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UER Forum > Rookie Forum > Photography Question (Viewed 8479 times)
blackhawk 

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Re: Photography Question
< Reply # 20 on 3/30/2017 5:13 AM >
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Posted by faith
at what point will you start to see an improvement in DoF quality? I have a 50mm f/1.8 lense that produces what I think is pretty nice bokeh, and I'm not sure how a more expensive/specialized lens would look better. an example or comparison image would be especially appreciated!


This is the 50L:

https://www.bhphot...D&is=USA&A=details

8 verses 7 blades and it's also the shape of the blades.
The results are subtle but noticeable. There are example of this on the web.


This was shot with the 50L wide open at f/1.2 in low light:






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Re: Photography Question
< Reply # 21 on 3/30/2017 6:45 PM >
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Posted by blackhawk


B&H Photo, it's where the pros buy.
Highly recommended... check out their website.
Do your homework and take your time.
Many decisions to be made if you're going to buy.

What do want to shoot?
I recommend a pro body if you can afford it.
Pros upgrade a lot and a used one in good condition can be had at good price.

Decide what length lens you want.
Primes, zooms or a mix.
The 24-70L and the 70-200 IS f/2.8 make a nice pair.
An earlier model non IS 24-70L can be had at a reasonable price as its not as desirable as the IS version but still a nice piece of glass.
Same with the 1st generation 70-200 IS f/2.8 however make sure it has IS and -Do Not- get the f/4 version.
Add a wide angle lense to that and you're pretty well covered.


yep fred miranda .com stuff always for sale and great prices like new a lot of times..




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Re: Photography Question
< Reply # 22 on 3/30/2017 7:52 PM >
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I can't scrounge for L's.
If I'm going for blur, I use my Canon 85mm 1.8 or Sigma 30mm 1.4 Art.

Solid advice on B&H. Same prices as Amazon hunting, with still no S/H and unlike Amazon, no tax. Better info, comparisons, and warranty as well.




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Re: Photography Question
< Reply # 23 on 3/30/2017 8:46 PM >
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Thanks for all suggestions! You've shown me I need to dig in and do more research 😀




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flySparro 


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Re: Photography Question
< Reply # 24 on 3/30/2017 11:35 PM >
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Posted by dundertits
if you are a nikon shooter the old 50mm F1.2 can be had for a good price!!

Yep I got my first 50mm f/1.8 AF for $60 on Kijiji.

Check Kijiji and Craigslist in your area.

Posted by Aran
Any recommendations on how to achieve this effect with a cheap digital camera? The auto focus on mine always brings the background into focus, rather than the foreground.

Zoom in. Keep that f/ stop as low as you can. Also if you're focused on a closer subject you'll see more DOF than if they're 20ft away.

posted by Faith
At what point will you start to see an improvement in DoF quality? I have a 50mm f/1.8 lense that produces what I think is pretty nice bokeh, and I'm not sure how a more expensive/specialized lens would look better. an example or comparison image would be especially appreciated!


Well.. DOF *QUALITY* has to do with the optics and diaphragm. Rounded vs straight blades and how many blades (as mentioned) but sometimes some really crappy bokeh can look cool.

The AMOUNT of bokeh is directly determined by the f/ stop. Anything at 1.8 or lower is going to have a distinct look, but for instance:

An 85mm f/1.8 will have more DOF visible on a subject than a 20mm f/1.2.

The 20mm has a wider aperture, but when you zoom in, you accentuate that depth.

My advice is use that *zoom in* technique and learn to get your focus + composition on point before you invest $1,800 in an L-series or high-end Nikon 85mm f/1.2.

If you REALLY want one, look at the Sigma Art series. Yes yes yes, can't say enough good things about them. Beautiful glass and up to $800-1,000 off the same thing from Nikon.

See #8 and #10 here. They were shot with the Sigma.

Hope that helps!


EDIT: I was a die-hard Nikon fan until I bought the Sigma art. I didn't want to touch a Sigma or Tamron with a 50ft pole but when you put that Sigma A on your camera and shoot a portrait, you'll understand.

5 stars, highly recommend!



[last edit 3/30/2017 11:37 PM by flySparro - edited 1 times]

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stealthwraith 


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Re: Photography Question
< Reply # 25 on 4/7/2017 3:07 PM >
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Managed to get this one! Flowers are where I have the most success with. I have another where I kept adjusting aperture to shoot my cat and one was fairly successful but I can't locate my card reader to upload it. I'll add that one as soon as I fix that issue.

1.






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Re: Photography Question
< Reply # 26 on 4/7/2017 3:09 PM >
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Posted by flySparro

.


Zoom in. Keep that f/ stop as low as you can. Also if you're focused on a closer subject you'll see more DOF than if they're 20ft away.



Thanks for the zoom idea! I was able to get my shot above on an iPhone with your suggestion!




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ZenCanadian 


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Re: Photography Question
< Reply # 27 on 4/7/2017 4:45 PM >
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Also, DoF can be used to isolate your subject and lead the eye to it. Consider that in your composition. Bokeh can be awesome! Keep in mind that different distances between the camera and the subject and the background make for different results, so play around and learn from doing !

