Posted by splumer I get the first world problems argument, but it's like saying "how can you have such a big Thanksgiving dinner when kids are starving in Africa?" I'm a member of both the ACLU and the Freedom From Religion Foundation, and yeah, sometimes they fight some battles that seem a little unnecessary, but usually their suits are based on complaints by individuals. They don't have lawyers going around looking for violations. If someone says "Hey, that prayer hanging in my public school violates the establishment clause," are supposed to say "Fuck you, it's always been there. Deal with it."? That's pretty much what happened in Cranston, RI, when student Jessica Ahlquist made that complaint. Simply because something has always been there, or is in some way "traditional" doesn't make it right.

Nah, I could just starve too but in the end Africans are still gonna be hungry. However if I don't piss and moan about everything I see that offends me or that I disagree with I would end up being far less annoying to people and wasting a shitload less of the taxpayers dollars in asinine legal battles.

They should say "Fuck you, its a prayer you don't even believe in, so how the fuck is it different to you than having a Harry Potter spell up on the wall?" I mean, seriously, in Cranston RI they had a non-denominational school prayer on the wall that had been there 50 years. It was not the school forcing kids to recite Hail Mary's during detention for a penance. My question, if you don't believe in something why does it even bother you? I don't believe in Judaism but I was never offended because we had a Menorah in my classroom, or that my 5th grade teacher had her Qwanza stuff all over the place. If you don't believe in something, cool, in that case it should mean nothing to you, but respect the fact it means something to somebody else and allow them their free practice.

I also am a huge fan of history and really disagree with removing traditional and historic items or customs because the vast minority don't like them. Like it or not that prayer was part of the schools history, and like it or not religion, particularly Christianity, played a huge role in the development of this nation. Attempting to erase any trace of that to make everything politically correct in my opinion is simply wrong.


May I also add that this Constitutionally granted freedom from religion argument is essentially absolute garbage. Nowhere in that document does it say anything to that effect, and considering the Bible was used in all public schools as a educational tool at the time it was written it is hard to imagine the founders intended the 1st Amendment to prevent people from saying Merry Christmas at school.

Posted by Soldat I also am a huge fan of history and really disagree with removing traditional and historic items or customs because the vast minority don't like them.

unfortunately, I agree with you on this point. I'll use the Confederate flag as a huge example... It's a piece of American history, regardless of how it used today. It represents an unpleasant period, but it is still history. I am not a big fan of having it merely airbrushed out of the picture because it makes some people uncomfortable.

religion, however, is NOT based in fact. It's a myth, a fantasy. It cannot be proven scientifically. I mean seriously... how can a quasi intelligent person sit across from me with a straight face and tell me that there is a god? it's madness.

as for the Christmas Question... well, here's the thing, Christmas as we know it is nothing more than an orgy of consumerism. If you're a member of the various christian cults, well, i suppose it means more to you, but for the rest of us, it's MAX the credit cards, stuff your face and have a day or two off from work. Nothing more. If you want to decorate or say merry christmas, so fucking what? But, you start filling my kids' head full of religious horseshit, we're going to have an issue.

Posted by Samurai unfortunately, I agree with you on this point. I'll use the Confederate flag as a huge example... It's a piece of American history, regardless of how it used today. It represents an unpleasant period, but it is still history. I am not a big fan of having it merely airbrushed out of the picture because it makes some people uncomfortable. religion, however, is NOT based in fact. It's a myth, a fantasy. It cannot be proven scientifically. I mean seriously... how can a quasi intelligent person sit across from me with a straight face and tell me that there is a god? it's madness. as for the Christmas Question... well, here's the thing, Christmas as we know it is nothing more than an orgy of consumerism. If you're a member of the various christian cults, well, i suppose it means more to you, but for the rest of us, it's MAX the credit cards, stuff your face and have a day or two off from work. Nothing more. If you want to decorate or say merry christmas, so fucking what? But, you start filling my kids' head full of religious horseshit, we're going to have an issue.

Are we so different, you and I?

Posted by Soldat Are we so different, you and I?

in some things.

Former archbishop of Canterbury says UK and US Christians exaggerate 'mild discomfort', and gay friends may feel let down

http://www.theguar...christians-grow-up

"Christians in Britain and the US who claim that they are persecuted should "grow up" and not exaggerate what amounts to feeling "mildly uncomfortable", according to Rowan Williams, who last year stepped down as archbishop of Canterbury after an often turbulent decade.

"When you've had any contact with real persecuted minorities you learn to use the word very chastely," he said. "Persecution is not being made to feel mildly uncomfortable. 'For goodness sake, grow up,' I want to say."

True persecution was "systematic brutality and often murderous hostility that means that every morning you wonder if you and your children are going to live through the day". He cited the experience of a woman he met in India "who had seen her husband butchered by a mob".

Pretty much my feelings when American Christians bitch about persecution.

Posted by G to the Race Former archbishop of Canterbury says UK and US Christians exaggerate 'mild discomfort', and gay friends may feel let down http://www.theguar...christians-grow-up "Christians in Britain and the US who claim that they are persecuted should "grow up" and not exaggerate what amounts to feeling "mildly uncomfortable", according to Rowan Williams, who last year stepped down as archbishop of Canterbury after an often turbulent decade. "When you've had any contact with real persecuted minorities you learn to use the word very chastely," he said. "Persecution is not being made to feel mildly uncomfortable. 'For goodness sake, grow up,' I want to say." True persecution was "systematic brutality and often murderous hostility that means that every morning you wonder if you and your children are going to live through the day". He cited the experience of a woman he met in India "who had seen her husband butchered by a mob". Pretty much my feelings when American Christians bitch about persecution.

ask gay folks in Africa or Russia or Jamaica if they feel "mildly uncomfortable".

Posted by G to the Race Former archbishop of Canterbury says UK and US Christians exaggerate 'mild discomfort', and gay friends may feel let down http://www.theguar...christians-grow-up "Christians in Britain and the US who claim that they are persecuted should "grow up" and not exaggerate what amounts to feeling "mildly uncomfortable", according to Rowan Williams, who last year stepped down as archbishop of Canterbury after an often turbulent decade. "When you've had any contact with real persecuted minorities you learn to use the word very chastely," he said. "Persecution is not being made to feel mildly uncomfortable. 'For goodness sake, grow up,' I want to say." True persecution was "systematic brutality and often murderous hostility that means that every morning you wonder if you and your children are going to live through the day". He cited the experience of a woman he met in India "who had seen her husband butchered by a mob". Pretty much my feelings when American Christians bitch any group in America bitches about persecution.

Fixed it for you.

Posted by Soldat Fixed it for you.

Fair play, sir, fair play.