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UER Forum > Private Boards Index > Religious Discussion > What is the point? (Viewed 6248 times)
Harvestman 


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What is the point?
< on 11/24/2012 4:49 AM >
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So, this one time I was thinking about making a new thread in the religion forum...

Is it possible to take the Christian Bible completely literally, and follow everything it says? Perhaps.
Is it practical? Absolutely not.
I think everyone can agree on those two things.

Some believe that if they follow every statute set forth by the Bible, then they're going to heaven. Does this imply that those who don't do that will not go to heaven?

Others believe that if they follow the "important" statutes set forth by the Bible, then up to the Glory Land they will go. What does this say about the people who obey every small detail? Who determines what's important and what isn't - is it whatever the pastor says to obey? Is it personal belief?

Still others don't go by the book (so to speak) at all, and believe they're going to eat some pie in the sky. How do they look at those who do go by the Bible? Are those people seen as doing things the hard way and ending up with the same result?

Finally, what if there isn't a heaven after all? This is a question I've really been grappling with myself, even though I know I'll never find the answer. What could possibly lie in the afterlife, if it exists? Heaven or hell? Reincarnation? Purgatory? Or absolute nothingness? What, exactly, is the point of trying to find an answer that doesn't exist in this world?

Sorry for the large post, I just needed to get some stuff out of my noggin.





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Samurai 

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Re: What is the point?
< Reply # 1 on 11/24/2012 5:00 AM >
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i think you're asking what the nature of belief is. not a bad question, one i think everyone should ask:

what do you believe in?

me personally, i only have one supernatural superstitious belief... Karma. yep, i am a firm believer that you put nasty negative energy and make it your life's mission to fuck with people, that shit is going to come back at you tenfold.

i suppose that is the one hypocrisy that i hold, but damn if it isn't a hoot when fuckers get their just desserts.




MutantMandias 

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Re: What is the point?
< Reply # 2 on 11/24/2012 5:17 AM >
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Why do anything that the Bible says? Who told you that you're supposed to?

It sure wasn't God who told you to listen to the Bible, since not even the Bible claims to have any message from Him for way more than a thousand years before the Bible even existed.




[last edit 11/24/2012 5:18 AM by MutantMandias - edited 1 times]

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MonkeyPunchBaby 


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Re: What is the point?
< Reply # 3 on 11/24/2012 1:05 PM >
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I read this guys other book, my life as an experiment, and was intrigued by this one. He is very funny and I've really enjoyed everything I have read by him.

http://www.ajjacobs.com/books/yolb.asp

as for the big question you asked. I don't believe in the bible or hell. God I don't think exist. If god does exist he wouldn't send people to hell. The opposite of love is not hate, its apathy. If you have some how wronged god, why would he devote the time and energy to punish you forever? That seems awfully petty. If I believed in god, I would be more scared of my soul and afterlife just not happening. When I die, nothing. No glory of god, no heaven, no happiness. You just disappear and no one gets to see you. That would give me far more motivation to do what is right than the thought of hell.

I do believe in ghosts though. My stance has been, that if I can prove ghost are real, then I will know there is some sort of afterlife. I used to ghost hunt for years, and there are only two things I was unsure about. When i did investigations my goal was to debunk everything, as opposed to a lot of people who want to prove everything is a ghost.

I also believe that if god exists, he is not an asshole. I dont see god in heaven telling folks they are going to hell for not being in his fan club. if Ghandi can't get into heaven, then no one can.



[last edit 11/24/2012 2:06 PM by MonkeyPunchBaby - edited 2 times]

Harvestman 


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Re: What is the point?
< Reply # 4 on 11/24/2012 4:47 PM >
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Posted by MutantMandias
Why do anything that the Bible says? Who told you that you're supposed to?


Everyone who's ever mentioned the Ten Commandments to me, for instance.




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MutantMandias 

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Re: What is the point?
< Reply # 5 on 11/24/2012 11:58 PM >
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Oh good. You follow the Ten Commandments? The ones where God tells people to be distrustful of foreigners and to smash their temples, and to sacrifice your firstborn male children?


Exodus 34:8-26

8 Moses bowed to the ground at once and worshiped. 9 “Lord,” he said, “if I have found favor in your eyes, then let the Lord go with us. Although this is a stiff-necked people, forgive our wickedness and our sin, and take us as your inheritance.”

10 Then the Lord said: “I am making a covenant with you. Before all your people I will do wonders never before done in any nation in all the world. The people you live among will see how awesome is the work that I, the Lord, will do for you. 11 Obey what I command you today. I will drive out before you the Amorites, Canaanites, Hittites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites. 12 Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land where you are going, or they will be a snare among you. 13 Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones and cut down their Asherah poles. 14 Do not worship any other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.