Sometimes it's just fun to make the whole damn pic bokeh ;)
City of Bokeh by Zen, on Flickr


Focus Pocus by Zen, on Flickr




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blackhawk 

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Re: Photography Question
< Reply # 28 on 4/7/2017 4:46 PM >
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Posted by stealthwraith
Managed to get this one! Flowers are where I have the most success with. I have another where I kept adjusting aperture to shoot my cat and one was fairly successful but I can't locate my card reader to upload it. I'll add that one as soon as I fix that issue.

1.
404580.jpg (39 kb, 442x600)
click to view






Unfortunately either there was a breeze and the flower was moving or the AF lock was on the leaf behind the flower.




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stealthwraith 


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Re: Photography Question
< Reply # 29 on 4/7/2017 5:05 PM >
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Posted by blackhawk


Unfortunately either there was a breeze and the flower was moving or the AF lock was on the leaf behind the flower.


I think it was the latter. I was a balancing on a little wall trying to get this and had to hold it high above my head




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terapr0 


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Re: Photography Question
< Reply # 30 on 4/17/2017 6:23 PM >
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Posted by blackhawk
Stick with Canon. Excellent repair/support services especially for pro cams and L glass. More pros shoot with Canon.


LOL, that's hogwash. Nothing at all against Canon, but to imply that they're in any way better or more supported than Nikon is just untrue. Both Canon and Nikon make excellent gear, they both offer excellent customer service, and they're both widely used by professionals and amateurs alike. Sure, Canon tends to dominate the professional sports photography game, but Nikon is prevalent in a number of other fields where Canon isn't so common. Some of the biggest pro's in the World shoot Nikon, and some of the biggest pro's shoot Canon. The individual brands may find prevalence in one particular field (ie: sports, nature, landscape, studio portraits, product), but for all intents and purposes they are virtually equal in every regard, and you will not be better served by one vs. the other.

I've owned both Canon and Nikon gear, and ended up sticking with Nikon for a variety of reasons. Not because it's any better than Canon, but because I was more heavily invested in Nikon equipment, the Canadian service depot is close to my house (not that I've EVER needed it) and because the Nikon 14-24 f2.8 lens is better than any Canon equivalent for the type of photography I do.

I'd say go out and buy whatever you can afford. Spend more on glass than the body. if you can find a good deal on a used pro/prosumer body from either brand, buy it and spend what you saved on better lens(es). Don't be afraid to buy used gear - every DSLR body I've ever owned has been used, and I've saved myself thousands of dollars in the process, all of which was invested where it matters - into glass. The higher end bodies are built like tanks and will generally either work flawlessly or not at all.

/end rant.





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blackhawk 

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Re: Photography Question
< Reply # 31 on 4/17/2017 7:27 PM >
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Posted by terapr0


LOL, that's hogwash. Nothing at all against Canon, but to imply that they're in any way better or more supported than Nikon is just untrue. Both Canon and Nikon make excellent gear, they both offer excellent customer service, and they're both widely used by professionals and amateurs alike. Sure, Canon tends to dominate the professional sports photography game, but Nikon is prevalent in a number of other fields where Canon isn't so common. Some of the biggest pro's in the World shoot Nikon, and some of the biggest pro's shoot Canon. The individual brands may find prevalence in one particular field (ie: sports, nature, landscape, studio portraits, product), but for all intents and purposes they are virtually equal in every regard, and you will not be better served by one vs. the other.

I've owned both Canon and Nikon gear, and ended up sticking with Nikon for a variety of reasons. Not because it's any better than Canon, but because I was more heavily invested in Nikon equipment, the Canadian service depot is close to my house (not that I've EVER needed it) and because the Nikon 14-24 f2.8 lens is better than any Canon equivalent for the type of photography I do.

I'd say go out and buy whatever you can afford. Spend more on glass than the body. if you can find a good deal on a used pro/prosumer body from either brand, buy it and spend what you saved on better lens(es). Don't be afraid to buy used gear - every DSLR body I've ever owned has been used, and I've saved myself thousands of dollars in the process, all of which was invested where it matters - into glass. The higher end bodies are built like tanks and will generally either work flawlessly or not at all.

/end rant.




I think Canon still shadows over Nixon for sports shooters.
Both are good, both have there weak points.
There is more Canon gear out there though... and that favors Canon.
As of 2016 Canon still leads Nikon in market share by over 14%
Canon's lead was greater previous years. Canon throws a lot more money into R&D than Nikon.
So what I said is accurate.

I've seen a pro body misbehave subtly; electronics and/or one of the processors. Even an expert would have been hard pressed to find it.
In the end Canon replaced the 6 month old pro cam with a brand new one.
Canon backs their products 100%

Finding a flaw in an electronic cam can be time consuming and you need to know the model intimately. It's not easy and there's a lot the can go wrong that's not easy to detect.
I know from experience... my inspection advice is spot on.
Even Canon factory service can miss things.
Bare in mind some glitches are impossible to track down; Canon had that Pro body twice and failed to find its demons ie random lock ups and random AF lock on failures.
You buy that used body (it was scraped) or one like it... you are fucked.





