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UER Forum > Private Boards Index > Vertical Ropework, Rappelling and SRT > PSA's (Viewed 2524 times)
AdventureDog 


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PSA's
< on 9/3/2012 7:10 PM >
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Post your random tidbits of safety here.

I'll start,

http://www.youtube...re=player_embedded




www.detroit-madness.com
secretdestroyers 


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Re: PSA's
< Reply # 1 on 9/4/2012 12:08 AM >
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"Daisy Chains are variable length tie-offs designed to support body weight ONLY. DO NOT use them as part of your belay or protection system. They are NOT designed to hold falls"




http://www.blackdi...gers-en-glbl-en-us

if you're going to use one add that extra loop.
http://vimeo.com/14679471#at=0

SD





F this I"m going exploring!
DJ Craig 

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Re: PSA's
< Reply # 2 on 9/4/2012 4:06 AM >
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Here's a few of my top safety things that I like to harp on:

1. When you're new, use a rack. A nice, big one. And not a U-rack. Leave other devices out of the picture until you're experienced. And even then, if in doubt, use the rack.

2. Always have a QAS (Quick Attachment Safety) when rappelling. This is any device that you can very quickly and easily use to anchor yourself into the rope. Typically a loaded ascender that attaches to your harness's belay loop with a short loop of webbing, with the ascender connected to one of your harness's utility loops using a non-locking biner. It should be on the opposite side to your break hand if possible.

3. Realize that prusik belays on rappel simply add more complexity to the system, and do nothing to help you in an actual accident. They provide a false sense of security. In real life situations, you are never going to let go of that prusik fast enough when something goes wrong. Instead, you're going to cling to it, and if you ever do finally let go of it, you'll shock-load the system. What is far more likely to happen is that you'll load that prusik by accident while rappelling, and then have to do a change-over to ascent, and back to rappel again. The added complexity is more likely to cause an accident than the prusik is to prevent one.

4. If you don't have the gear and knowledge to safely switch to rappel, then you shouldn't be ascending. If you don't have the gear and knowledge to safely switch to ascent, then you shouldn't be rappelling.




"You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose. You're on your own. And you know what you know. And YOU are the one who'll decide where to go..." -Dr. Suess
Abby Normal 


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Re: PSA's
< Reply # 3 on 9/9/2012 4:52 AM >
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I have a few thoughts that parallel some of the previous points, but still bear mentioning.

1 - Practice BEFORE you head out exploring. In the middle of an explore is not the time to tell your buddies that you have never actually rappelled or ascended before. Continue to practice until you can hook up your gear without having to think exactly how it works. After a long day of exploring, a tired mind can make you think you have everything just right when in fact you don't.

2 - Practice changeovers from descending to ascending, and ascending to descending while free hanging on the rope. It's not rocket science and some of the books have good explanations, but it's completely different when you are hanging from a rope trying to unweight your ascender so you can remove it and start your rappel. I practice in a big tree in my back yard.

3 - Learn the basic knots and practice until you can tie them correctly every time. You shouldn't have to count on someone else to tie all the knots. Also, you should watch to make certain that your exploring buddies tie theirs correctly.

4 - Learn the basics of rigging and anchors. Even if you aren't responsible for setting the anchors and getting everything ready, you may need to step in if there is an emergency. Watch the guys who rig the rope. Ask questions.

5 - When gearing up, keep an eye on your buddies as they gear up. Any of us can get tired or in a hurry and not get our gear set up right. Same when someone is getting on rope to ascend or descend. Watch as they hook in to make certain that everything is correct. Ask them to do the same for you.

I know that all of this is basic common sense stuff, but it never hurts to repeat it.

Abby Normal



[last edit 9/9/2012 4:54 AM by Abby Normal - edited 2 times]

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uLiveAndYouBurn 


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Re: PSA's
< Reply # 4 on 9/15/2012 9:40 AM >
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Posted by DJ Craig

3. Realize that prusik belays on rappel simply add more complexity to the system, and do nothing to help you in an actual accident. They provide a false sense of security. In real life situations, you are never going to let go of that prusik fast enough when something goes wrong. Instead, you're going to cling to it, and if you ever do finally let go of it, you'll shock-load the system. What is far more likely to happen is that you'll load that prusik by accident while rappelling, and then have to do a change-over to ascent, and back to rappel again. The added complexity is more likely to cause an accident than the prusik is to prevent one.




Not trying to start an argument but just point out that this is point of debate for a lot of climbers out there.




"Aint nothin' to it but to do it"
Therrin 

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Re: PSA's
< Reply # 5 on 1/13/2013 12:08 PM >
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Posted by DJ Craig
Here's a few of my top safety things that I like to harp on:

1. When you're new, use a rack. A nice, big one. And not a U-rack. Leave other devices out of the picture until you're experienced. And even then, if in doubt, use the rack.


A U-shaped rack is actually stronger than an eyelet-bent rack. I have no idea why you wouldn't want to use a U-shaped rack. They are FAR stronger.