15 “Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land; for when they prostitute themselves to their gods and sacrifice to them, they will invite you and you will eat their sacrifices. 16 And when you choose some of their daughters as wives for your sons and those daughters prostitute themselves to their gods, they will lead your sons to do the same.

17 “Do not make any idols.

18 “Celebrate the Festival of Unleavened Bread. For seven days eat bread made without yeast, as I commanded you. Do this at the appointed time in the month of Aviv, for in that month you came out of Egypt.

19 “The first offspring of every womb belongs to me, including all the firstborn males of your livestock, whether from herd or flock. 20 Redeem the firstborn donkey with a lamb, but if you do not redeem it, break its neck. Redeem all your firstborn sons.

“No one is to appear before me empty-handed.

21 “Six days you shall labor, but on the seventh day you shall rest; even during the plowing season and harvest you must rest.

22 “Celebrate the Festival of Weeks with the firstfruits of the wheat harvest, and the Festival of Ingathering at the turn of the year. 23 Three times a year all your men are to appear before the Sovereign Lord, the God of Israel. 24 I will drive out nations before you and enlarge your territory, and no one will covet your land when you go up three times each year to appear before the Lord your God.

25 “Do not offer the blood of a sacrifice to me along with anything containing yeast, and do not let any of the sacrifice from the Passover Festival remain until morning.

26 “Bring the best of the firstfruits of your soil to the house of the Lord your God.

“Do not cook a young goat in its mother’s milk.”





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MonkeyPunchBaby 


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Re: What is the point?
< Reply # 6 on 11/25/2012 12:10 AM >
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Those are awfully different form the ones I know:

And God spoke all these words, saying,

I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.

1. You shall have no other gods before me.

2. You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.

3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.

4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

5. Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land that the Lord your God is giving you.

6. You shall not murder.

7. You shall not commit adultery.

8. You shall not steal.

9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

10. You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his male servant, or his female servant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor's.




MutantMandias 

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Re: What is the point?
< Reply # 7 on 11/25/2012 12:50 AM >
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Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby
Those are awfully different form the ones I know:



Yeah, read it again. That was Moses just talking shit. He was probably drunk. I mean, he had already known that the people were making idols, but then decided to act all pissed off about it and smash the tablets (the most holy objects of all time, having just been written on by God His Own Damn Self). He was either drunk or insane.

In Exodus, we get the real, God-written Ten Commandments, so don't cook a young goat in its mother’s milk, or you'll go straight to Hell.



[last edit 11/25/2012 12:51 AM by MutantMandias - edited 1 times]

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Harvestman 


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Re: What is the point?
< Reply # 8 on 11/25/2012 4:09 AM >
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Posted by MutantMandias
Oh good. You follow the Ten Commandments? The ones where God tells people to be distrustful of foreigners and to smash their temples, and to sacrifice your firstborn male children?


No, I don't follow them. That's where the part about going by the book came from.

For the record, I've been taught (programmed?) to follow the ones that MPB posted, probably because they're one hell of a lot easier to follow. Breaking lambs' necks isn't exactly practical any more.




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Samurai 

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Re: What is the point?
< Reply # 9 on 11/25/2012 4:35 AM >
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MonkeyPunchBaby 


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Re: What is the point?
< Reply # 10 on 11/25/2012 4:49 AM >
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For you atheist that are more hateful than I am, why is it so hard for you to admit that the bible and religion has some good in it? why do you hate religion so god damn much? I am an atheist because I dont believe in god and I dont believe the bible can used to base your life around. You all seem to be atheist because you hate religion for no reason because of a couple of whackjobs.




Samurai 

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Re: What is the point?
< Reply # 11 on 11/25/2012 4:56 AM >
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Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby
why do you hate religion so god damn much?


BECAUSE ITS A FUCKING LIE. ALL OF IT. IT'S BULLSHIT. IT'S THE ORIGINAL BULLSHIT. IT'S THE FIRST AND BEST ATTEMPT AT DECEPTIVE SALES! IT'S A FUCKING USED CAR ON FOUR BALD TIRES! IT'S CRAP!

that answer your goddamn question?




MonkeyPunchBaby 


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Re: What is the point?
< Reply # 12 on 11/25/2012 5:02 AM >
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So in your mind ghandi and Jesus and Mohammed and sidartha are just bullshit peddlers and never said anything good or worthwhile? So you just get all pissy with those who have faith?




Samurai 

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Re: What is the point?
< Reply # 13 on 11/25/2012 5:05 AM >
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Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby
So in your mind ghandi and Jesus and Mohammed and sidartha are just bullshit peddlers and never said anything good or worthwhile? So you just get all pissy with those who have faith?


