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UER Forum > Private Boards Index > Society > Guns in society. (Viewed 2285 times)
jeepdave 


Location: Anderson, SC
Gender: Male
Total Likes: 1303 likes


It's also a gun.

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Guns in society.
< on 2/26/2013 5:53 PM >
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Good discussion fodder.




Ezekiel 25:17
MutantMandias 

Perverse and Often Baffling


Location: Atlanta, GA
Gender: Male
Total Likes: 268 likes


Are you a reporter? Contact me for a UE interview! Also not averse to the the idea of group/anal.

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Re: Guns in society.
< Reply # 1 on 2/26/2013 5:58 PM >
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Excellent point. When children are violently murdered, it is just a tiny, virtually insignificant percentage of the number of guns that exist.

The only logical conclusion is that either their lives are also insignificant, so nothing should change, or we could, as a society, decide to limit the amount of guns that are in the wild, which would have a strong effect of reducing the number of bloody children's bodies.

And it also does an excellent job of showing how useless all of those guns actually are in preventing the slaughter of children.




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mutantMandias is something more than human, more than a computer. mutantMandias is a murderously intelligent, sensually self-programmed, non-being
jeepdave 


Location: Anderson, SC
Gender: Male
Total Likes: 1303 likes


It's also a gun.

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Re: Guns in society.
< Reply # 2 on 2/26/2013 6:34 PM >
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Posted by MutantMandias
Excellent point. When children are violently murdered, it is just a tiny, virtually insignificant percentage of the number of guns that exist.

The only logical conclusion is that either their lives are also insignificant, so nothing should change, or we could, as a society, decide to limit the amount of guns that are in the wild, which would have a strong effect of reducing the number of bloody children's bodies.

And it also does an excellent job of showing how useless all of those guns actually are in preventing the slaughter of children.


You seem to think only children are victims of gun violence. Also if all these guns are in the wild how do you expect to reduce their numbers? Since so few end up killing other people doesn't seem ridiculous to blame an inanimate object for all this violence? An object designed to kill that actually kills far fewer than inanimate objects not designed to kill such as automobiles? Could the answer be to leave the guns alone and concentrate on the root cause of gun violence? Or are we simply wanting to do something so we can say we are doing something no matter how ignorant it is?




Ezekiel 25:17
MutantMandias 

Perverse and Often Baffling


Location: Atlanta, GA
Gender: Male
Total Likes: 268 likes


Are you a reporter? Contact me for a UE interview! Also not averse to the the idea of group/anal.

 |  |  | Old Creeper
Re: Guns in society.
< Reply # 3 on 2/26/2013 7:02 PM >
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Posted by jeepdave


You seem to think only children are victims of gun violence.

Obviously I do not think that. Lots of innocent adults are killed too.

Posted by jeepdave
Also if all these guns are in the wild how do you expect to reduce their numbers?

I don't want to come and get your guns. I don't want the government to come and get your guns.

Posted by jeepdave
Since so few end up killing other people doesn't seem ridiculous to blame an inanimate object for all this violence?

Yes, it is ridiculous to blame guns. Guns are not responsible. It is as idiotic to blame guns as it is idiotic to accuse people of blaming guns. No one blames guns.



Posted by jeepdave
Could the answer be to leave the guns alone and concentrate on the root cause of gun violence? Or are we simply wanting to do something so we can say we are doing something no matter how ignorant it is?

What I do want is for people to be less obsessed with guns. That is an inseparable part of the root cause of gun violence. I don't have an answer for how to make society more sane, but if you look at the culture of gun obsession in America, you have to admit that it feeds the unbalanced people who are the problem. The media and other entertainment sources are essentially fiduciarily and legally required by modern corporate theory to exploit that obsession and stoke it.


I don't imagine that you go around showing off weapons like bling. I don't see you as someone who takes pictures of himself in his underwear surrounded by guns and posts in on the internet. You are not part of the problem.




mutantMandias may cause dizziness, sexual nightmares, and sleep crime. ++++ mutantMandias has to return some videotapes ++++ Do not taunt mutantMandias

mutantMandias is something more than human, more than a computer. mutantMandias is a murderously intelligent, sensually self-programmed, non-being
jeepdave 


Location: Anderson, SC
Gender: Male
Total Likes: 1303 likes


It's also a gun.

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Re: Guns in society.
< Reply # 4 on 2/26/2013 7:33 PM >
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Thank you for a reasoned response, but if I'm not part of the problem why would you or anyone support bills and legislation that will restrict me in my hobby? And statistically we are at one of the least violent times in the EARTHS history, even with all these weapons. I think inner city ghetto culture is MUCH more dangerous than Jim Bob teh GUN nut posting pictures of all his guns on face book or Bobby the Rancher who always wears a pistol on his belt.

