Posted by Freaktography EDIT - You see, I just found you on Instagram and I was immediately disappointed in the fact that you are naming your locations in almost every post that you can and also naming the city that they are in and in a few cases the street. You might not want to do that anymore.

+1. Seriously, dude. You're putting so much work into the research, which is admirable - but you're allowing vandals and thieves to go and trash these places as they see fit. Please be more careful going forward.

Posted by Intrinsic Operating any database site is a challenge. You have to continually be one step ahead and attempt to resolve so many petty disputes it's exhausting at times.

Honestly I can't even imagine! Another one of the reasons that I'm wary of going down the "my own db" route is just the amount of work just managing things...having a well managed community, database and toolset isn't an easy task to achieve.

Posted by Intrinsic > It's difficult to give you any solid advice because you've so far not shown us any of your work to determine where it might be best suited. Your very first post was a critique of OAP, the second post a critique of both OAP/UER sites and Freaktography.

I'm not too sure if I'd agree that my first post was a critique of OAP...all I said was that it wasn't for me. Mind you, reading back on my second post I can definetly see how it's being taken that way, so my apologies! I love the work and community surrounding OAP

Really I'm just trying to use UER/OAP as examples of centralized databases and Freaktography as a good example of a personal database. Both database formats have their pros and cons - I guess I'm just thinking a little too outloud when I compare the two here! My bad.

In regards to me not posting my work...frankly I don't think my work really matters. I know that it's relatively well suited to be here, significantly less so at OAP, and obviously if I make my own site it will be as well fitted as it can be. These are all things I already know and aren't really relevant to my query.

If you're interested then feel free to check the Instagram (same username), but I think posting work would just distract from the goal of my post here...well, if it hasn't already been sufficiently sidetracked ;P My goal here was to find out how "in use" the database is, not if this database was a good fit for my work.

It's actually kind of laughable how bad I am at keeping this topic on track. oh well.

Posted by Intrinsic > Populating a database should have it's rewards too. If members are denied the location details, you're basically creating an art show. When you allow people to also get something back (in way of coordinates) you allow them to enjoy the property, you allow them to add their own galleries to other people's places, you allow them a day of roadtripping.

You make a very good point here. I like the metaphor of it being an art show; I hadn't really thought about it like that before, but you're right - things would get pretty pretentious in the Urbex community if there was no collaboration. It's a very fine line indeed!

Posted by Freaktography My website is not meant to be a tool for other people to find the locations that I visit, it is a personal project for me and it is there for people who are interested in the work and subject matter, to kill time and to just enjoy the photos, read the stories and move on. It is in NO WAY meant to be an "island of data" for others to pilfer through and carelessly share with their friends.

My apologies - it certainly wasn't my intention to offend anyone which it sounds like I might have. By "island of data", I literally just mean that it's non-centralized database - it's its own "island". That isn't meant to be a criticism of your site, it's just not necessarily what I'm interested in. I like the idea of centralized data - I like the idea that my work could be used as "tool".

I love your work! Please don't misinpret what I'm saying as a critique of such. I mentioned your site as a good example of what I'd aim for if I decided to do a personal db.

Posted by Freaktography > You can take great pride in your own work without telling the world how to find it, you can create your own personal and private map in google with links to your folder system, you can make a website to share the stories and the photos but for the love of Pete, why would you want to do all that work on some great locations only to allow that location to be seen an accessed by vandals, scrappers and treasure hunters....they are out there looking just as hard as we are, and they are winning.

Honestly, I really don't care about the whole vandals/scrappers/w.e. issue that you guys care so much about. I completely understand the reasoning behind it and support you guys in your endeavor to not have everything ripped to shreds by those who don't share your same interest, but personally I'm much more interested in the documentation and evolution of a location rather than the preservation. I know this isn't a very commonly held ideal.

I logic that some of my favourite locations are the gutted grafitti holes or the foundations left over from an arson victim. Not that I want every location torn to shit and burnt, but it also wouldn't bother me much if they were. I find as much pleasure in the work I do on locations that are no longer there as the ones that are.

I also think there's a very fine line to be walked here - more exposure to a location generally means more risk, but also more reward in the form of information that's going to become available about that location.

Posted by Freaktography EDIT - You see, I just found you on Instagram and I was immediately disappointed in the fact that you are naming your locations in almost every post that you can and also naming the city that they are in and in a few cases the street. You might not want to do that anymore.

