Posted by Lexi I feel like a lot of the controversy stemming from this whole issue is that people don't see mental illnesses the same way they regard physical illnesses. If this were some sort of neurological disease in which he had no control over his own body, everyone would sympathize with him. He has a severe mental illness, which isn't any less serious than multiple sclerosis or HIV or cancer. What he did was appalling, disgusting and shocking, but he was at the mercy of what his mind was telling him. It's sad that an innocent man died as a result of Li's terrible illness, but you can't blame a man who is unable to correctly perceive reality as you and I know it. That being said, I don't think it's right to put him to death any more than you would euthanize someone with HIV. He requires medication, counseling and strict supervision. If the nursing staff and doctors are ensuring that he is taking his medication and is actively participating in other treatments, I think it's fair that he be able to have some shred of a normal life. He isn't a cold-blooded, manipulative serial killer who did it for fun. He feared for his life because his own mind told him so. The incident is probably as traumatic for him as it was for anybody else who witnessed the act.

so... all is forgiven as long as he takes his pills?

Posted by Samurai so... all is forgiven as long as he takes his pills?

I don't think it's forgiven, but if he's not in control of his own actions, how can you hold him responsible? How is that fair?

Posted by splumer I don't think it's forgiven, but if he's not in control of his own actions, how can you hold him responsible? How is that fair?

it was just such an awful event, how can you not hold him responsible?

Posted by Lexi I feel like a lot of the controversy stemming from this whole issue is that people don't see mental illnesses the same way they regard physical illnesses. If this were some sort of neurological disease in which he had no control over his own body, everyone would sympathize with him. He has a severe mental illness, which isn't any less serious than multiple sclerosis or HIV or cancer. What he did was appalling, disgusting and shocking, but he was at the mercy of what his mind was telling him. It's sad that an innocent man died as a result of Li's terrible illness, but you can't blame a man who is unable to correctly perceive reality as you and I know it. That being said, I don't think it's right to put him to death any more than you would euthanize someone with HIV. He requires medication, counseling and strict supervision. If the nursing staff and doctors are ensuring that he is taking his medication and is actively participating in other treatments, I think it's fair that he be able to have some shred of a normal life. He isn't a cold-blooded, manipulative serial killer who did it for fun. He feared for his life because his own mind told him so. The incident is probably as traumatic for him as it was for anybody else who witnessed the act.

HI LEXI

Spot on.

ALSO: Canada doesn't have the death penalty. This discussion is moot.

Posted by KublaKhan HI LEXI Spot on. ALSO: Canada doesn't have the death penalty. This discussion is moot.

oh bullshit.
what if it was your relative that was hacked up? would you be so goddamn cold and clinical then or would be clamboring for this motherfuckers' head on a stick?

Posted by Samurai oh bullshit. what if it was your relative that was hacked up? would you be so goddamn cold and clinical then or would be clamboring for this motherfuckers' head on a stick?

I would absolutely be horrified, and would want justice. No doubt about it.

Justice, in this SPECIFIC case, would mean a lifetime under intense psychiatric care.

I mean seriously...does this guy's story seem average to you? Does this guy's story sound like anything you've ever heard before? It's not like he snatched some 8 year old off the playground, fucked her savagely, killed her and then stashed her body in the woods. It's not like he fucked his boyfriend with an icepick, made a movie of the whole thing, then hopped a plane to Europe hoping to disappear forever. It's not like he plucked 60 hookers off the shitty end of town, took them back to his pig farm and then turned them into breakfast sausage links.

Dude went total bonkers.

I absolutely feel for this kid's family, but they are fucking wrong about their revenge shit. This guy Li is batshit crazy like only batshit crazy can be. Dude needs serious help, not death at the end of the needle.

