with God for a few minutes, how am I in a state of sin? You can say "original sin," but I wasn't there for that event.

How can you not always be in contravention of some biblical admonishment when the entire book is contradictory? Are you wearing two fabrics at the same time? Working on the sabbath? Mistreating your slaves?

Posted by tekriter How can you not always be in contravention of some biblical admonishment when the entire book is contradictory? Are you wearing two fabrics at the same time? Working on the sabbath? Mistreating your slaves?

That's a good start but let's go deeper; what I mean is more of a philosophical break w/God, not a material one (pardon the pun). What I mean is, if I'm devout and say I do follow the rules, how is it that I am still in a state of sin? Just being human shouldn't be a punishment.

Sorry, I'll try to be more clear.

I think your question is flawed.

I suggest to you that you need to define the set of rules first.

This may not be possible, considering that the rules are already defined in writing and are not consistent with a) each other, or b) the known universe.

You might narrow your question by defining the specific rules you want to follow, however any results you get would be suspect unless you can justify why you chose those rules and ignored others, or even for that matter why any of those rules should be followed in the first place.

Beyond that, if you want to be philosophical, there is nothing you can do that can be determined by a rule, since anything you do can be made to appear follow the rule.

This has to do with meanings and defining rules.

That is the problem with the shell game you are playing with undefined, supernatural rules.

Posted by tekriter Sorry, I'll try to be more clear. I think your question is flawed. I suggest to you that you need to define the set of rules first. This may not be possible, considering that the rules are already defined in writing and are not consistent with a) each other, or b) the known universe. You might narrow your question by defining the specific rules you want to follow, however any results you get would be suspect unless you can justify why you chose those rules and ignored others, or even for that matter why any of those rules should be followed in the first place. Beyond that, if you want to be philosophical, there is nothing you can do that can be determined by a rule, since anything you do can be made to appear follow the rule. This has to do with meanings and defining rules. That is the problem with the shell game you are playing with undefined, supernatural rules.

Hmmm...If I agree to play by certain "rules" be they Christian or some other approach, is there a way to not be in conflict with them? So, say I adopt a Roman Catholic approach to life (I choose this because it's the one with which I am most familiar), I follow the Church's dictates in every way humanly possible, yet I still am seen as a sinner? LOL @ the decked stacked against me just because I was born? WTF? Outside the easy shots we can take on religion, how does that system of belief help a person understand the world?

If I take up your line of reasoning, being a good Roman Catholic means to do what I can to meet the Church's rules and then accepting that that still isn't good enough. What kind of way is that to live?

Trying to have a logical discussion about "original sin" is like trying to have a logical discussion about brooms standing up by themselves in a leap year. It is a concept that was artificially created in an attempt to bring some kind of structure to a collection of ideas which had been thrown together for centuries, pulling from vastly different sources, some of which have a good basis in ethics and some of which are ravings of mad men, but the system was flawed and basically random, so people have had to come up with all kinds of addons and definitions in an attempt to justify something which cannot make any sense, since it has no real meaning behind it.

the goal of a Christian is be Christ like, not to be Christ. According to them he is the only one free of sin, so your goal is to strive and be as much like him as possible. Everyone sins, so long as you aren't going it maliciously, then you are ok. At least that's how I have always taken it.

Look at it this way: I'm overweight, and I will be until I lose weight. The fact that I'm not eating chicken wings right now doesn't change that fact.

Mmmmm, chicken wings...

Posted by splumer Look at it this way: I'm overweight, and I will be until I lose weight. The fact that I'm not eating chicken wings right now doesn't change that fact. Mmmmm, chicken wings...

next time I'm in cleveland we'll get wings.

and sin.

Posted by tekriter next time I'm in cleveland we'll get wings. and sin.

Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby the goal of a Christian is be Christ like, not to be Christ. According to them he is the only one free of sin, so your goal is to strive and be as much like him as possible. Everyone sins, so long as you aren't going it maliciously, then you are ok. At least that's how I have always taken it.

Unless the gays are involved, that part of the bible is SUPER important.

Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby the goal of a Christian is be Christ like, not to be Christ. According to them he is the only one free of sin, so your goal is to strive and be as much like him as possible. Everyone sins, so long as you aren't going it maliciously, then you are ok. At least that's how I have always taken it.

Have you been out to curse a fig tree yet?

Matthew 21:17-19
And he left them, and went out of the city into Bethany; and he lodged there. Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he hungered. And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.


Don't forget to judge people like the jesus. MPB does is in nearly every post.

John 9:39
And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world.

And also, don't judge anybody like the jesus.

John 12:47
And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

This bible thing seems confused.

Perhaps you can take comfort in the fact that no man can be righteous:

Job 15:14
What is man, that he should be clean? and he which is born of a woman, that he should be righteous?

Isaiah 41:26
Who hath declared from the beginning, that we may know? and beforetime, that we may say, He is righteous? yea, there is none that sheweth, yea, there is none that declareth, yea, there is none that heareth your words.

Isaiah 64:6
We are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags.

Romans 3:10
There is none righteous, no, not one.

Unless you are a righteous man:

Genesis 7:1
For thee [Noah] have I seen righteous before me.
2 Samuel 22:25
Therefore the LORD hath recompensed me [David] according to my righteousness; according to my cleanness in his eye sight.
Job 2:3
Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
Psalm 1:5-6
Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.
Psalm 37:25
Yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.
Proverbs 2:7
He layeth up sound wisdom for the righteous .
Proverbs 18:5
It is not good to ... overthrow the righteous in judgment.
Proverbs 2:20
Keep the paths of the righteous.
Proverbs 3:32
His secret is with the righteous.
Proverbs 10:3
The LORD will not suffer the soul of the righteous to famish.
Proverbs 10:11
The mouth of a righteous man is a well of life.
Proverbs 10:16
The labour of the righteous tendeth to life.
Proverbs 10:21
The lips of the righteous feed many.
Proverbs 10:24
The desire of the righteous shall be granted.
Proverbs 10:28
The hope of the righteous shall be gladness.
Proverbs 10:30
The righteous shall never be removed.
Proverbs 10:32
The lips of the righteous know what is acceptable.
Proverbs 10:28
The righteous shall never be removed.
Proverbs 11:8
The righteous is delivered out of trouble.
Proverbs 11:10
When it goeth well with the righteous, the city rejoiceth.
Proverbs 11:21
The seed of the righteous shall be delivered.
Proverbs 11:23
The desire of the righteous is only good.
Proverbs 11:28
The righteous shall flourish as a branch.
Proverbs 11:30
The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life.
Proverbs 11:31
The righteous shall be recompensed in the earth.
Proverbs 12:3
The root of the righteous shall not be moved.
Proverbs 12:5
The thoughts of the righteous are right.
Proverbs 12:7
The house of the righteous shall stand.
Proverbs 12:10
A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast.
Proverbs 12:12
The root of the righteous yieldeth fruit.
Proverbs 12:26
The righteous is more excellent than his neighbour.
Proverbs 13:5
A righteous man hateth lying.
Proverbs 13:9
The light of the righteous rejoiceth.
Proverbs 13:21
To the righteous good shall be repayed.
Proverbs 13:25
The righteous eateth to the satisfying of his soul.
Proverbs 14:9
Among the righteous there is favour."
Proverbs 14:19
The evil bow before the good; and the wicked at the gates of the righteous.
Proverbs 14:32
The righteous hath hope in his death.
Proverbs 15:6
n the house of the righteous is much treasure
Proverbs 15:19
The way of the righteous is made plain.
Proverbs 15:33
The fear of the LORD is the instruction of wisdom.
Proverbs 18:5
It is not good to ... overthrow the righteous in judgment.
Proverbs 18:10
The name of the LORD is a strong tower: the righteous runneth into it, and is safe.
Proverbs 21:12
The righteous man wisely considereth the house of the wicked.
Proverbs 21:18
The wicked shall be a ransom for the righteous.
Proverbs 21:26
The righteous giveth and spareth not.
Proverbs 23:24
The father of the righteous shall greatly rejoice
Proverbs 24:15
Lay not wait, O wicked man, against the dwelling of the righteous.
Proverbs 25:26
A righteous man falling down before the wicked is as a troubled fountain.
Proverbs 28:1
The righteous are bold as a lion.
Proverbs 29:2
When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice.
Proverbs 29:6
The righteous doth sing and rejoice.
Proverbs 29:7
The righteous considereth the cause of the poor.
Proverbs 29:16
The righteous shall see their fall.
Ecclesiastes 9:1
The righteous, and the wise, and their works, are in the hand of God.
Ecclesiastes 9:2
There is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked.
Isaiah 3:10
Say ye to the righteous, that it shall be well with him.
Isaiah 5:23
The righteousness of the righteous
Isaiah 57:1
The righteous perisheth.
Ezekiel 14:14, 20
Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD.
Ezekiel 23:45
The righteous men, they shall judge them after the manner of adulteresses, and after the manner of women that shed blood; because they are adulteresses, and blood is in their hands.
Ezekiel 33:12
The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression.
Malachi 3:18
Discern between the righteous and the wicked.
Matthew 5:20
Except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 13:17
For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
Matthew 23:35
That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
Matthew 25:37
"Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?"
Matthew 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Luke 1:6
They [Elisabeth and Zechariah] were both righteous before God, walking in the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
Hebrews 11:4
Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous....
James 5:16
The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
2 Peter 2:5
[Noah] a preacher of righteousness
2 Peter 2:7-8
That righteous man [Lot]
Revelation 22:11
He that is righteous, let him be righteous still.

