Posted by Aleksandar That is really amazing that you have seen evidence supporting Krauss' ideas about "before". I think even Krauss will be amazed, since no such evidences yet exist. Absolutely, as soon as you display the evidences for your belief in an outside-time, outside-space, mass-less, energy-less, information-dense and fundamentally creative quantum state. Sweet. You must not believe your own hypothesis either. But hey, Rousseau is talking about you too buddy.

just a small aside question, are you this arrogant and condescending in person?

Posted by Samurai just a small aside question, are you this arrogant and condescending in person?

this board in general has been arrogant and condescending since about 2008-2009.

i've seen civility from people in here with a whole spectrum of beliefs, and all the insulting, arrogant and condescending things you (personally you) and others had to say to them in return because they didn't fall in behind your brand of aggressive hardline atheism. i don't like bullies, and bullies need beating down.

if you want everyone to play nice from here on, i'm all for that. i know that's not what you mean though. you just don't like how hot the fire is, now that you're standing in it instead of a religi-person.

Posted by Aleksandar you just don't like how hot the fire is, now that you're standing in it instead of a religi-person.

I'm pretty sure he's not feeling any heat.

Posted by MutantMandias I'm pretty sure he's not feeling any heat.

nor am i really caring... just thought i would ask.

Posted by Aleksandar That is really amazing that you have seen evidence supporting Krauss' ideas about "before". I think even Krauss will be amazed, since no such evidences yet exist.

Point taken. His book was more inference than specific evidence.

Sweet. You must not believe your own hypothesis either. But hey, Rousseau is talking about you too buddy.

True, but I don't think I desire a godless origin of the universe. It doesn't matter to me one way or the other. What matters is what is true.

Posted by splumer What matters is what is true.

Meh, that's not my highest concern personally. It should be science's highest concern, but for me, I just want want works. Belief in gods does not work for me.

I'm late to this. Sorry.

#1-Supernatural belief is nothing but an expressed hypothesis about how the universe works.

#2-No supernatural hypothesis has ever displaced a scientifically tested one.

#3-In situations where a supernatural hypothesis has made testable claims, the failure rate for these claims when subject to rigorous scientific testing is 100%.

#4-The failure of supernatural belief systems to agree on almost anything, even internally, save in the most expansive terms tends to lend support to the idea that they are not perceiving any existent beings or phenomena.

These four points are sufficient in themselves to convince me that there is no good evidence to support any supernatural hypothesis for any being, system, or situation in the world at this time. If good evidence for the supernatural appears in the future I am willing to revisit my hypothesis.

That, in my humble opinion, makes me an atheist.

Well said.