Also, if you've ever met someone who's severely schizophrenic, you'll realize that without medication and care they are completely, abso-fucking-lutely out of touch with reality. Sometimes they don't know who they are, where they are or have memory lapses. They believe constantly that their lives are in immediate danger. This poor man has had to live in panic for years, incessantly listening to a voice that doesn't exist tell him things that aren't true.

Now tell me that you wouldn't, after all that, end up doing something on the far end of fucking crazy.

Posted by Lexi Also, if you've ever met someone who's severely schizophrenic, you'll realize that without medication and care they are completely, abso-fucking-lutely out of touch with reality. Sometimes they don't know who they are, where they are or have memory lapses. They believe constantly that their lives are in immediate danger. This poor man has had to live in panic for years, incessantly listening to a voice that doesn't exist tell him things that aren't true. Now tell me that you wouldn't, after all that, end up doing something on the far end of fucking crazy.

Yeah, getting to know someone with serious mental health issues is rather enlightening. I wasn't extremely close to them, but I have worked in a mental ward and gotten fairly friendly with people with schizophrenia, hyper-mania, and multiple personality disorder. The world is a little different for them.

Posted by Samurai oh bullshit. what if it was your relative that was hacked up? would you be so goddamn cold and clinical then or would be clamboring for this motherfuckers' head on a stick?

If a bear attacked someone, do you hold the bear personally responsible? The bear is following its nature, just like the perpetrator. The perp's nature is fucked up, sure, and that's a reason to keep him locked up, but I don't see how killing him does any good.

Posted by splumer If a bear attacked someone, do you hold the bear personally responsible? The bear is following its nature, just like the perpetrator. The perp's nature is fucked up, sure, and that's a reason to keep him locked up, but I don't see how killing him does any good.

Nope. The bear is a bear and is behaving as a bear should. The schizophrenic is a human individual with a very serious brain chemistry disorder, which might cause the schizophrenic to believe that s/he is a bear, and should behave as a bear should.

Or Messenger of God sent to destroy a demon.

Posted by splumer If a bear attacked someone, do you hold the bear personally responsible? The bear is following its nature, just like the perpetrator. The perp's nature is fucked up, sure, and that's a reason to keep him locked up, but I don't see how killing him does any good.

There is not a single scenario where said bear would not be tracked and destroyed.

just sayin.

Posted by HagensborgViking There is not a single scenario where said bear would not be tracked and destroyed. just sayin.

Upon further reflection, I think the bear analogy was wrong. The bear behaved according to its nature, and the psycho person behaved... well, according to his nature, but not in the way he should.

Posted by splumer Upon further reflection, I think the bear analogy was wrong. The bear behaved according to its nature, and the psycho person behaved... well, according to his nature, but not in the way he should.

Is this psycho as in psychopath, or is it psycho as in psychotic? There's a difference.

Posted by KublaKhan Is this psycho as in psychopath, or is it psycho as in psychotic? There's a difference.

Psycho as in "person who decapitated his friend because he thought he was a space alien." You fill in the blanks.

Posted by splumer Psycho as in "person who decapitated his friend because he thought he was a space alien."

It wasn't his friend, just a random bus passenger that was sitting next to him. Sorry for the nitpick.

Posted by HarvestmanMan It wasn't his friend, just a random bus passenger that was sitting next to him. Sorry for the nitpick.

Actually it's a very important nitpick. The fact he picked some guy sleeping on his bus, a guy I don't believe he had ever met before, as his "space alien" that had to be killed because God said so is really important.

What if he had picked an 8-year old girl off the playground?
What if he did pick someone he was in a relationship with?
What if he was sneaky about it and left a string of 60 corpses?

Being a schizophrenic with paranoid delusions is no less dangerous to the people around you than your typical psychopath. this guy didn't kill for profit, pleasure, or over some perceived slight. He killed, disassembled, and ate parts of another person because something in his brain told him to. In a way I might feel safer with the psychopath. At least they (usually) have a reason, even if it's a depraved one.

Lock him up. Forever. Because do YOU want to be the one that let him go when his meds stop keeping the voice in his head quiet?