Jesus and Mohammed never existed.
Ghandi? well, he had his moments.

there is nothing you can say or do to ever get me to change my mind about the big fat pile of bullshit that is god, organized religion or all the accoutrements that go with it.




MonkeyPunchBaby 


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Re: What is the point?
< Reply # 14 on 11/25/2012 5:11 AM >
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Im not asking you to believe in them, just simply acknowledge the fact that religion is not all evil. There is bad in it, just like there is bad in everything. But you can't hate everyone just because they are religious, hate them because they are assholes. You and I are not better than anyone who is religious and they aren't any better than us. I am a better person than Fred Phelps because im not a hateful angry bigot. If you persecute religious folks because of there religion, you are being a bigot as well. I refuse to be so close minded and hateful that anyone could ever think im a bigot.




Samurai 

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Re: What is the point?
< Reply # 15 on 11/25/2012 5:19 AM >
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Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby
Im not asking you to believe in them, just simply acknowledge the fact that religion is not all evil. There is bad in it, just like there is bad in everything. But you can't hate everyone just because they are religious, hate them because they are assholes. You and I are not better than anyone who is religious and they aren't any better than us. I am a better person than Fred Phelps because im not a hateful angry bigot. If you persecute religious folks because of there religion, you are being a bigot as well. I refuse to be so close minded and hateful that anyone could ever think im a bigot.


religion IS evil because it was never and is not about faith and spirituality... It's about control. Men controlling other men to do their bidding. That was the rule 4000 years ago. that's the rule now.





Harvestman 


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Re: What is the point?
< Reply # 16 on 11/25/2012 7:15 AM >
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Posted by Samurai
Men controlling other men to do their bidding.


Or, by religious logic, supernatural deities controlling men to do their bidding.



Monkey, this isn't what this thread is about. I've had too fucking much of arguments about atheists and hating the bible and Samurai why are you such a hateful person and why do you hate religious people and whatnot.

Just this once, for a fucking change, could we NOT let this thread delve into a pissing contest?




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Samurai 

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Re: What is the point?
< Reply # 17 on 11/25/2012 2:49 PM >
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Posted by HarvestmanMan


Or, by religious logic, supernatural deities controlling men to do their bidding.



Monkey, this isn't what this thread is about. I've had too fucking much of arguments about atheists and hating the bible and Samurai why are you such a hateful person and why do you hate religious people and whatnot.

Just this once, for a fucking change, could we NOT let this thread delve into a pissing contest?


i'm not a hateful person.




splumer 


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Re: What is the point?
< Reply # 18 on 11/26/2012 3:28 PM >
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Posted by HarvestmanMan
So, this one time I was thinking about making a new thread in the religion forum...

Is it possible to take the Christian Bible completely literally, and follow everything it says? Perhaps.
Is it practical? Absolutely not.
I think everyone can agree on those two things.

Some believe that if they follow every statute set forth by the Bible, then they're going to heaven. Does this imply that those who don't do that will not go to heaven?



I think the difference of opinion is akin to the question "Do you follow the letter of the law, or the spirit of the law?" If you go 36 in a 35 mph zone, you're violating the letter of the law, but you're not violating the spirit of the law. For the other stuff, I guess you're just not supposed to put goat milk in your goat soup. I, for one, find that commandment very easy to keep.




“We are not going to have the kind of cooperation we need if everyone insists on their own narrow version of reality. … the great divide in the world today … is between people who have the courage to listen and those who are convinced that they already know it all.”

-Madeline Albright
tekriter 


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Re: What is the point?
< Reply # 19 on 11/29/2012 2:27 PM >
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Posted by HarvestmanMan
So, this one time I was thinking about making a new thread in the religion forum...

Is it possible to take the Christian Bible completely literally, and follow everything it says? Perhaps.
Is it practical? Absolutely not.
I think everyone can agree on those two things.

Some believe that if they follow every statute set forth by the Bible, then they're going to heaven. Does this imply that those who don't do that will not go to heaven?


This was covered in part by Dr.Laura. Still makes me giggle.

http://www.uer.ca/...d=1&threadid=80659


As for the rest, there is simply no good reason to believe any of the assertions of the "faithful". You cannot prove there is no heaven, however thee is no evidence that points to the existence of heaven. Nothing - except wishful thinking that you will survive your own death and meet your dead relatives.

The bible, in whatever translation you choose, is about as flawed and hateful as any other book you can name. Perhaps worse, since so many people profess to live by it or kill in the name of it.




It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so, and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting all education to seize early the minds of the young, and by killing, locking up, or driving underground all heretics. Robert A. Heinlen
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