That culture seems to be the issue along with the sporadic and random "mass shootings" that insane people go off on. Until you can get youths to not want to be "thug life 4 life" and put more effort in dealing with mental illness ( Maybe it's time to bring back the institutions no matter how much of a gray area they are ) we are not going to be able to stop all shootings. And even then, we still won't ever stop all murders. People will ALWAYS kill other people.



[last edit 2/26/2013 7:35 PM by jeepdave - edited 1 times]

Ezekiel 25:17
MutantMandias 

Perverse and Often Baffling


Location: Atlanta, GA
Gender: Male
Total Likes: 268 likes


Are you a reporter? Contact me for a UE interview! Also not averse to the the idea of group/anal.

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Re: Guns in society.
< Reply # 5 on 2/26/2013 9:37 PM >
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Posted by jeepdave
Thank you for a reasoned response, but if I'm not part of the problem why would you or anyone support bills and legislation that will restrict me in my hobby?


How many time do I have to say it? I have never supported any such thing.

Posted by jeepdave
I think inner city ghetto culture is MUCH more dangerous than Jim Bob teh GUN nut posting pictures of all his guns on face book

There is little difference between those two things in the long run.

Posted by jeepdave
That culture seems to be the issue along with the sporadic and random "mass shootings" that insane people go off on. Until you can get youths to not want to be "thug life 4 life" and put more effort in dealing with mental illness ( Maybe it's time to bring back the institutions no matter how much of a gray area they are ) we are not going to be able to stop all shootings. And even then, we still won't ever stop all murders. People will ALWAYS kill other people.

Yup, I'm all on board with everyone having guns. What could possibly go wrong?

So, to deal with the other problems, I think the first rational step towards reducing endemic societal mental illness would be making laws outlawing all religion, which would immediately reduce the toxic levels of hypocrisy and duplicity that cause the cognitive dissonance that some people can only seem to resolve by taking a harmless gun and killing people.




mutantMandias may cause dizziness, sexual nightmares, and sleep crime. ++++ mutantMandias has to return some videotapes ++++ Do not taunt mutantMandias

mutantMandias is something more than human, more than a computer. mutantMandias is a murderously intelligent, sensually self-programmed, non-being
jeepdave 


Location: Anderson, SC
Gender: Male
Total Likes: 1303 likes


It's also a gun.

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Re: Guns in society.
< Reply # 6 on 2/26/2013 10:03 PM >
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MM if you want less guns out there how do you think that goal can be achieved?




Ezekiel 25:17
heinrick 


Location: Cascadia
Gender: Male
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Re: Guns in society.
< Reply # 7 on 2/26/2013 11:05 PM >
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Posted by MutantMandias
And it also does an excellent job of showing how useless all of those guns actually are in preventing the slaughter of children.


You're right, because we'll never know for sure how many of the homicides were later deemed legally justified. The distinction is rarely made in the record/statistics keeping.




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MutantMandias 

Perverse and Often Baffling


Location: Atlanta, GA
Gender: Male
Total Likes: 268 likes


Are you a reporter? Contact me for a UE interview! Also not averse to the the idea of group/anal.

 |  |  | Old Creeper
Re: Guns in society.
< Reply # 8 on 2/27/2013 12:30 AM >
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Posted by jeepdave
MM if you want less guns out there how do you think that goal can be achieved?


Like I said, I'm really not interested in limiting the numbers of guns. My first post used the phrase "we could, as a society, decide to limit the amount of guns," which I think has confused you.

And I'm not proposing anything. This forum is for the discussion of societal issues. It's not like the Politics or Religion forums, where sound, logical proposals to solve the world's problems are developed and enacted for the good of mankind.

Let's look at the car thing, because it is so often brought up. Cars can of course kill people, both accidentally and intentionally. I think intentional car homicides are probably pretty rare... rarer even than the intentional gun homicides. But cars are a lot more widespread and accepted. They are a tool that society has come to rely on, and their primary purpose is not to kill, but that's beside the point for my purposes. Sure they are dangerous, but pretty much everyone accepts their efficacy and usefulness.

So, maybe guns should be much more widespread. That certainly makes sense if you think about it. I have often considered buying a gun, but I don't feel comfortable having one around unless I get to a point where I feel completely comfortable with it as a tool. I don't think I should have one unless I am able to function with it as a virtual extension of my hand, because its proper use (or improper use) has such dire consequences. And I don't have the interest, desire, or need to develop that skill/comfort.

But, if guns were much more pervasive in society - were required for day to day life - for basic survival in the world, then they would just be a fairly mundane tool for everyone. To be a functional person, you would have to develop those skills, just like most people have to develop comfort with driving in order to to live in today's world. So, there you go, more guns, everywhere, for everyone might be the answer to less gun perversion. An essential tool that is understood and accepted by everyone is probably not going to be worshiped or misunderstood to the point of destruction.