Posted by underdark Actually it's a very important nitpick. The fact he picked some guy sleeping on his bus, a guy I don't believe he had ever met before, as his "space alien" that had to be killed because God said so is really important.

Nope.

Posted by underdark What if he had picked an 8-year old girl off the playground? What if he did pick someone he was in a relationship with?

Then those people would have died.

Posted by underdark What if he was sneaky about it and left a string of 60 corpses? Being a schizophrenic with paranoid delusions is no less dangerous to the people around you than your typical psychopath.

Nope. And since this post is about nitpicking, I will. A schizophrenic will not be sneaky about it in a competent way. Also, when you mention "psychopath" you probably mean "sociopath," who is the kind of person that might kill for no significant reason because they have no regard for common accepted human values and standards of behavior, while "psychopath" more accurately refers to character traits common to politicians and CEO's.

Posted by underdark this guy didn't kill for profit, pleasure, or over some perceived slight. He killed, disassembled, and ate parts of another person because something in his brain told him to. In a way I might feel safer with the psychopath. At least they (usually) have a reason, even if it's a depraved one.

He did kill for a reason - a tremendously important and significant reason in his evaluation of it. In contrast, sociopaths have been known to kill people because they wondered for just a moment what someone would look like if they were dead.

Posted by underdark Lock him up. Forever. Because do YOU want to be the one that let him go when his meds stop keeping the voice in his head quiet?

Lock up all black people too, because do YOU want to be the person they steal from when they run out of chicken and watermelon?

Posted by MutantMandias Lock up all black people too, because do YOU want to be the person they steal from when they run out of chicken and watermelon?

You didn't mention 'high on crack' and/or 'raping your teenaged daughters.'

Posted by MutantMandias Nope.

Yes

Posted by MutantMandias Then those people would have died.

I just used those as examples since they were mentioned in a previous post.

Posted by MutantMandias Nope. And since this post is about nitpicking, I will. A schizophrenic will not be sneaky about it in a competent way. Also, when you mention "psychopath" you probably mean "sociopath," who is the kind of person that might kill for no significant reason because they have no regard for common accepted human values and standards of behavior, while "psychopath" more accurately refers to character traits common to politicians and CEO's.

Again, picked the example from a previous post. And "megalomaniacal, greedy, narcissistic, self centered dildo" seems to be a much better description of your typical Fortune 500 CEO or high-level pol, but that's a personal opinion.

Posted by MutantMandias He did kill for a reason - a tremendously important and significant reason in his evaluation of it. In contrast, sociopaths have been known to kill people because they wondered for just a moment what someone would look like if they were dead.

"I wonder what she'd look like dead."-Edmund Kemper, serial killer
"God said he was a space alien and I had to kill him."-Vince Weiguang Li, schizophrenic murderer
Help me out here...which of these statements is LESS crazy?

Posted by MutantMandias Lock up all black people too, because do YOU want to be the person they steal from when they run out of chicken and watermelon?

Hmmm....nah. Let's try locking up thieves when they steal (race not withstanding) and murderers when they murder.
And that last bit...I got your point, but that was really beneath you.

Posted by underdark "I wonder what she'd look like dead."-Edmund Kemper, serial killer "God said he was a space alien and I had to kill him."-Vince Weiguang Li, schizophrenic murderer Help me out here...which of these statements is LESS crazy?

Well, crazy is a meaningless term, but I would say that it is not at all unusual to wonder what someone would look like when they are dead. It is decidedly unusual to follow up on that thought by killing someone.

However, a person believing that God has told them to kill someone for a nonsensical reason, and the person following up by killing people, is historically a pretty common occurrence, and many people consider this just good clean religion.

Posted by underdark Hmmm....nah. Let's try locking up thieves when they steal (race not withstanding) and murderers when they murder. And that last bit...I got your point, but that was really beneath you.

That's cute.