My bad! Since I tried to explain something about religion that doesn't label all members of that faith as morons, I must be wrong. Also since since I sorta defended religion it must also make me a Christian. Thank God you're here tekriter, how could I ever know that every opinion of mine is wrong without you being here. Its good to know that there is only one way to think about these things, much like how Christians treat religion.

Posted by tekriter Have you been out to curse a fig tree yet?

Who needs biblegateway.com when you have Tek? But seriously, the whole idea of being "Christ like" seemed kind of dumb to me. Should we wear sandals and robes and grow a beard? I had one for a while for my Halloween costume, but my wife made me shave it off. Too ticklish. Or should we be martyrs? Again, I don't think this is a good idea. Like Patton said "no poor bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. You win a war by making the other poor bastard die for his." A better thing to do would be to follow Jesus' philosophy. But I guess that doesn't roll of the tongue as well.

And nobody fucks with Da Jesus!

i'm so sick of god and its minions i could puke in my soup.
if it's not jehovah witnesses banging on your door, it's the fucking mormons. if it ain't them, its fucking catholic/baptists/protestants/evangelical poo flingers and nose pickers. LEAVE ME THE FUCK ALONE WITH YOUR BULLSHIT.

NEVER WAS A GOD
NEVER WILL BE A GOD

fuck off.

you know what the bible is?
a 1000page infomercial selling a product.

you know what makes a good person? you.
you're either a fucking asshole or a non-fucking asshole. It's up to you to choose who you want to be and what consequences you want to deal with. how the hell can someone live their life around a book written by goat fuckers and ignorant pre-science age sandal-wearing whackaloons?

me, i am a fucking asshole. I enjoy being a fucking asshole and will continue to be a fucking asshole until the day my ugly fat body gives out. I have made that choice and will stand by that choice... not because the debbil made me do it, but because I enjoy being a fucking asshole.

you know what the bible is good for?
holding a table (or other furniture) on the crook
dropping on people
using to trip people up.
emergency t.p.

So, Sam is apparently on the "always in a state of sin" side of things.

Posted by Samurai NEVER WAS A GOD NEVER WILL BE A GOD fuck off.

You really don't seem to understand the idea of personal beliefs, do you?

i was in a pissy mood and wasn't feeling real tolerant at that moment.
i've moved on since. i always get warm and fuzzy after I masturbate.

Posted by Samurai i was in a pissy mood and wasn't feeling real tolerant at that moment. i've moved on since. i always get warm and fuzzy after I masturbate.

All this religious talk turns you on.

Speaking of which, did you know there was a Mormon missionary calendar? Yes, THAT kind of calendar!

Posted by Samurai i always get warm and fuzzy after I masturbate.

I usually get kind of dizzy and can't eat anything for a bit.

Anyway...