2. Always have a QAS (Quick Attachment Safety) when rappelling. This is any device that you can very quickly and easily use to anchor yourself into the rope. Typically a loaded ascender that attaches to your harness's belay loop with a short loop of webbing, with the ascender connected to one of your harness's utility loops using a non-locking biner. It should be on the opposite side to your break hand if possible.


Webbing has been found to lock-up in devices. If you are going to use such a device as a fail-safe method, you should use one constructed of a dyanmic-type rope.

3. Realize that prusik belays on rappel simply add more complexity to the system, and do nothing to help you in an actual accident. They provide a false sense of security. In real life situations, you are never going to let go of that prussik fast enough when something goes wrong. Instead, you're going to cling to it, and if you ever do finally let go of it, you'll shock-load the system. What is far more likely to happen is that you'll load that prussik by accident while rappelling, and then have to do a change-over to ascent, and back to rappel again. The added complexity is more likely to cause an accident than the prussik is to prevent one.


This is ABSOLUTELY TRUE!!!!
Learn to rappel without using a prussik backup. When you are using someone else's rope (as Robk700 was) you will also cause an amazing amount of heat on the rope, due to friction. That can cause the outer sheath on the rope to glaze over, which can cause the owner of the rope a considerable amount of frustration. Trust me on this.

4. If you don't have the gear and knowledge to safely switch to rappel, then you shouldn't be ascending. If you don't have the gear and knowledge to safely switch to ascent, then you shouldn't be rappelling.


This is only true when rappelling simple descents where you would have no reason to re-ascend the line. Or where the person at the bottom would not be able to descend you in a "fireman's belay" safely to that ground.




Give a person a match and they'll be warm for a minute, but light them on fire and they'll be warm for the rest of their life. =)
uLiveAndYouBurn 


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Re: PSA's
< Reply # 6 on 2/7/2013 7:14 AM >
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Hair or clothing can still get caught in the rappel device on a "simple" descent. The only way to solve a locked up descent device is to take the weight off it, so some type of ascending rig has to be set up.





"Aint nothin' to it but to do it"
Therrin 

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Re: PSA's
< Reply # 7 on 2/7/2013 11:28 AM >
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TRUTH!

It can be overcome for short-ish descents with somewhat inexperience folks though.

If a halved-rope leaves you enough on one leg to reach the ground, you can set a descender (rack) at the anchor point, cleated off at the half-way point.

If an issue occurs, the more experienced person up above can simply uncleat the rope and lower the person the remaining distance to the ground.


This is a typical setup I use when training folks; can also be used in-the-field if you think it might be handy.

I used this system quite a bit doing hazardous dismantling tree work so that if there was an accident or I became unconscious or injured while at-heights, a ground worker could lower me to the ground with little trouble.

(anyone who thinks about this will realize that if you were still roped to the tree this would be impossible, but when you're cutting sections and you believe that what you're anchored to is somewhat likely to break out, you can detach yourself from the tree before you make a cut, so as to let you swing free on your safety line should something happen.)




Give a person a match and they'll be warm for a minute, but light them on fire and they'll be warm for the rest of their life. =)
uLiveAndYouBurn 


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Re: PSA's
< Reply # 8 on 2/7/2013 11:34 AM >
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Thats a good idea.




"Aint nothin' to it but to do it"
DJ Craig 

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Re: PSA's
< Reply # 9 on 2/10/2013 5:47 PM >
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Posted by Therrin
A U-shaped rack is actually stronger than an eyelet-bent rack. I have no idea why you wouldn't want to use a U-shaped rack. They are FAR stronger.


The reason I don't like U-racks is because it's too difficult to add and remove bars while rappelling, especially on a heavy rope. Also, every U-rack I've ever seen has been a cheap, crappy micro-rack. Granted, I have limited experience with them.



[last edit 2/10/2013 5:50 PM by DJ Craig - edited 1 times]

"You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose. You're on your own. And you know what you know. And YOU are the one who'll decide where to go..." -Dr. Suess
Abby Normal 


Location: Las Vegas
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Total Likes: 843 likes




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Re: PSA's
< Reply # 10 on 2/10/2013 10:11 PM >
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Posted by DJ Craig


The reason I don't like U-racks is because it's too difficult to add and remove bars while rappelling, especially on a heavy rope. Also, every U-rack I've ever seen has been a cheap, crappy micro-rack. Granted, I have limited experience with them.


I use one of those "cheap, crappy micro-racks" and it works just fine for me. The nice thing about the climbing market today, as opposed to yesteryear, is that there are so many different choices available. You can try different devices and find the one that fits your style.

Years ago we were pretty much stuck with brake bars that fit on carabiner gates. I remember everyone getting all excited when they saw their first figure eight. Yeah, I'm that old. :-/

Abby Normal



[last edit 2/10/2013 10:13 PM by Abby Normal - edited 1 times]

"Government is not a solution to our problem, government is the problem." Ronald Reagan
UER Forum > Private Boards Index > Vertical Ropework, Rappelling and SRT > PSA's (Viewed 2524 times)


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