Again, I personally don't really care about location secrecy. I do my best to not post specific locations out of respect for explorers such as yourself that don't share my views, so you'll be happy to know that any street-named locations were torn down long before they were posted, but the historically named areas in which these locations exist are an absolutely integral part of my work as a whole. I see the evolving history of an area as much more important than any single delapitated building.

Asking me to not post the area name would be like me asking you to not post your photos. I see almost no point in my work if I'm not documenting and sharing the area.

But I'm really not too sure if I understand what you're issue is with naming the locations themselves, though. You mean like "George Peach House" - those names? I get where people would draw a line with the cities, but why the hell does naming the locations matter?

Posted by Freaktography > However, if someone is resourceful enough to figure out where any of my locations are located, I applaud them for doing so and look forward to seeing how they capture the place.

This is basically the stance that I've taken. If someone is well-versed enough to find one of my locations based on the historic location name, property history/owners and some map sleuthing then in my books they deserve to find it. Actually, those are exactly the kind of people I would want to find it!

EDIT:

It's entirely possible that I may be informing some delinquent teens of a property in their neighbourhood, but I'm also informing some locals of an awesome piece of history sitting around the corner from where they live. Even though I don't really care for preservation, I still understand that for something to get preserved people have to be aware of it's existence.

You can't keep things safe by hiding them forever - the bad people will find it eventually. The trick is to get the good people well informed, interested, and taking action before that can happen.

I know there's a fine balance here, and being biased towards the side of not giving a shit definitely does not make me the best judge of how the scale should tip, but I've certainly seen enough places in my own town being torn down if not simply because of a lack of public knowledge. We'll save boring history because it's on a street corner and people see it, but that ridiculously historic building set back half a click? "Fuck it". The looters are going to find it either way eventually, and by that time the building has already been condemned to demo because everyone forgot it was a thing.

My apologies - it certainly wasn't my intention to offend anyone which it sounds like I might have. By "island of data", I literally just mean that it's non-centralized database - it's its own "island". That isn't meant to be a criticism of your site, it's just not necessarily what I'm interested in. I like the idea of centralized data - I like the idea that my work could be used as "tool".

I wasn't being snarky, but sometimes people read my remarks that way. No offense was taken at all, I was just clarifying so no apology needed

This thread has generated some great debate, thanks for that.

In this thread: Civil Debate on the internet.

I really love this site sometimes.

I've been a member here for 8 years now, and I'm still a general member, granted, I've only posted one visited site. I figured it was just a clique thing.

Wow one of the best discussions I've read here. Mature, thoughtful and respectful dialogue. I was tempted to say something trashy and insulting to throw it back to typical messages on the internet but I'll just stick with RAND PAUL 2016!

Now that that's out of my system, here are my thoughts. When I came to UER the first thing I went to was the database. I found some inaccurate information about a location and told the guy who posted. As it turned out he intentionally did it to help preserve other nearby sites (there are a couple of places right next to that are rather obvious). I really didn't understand his reasoning. A database is only as good as the info you put in.

With that in mind I was determined at that point that I was going to fix it when I became a full member. Furthermore I was going to use the database to visit every location I could and update the listings. The only reason I wanted to be a member of UER was to get to that precious "secret information" contained in the Urbex Holy Grail - the Members Only Database.

A funny thing happened. When I became a full member I really didn't care about the database that much. Sure it was interesting to see that some of the sites I had visited were there but honestly to me finding a site on my own is more satisfying than following in someone else's footsteps. I have uploaded a couple of new locations since then, added some info to existing entries but I no longer have the same excitement about the database I once did. The real pleasure I get from this site are the people I've met and the Forum. I like to think that I've made several friends here through private messaging about their work and our shared love of this hobby. My photos have improved and I no longer sit mindlessly in front of the tv at night.

In summary, whatever the intentions were for the site initially, the DB serves a useful function for those who wish to use it and I too wish more members updated it but hey to each his own. The real gift of this place is its members and with very few exceptions (I'm thinking of you ducknuts) I really enjoy the folks here. We have a good group of contributors and I'm grateful I found this community.


I have no idea why this thread makes everyone so loquacious.

ahaha poor Elvinfyre. That was a amusingly despairing post.