But they aren't essential tools. Some people have jobs where they are necessary, but as a society, we generally consider those jobs to be less desirable, partly because there is a life risk involved. Some people use guns to provide food for themselves and others, which I consider honorable, but society generally views hunting as an unnecessary endeavor, if not somewhat negatively.

So, back to cars.... They are considered essential for the functioning of society, and yet they are probably more destructive than guns could ever be. I just walked through a parking lot filled with cars. The amount of resources required to build each car is enormous. The amount of resources required to process and distribute fuel to each car is enormous. The amount of pollution emitted by each of those cars over time is enormous, and there are over a billion of them driving around.

So, we've seen their use and made them ubiquitous, even though the continued use of them will eventually kill us all. Of course, getting rid of cars, as a impossible thought experiment, would cause the end of the world as we know it, too.

....Maybe I lost the thread there a bit, but thank you for reading. I think there are some interesting thoughts there.


So anyway, I think the gun perversion comes from the fact that their purpose is so extreme, while their role in most people's modern lives is minimal. It makes them a fetish (which is actually an excellent word for guns these days). I don't think we'll ever go to a point where everyone is comfortable with guns. In fact, as long as society remains stable, the perception will continue to grow that guns are a bit of an oddity.

But don't worry. It will all be better when we have robots. Then we can just command the robots to kill for us, and guns will seem much less threatening.








mutantMandias may cause dizziness, sexual nightmares, and sleep crime. ++++ mutantMandias has to return some videotapes ++++ Do not taunt mutantMandias

mutantMandias is something more than human, more than a computer. mutantMandias is a murderously intelligent, sensually self-programmed, non-being
jeepdave 


Location: Anderson, SC
Gender: Male
Total Likes: 1303 likes


It's also a gun.

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Re: Guns in society.
< Reply # 9 on 2/27/2013 1:21 AM >
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That was a pretty good read MM and I see your point. But those of us who are fairly skilled with a gun and see them as a tool like I do may not have ever been able to be skilled and familiar if not for very lax gun regulations. I feel the easier it is to obtain a gun and use it the better off society is as guns lose the exotic element and become mundane. I never was in awe growing up of guns because I saw them and used them all the time. I can appreciate a nice gun the same way I appreciate a nice set of Craftsman wrenches. As tools.




Ezekiel 25:17
splumer 


Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Gender: Male
Total Likes: 201 likes




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Re: Guns in society.
< Reply # 10 on 2/27/2013 1:41 PM >
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So Dave, if you don't think the pervasiveness and easy availability of guns contributes to the death toll, why are we Americans so fond of killing each other?




“We are not going to have the kind of cooperation we need if everyone insists on their own narrow version of reality. … the great divide in the world today … is between people who have the courage to listen and those who are convinced that they already know it all.”

-Madeline Albright
jeepdave 


Location: Anderson, SC
Gender: Male
Total Likes: 1303 likes


It's also a gun.

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Re: Guns in society.
< Reply # 11 on 2/27/2013 2:17 PM >
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Posted by splumer
So Dave, if you don't think the pervasiveness and easy availability of guns contributes to the death toll, why are we Americans so fond of killing each other?



Depends on where you are. Violence is actually on the decline in America, has been for several years. In the urban areas it's a culture of "gotta get mine" and thinking that the only way to make it through life is to be thuggish. In rural areas we don't really have as much of that problem. In the Suburbs it's being desensitized to violence and wanting to emulate inner city culture to seem "tuff".

Honestly people kill each other for plenty of reasons, profit, anger, mental illness, etc. And there isn't a damned thing we can do to stop it.




Ezekiel 25:17
MutantMandias 

Perverse and Often Baffling


Location: Atlanta, GA
Gender: Male
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Are you a reporter? Contact me for a UE interview! Also not averse to the the idea of group/anal.

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Re: Guns in society.
< Reply # 12 on 2/27/2013 2:46 PM >
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Posted by jeepdave

Honestly people kill each other for plenty of reasons, profit, anger, mental illness, etc. And there isn't a damned thing we can do to stop it.


OMG. I just had a great idea. We should make killing people illegal.




mutantMandias may cause dizziness, sexual nightmares, and sleep crime. ++++ mutantMandias has to return some videotapes ++++ Do not taunt mutantMandias

mutantMandias is something more than human, more than a computer. mutantMandias is a murderously intelligent, sensually self-programmed, non-being
jeepdave 


Location: Anderson, SC
Gender: Male
Total Likes: 1303 likes


It's also a gun.

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Re: Guns in society.
< Reply # 13 on 2/27/2013 3:07 PM >
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Posted by MutantMandias


OMG. I just had a great idea. We should make killing people illegal.


Worked with drugs.




Ezekiel 25:17
KublaKhan 


Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
Total Likes: 207 likes


With Satan, it's always gimmie, gimmie.

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Re: Guns in society.
< Reply # 14 on 2/28/2013 4:10 PM >
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2000+ gun related deaths in Merica since Newtown.

click




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