Posted by Peptic Ulcer With that in mind I was determined at that point that I was going to fix it when I became a full member. Furthermore I was going to use the database to visit every location I could and update the listings. The only reason I wanted to be a member of UER was to get to that precious "secret information" contained in the Urbex Holy Grail - the Members Only Database. A funny thing happened. When I became a full member I really didn't care about the database that much. Sure it was interesting to see that some of the sites I had visited were there but honestly to me finding a site on my own is more satisfying than following in someone else's footsteps.

While never becoming a full member of any of these databases, my feelings on the matter of urbex databasing has followed a similar curve. Originally the idea was that finding abandoned/interesting locations was HARD, so I'd explore just enough to get membership to one of these places and use the data there to fuel my explorations.

But you're right - then you start exploring, and next thing you know you're finding more joy in discovering something "new" rather than nailing every possible location. Perhaps the only reason I was so drawn into the hobby was because of how "new" everything felt as I would browse Urbex photos, but by the time I would go to these locations myself it would no longer feel "new" as I'd already been there before through someone else's eyes.

And then it goes even further than that! After putting in the work and finding a couple locations on your own you suddenly realize that it's really not THAT hard to find these places - and I don't know about the rest of you, but I've gotten to a point where my "to do" locations list is exponentially longer than my "visited" list. I'm slowly realizing that I actually enjoy locating the places more than I do even going to them!

Now while you'd think this would push me away from a database, I'm finding that this is EXACTLY why I want one - I've got so many damn locations! There is no way I will get to them all before their gone, there's no way I can adequately document their deterioration with return visits if I can't find time for a first visit, and there's no way I have time to do all the research I'm interested in all on my own. Hell, I'm finding it to be particularly time consuming just finding out if anyone else HAS done any research on the properties. I'm sure I can't be the only Urbexer who feels this way.

It makes me wonder how much history is lost because there isn't a place for it all go. How many things have been discovered about one of these locations that was never really documented anywhere, then by the time I get to visit the location it's completely vanished? That could be some of the coolest and most important history on the property, and the only reason it was lost is because it wasn't put somewhere that others can find it. Old photos, stories, memories...just lost. The thread about the Demo'd house in Oshawa is a prime example of this: old black and white photo of the house, but once the thread is forgotten about it will probably be lost forever (assuming they didn't get it from some other database).

I understand the desire for finding something "new" for oneself rather than just following in the footsteps of other explorers, but I'm finding as time goes on and locations/information disappears all that's left to "explore" or "discover" is the photos and stories left by those who were able to experience it - IF they took they time to put them somewhere, and IF that somewhere is accessible and easy to find.

Too many locations I've seen vanish from Google Maps without ever getting a chance to know anything about them. I guess I'm just realizing now that I don't want to be part of that problem anymore.

Now while you'd think this would push me away from a database, I'm finding that this is EXACTLY why I want one - I've got so many damn locations! There is no way I will get to them all before their gone, there's no way I can adequately document their deterioration with return visits if I can't find time for a first visit, and there's no way I have time to do all the research I'm interested in all on my own. Hell, I'm finding it to be particularly time consuming just finding out if anyone else HAS done any research on the properties. I'm sure I can't be the only Urbexer who feels this way.

GET OUT OF MY HEAD! I couldnt agree with your entire post more. What struck me in particular was the quote above. I scouted several locations this week that I either 1. Didnt have time to explore, or 2. Coulndt find a POE that didnt involve me breaking something. I have decided that I am going to post these locations onto the DB for others to explore. I know where they are and I may or may not be able to see them before they are gone. Why not give someone else the benefit of my FINDING a place and hopefully they can fill in the details.

Not sure if you share this same idea but if you have all of these locations that you feel will be missed, it may be worth putting up on the DB for someone else who is just looking for a quick and easy explore without all the hassle of research.

As a side note these are NOT going into the publicly viewable side of the DB...

Posted by suadensky95 Well said! I could not imagine what it must have been like to be on this forum ten years ago prior to everybody knowing about everything. It must have just felt so much more heated/ and special knowing your part of such a small group of like minded people. Now There are so many of us doing the same thing that people are more secretive about their projects, because they don't want everybody else to go and copy what they do. If everybody can easily explore the same thing, who gives a dam about it!

The glory days were already over by ten years ago.