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terapr0 


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Re: Photography Question
< Reply # 32 on 4/17/2017 7:47 PM >
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Nikon will absolutely service/fix/replace used items without any proof of original purchase. Maybe not as much with lower end gear, but if you have pro level stuff they will certainly help you out. They've cleaned and serviced my 14-24mm (bought used) without any original receipt and didn't ask any questions. They also did it for free.

Anyways, there is no end to this argument and I'm not trying to start a nikon vs. canon shit-fight. my only point is that they BOTH make excellent gear, and I wouldn't say that one is any better than the other. In the right hands they're both equally capable and will serve you well no matter what you chose. If you're just starting out I'd be more inclined to buy whatever brand more of your friends shoot so that you'll be able to swap lenses and get advice from knowledgeable users. If you don't have any friends that shoot, then seek out the best deal from either brand - you won't regret it either way.




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OnlyFootprints 


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Re: Photography Question
< Reply # 33 on 4/17/2017 8:28 PM >
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LOL, that's hogwash. Nothing at all against Canon, but to imply that they're in any way better or more supported than Nikon is just untrue. Both Canon and Nikon make excellent gear, they both offer excellent customer service, and they're both widely used by professionals and amateurs alike. Sure, Canon tends to dominate the professional sports photography game, but Nikon is prevalent in a number of other fields where Canon isn't so common. Some of the biggest pro's in the World shoot Nikon, and some of the biggest pro's shoot Canon. The

I couldn't agree more.
No one, and I mean no one cares what you shoot with except the shooter.

I have yet to meet anyone that can tell, just by looking at an image, what camera the image was shot on.

All major camera companies offer decent customer service, some even have a pro level support group for camera repairs and purchases.

Both Nikon and Canon have taken the pole position at various times for glass quality or sensor power.

Sony Alpha series is starting to replace some of the DSLR market share on a pro level.

I just talked to a producer who worked on a national ad campaign that was shot entirely on 35mm film with a point and shoot camera.

This "my brand is better than your brand" dick swinging is so ridiculous and seriously has no end to it because there is no "best" brand.

The numbers and sales figures only tell part of the story , and if you want to start to go down the technical rabbit hole be my guest, but I can tell you right now Richard Avedon, David LaChapelle, and other established and high level photographers could give 2 shits about brand as opposed to feel.

I mean- The Toyota Corolla is the best selling car globally. Does that make it the best? F no.



[last edit 4/17/2017 8:29 PM by OnlyFootprints - edited 1 times]

stealthwraith 


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Re: Photography Question
< Reply # 34 on 4/17/2017 8:59 PM >
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Just curious, it sounds like Canon is well agreed upon for sports shooting but what is Nikon preferred for? It's referenced in a couple of the comments here that both brands are preferred for their own reasons and I'm curious what Nikon is preferred for?

Side note, I have a Nikon DSLR but there is something wrong with it (probably why it was free) AND I had a picture fall off the wall in an earthquake in a way that the corner of the frame spider web cracked the glass screen (camera was in its bag on the floor under said picture). It took pictures fine for a while afterwards and then stopped working. I hadn't had it for long and hadn't done much with it not have I done anything with it since then and it's been sitting in my closet. If what I'm reading here is accurate I could take it to a Nikon place and they would look at it? If yes my fancy paperweight will have a new use!




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blackhawk 

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Re: Photography Question
< Reply # 35 on 4/17/2017 9:14 PM >
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Posted by terapr0
Nikon will absolutely service/fix/replace used items without any proof of original purchase. Maybe not as much with lower end gear, but if you have pro level stuff they will certainly help you out. They've cleaned and serviced my 14-24mm (bought used) without any original receipt and didn't ask any questions. They also did it for free.

Anyways, there is no end to this argument and I'm not trying to start a nikon vs. canon shit-fight. my only point is that they BOTH make excellent gear, and I wouldn't say that one is any better than the other. In the right hands they're both equally capable and will serve you well no matter what you chose. If you're just starting out I'd be more inclined to buy whatever brand more of your friends shoot so that you'll be able to swap lenses and get advice from knowledgeable users. If you don't have any friends that shoot, then seek out the best deal from either brand - you won't regret it either way.



I don't know why you would need a receipt unless it was a case like that factory defect like I had. They asked who I bought through and verified it with B&H.
The only thing Canon will do is check the serial number to see if it's on the stolen list.
When buying used Canon gear you can call Canon to see if it's stolen.


Nikon still uses Sony images sensors.
Canon designs and manufactures their own.
Check the specs for boot up, frames rate in RAW, etc.
Canon has always been about speed which is why it's a sport shooters fav.

A brief summary for Canon/Nikon action shooters:
https://www.bhphot...action-photography


If I was deciding on buying a cam, I'd read about the technologies schemes used by both companies and understand it thoroughly. Read full specs and reviews for the bodies -and- lens.
That's a lot of reading... happily, it's not my problem

Full lens reviews and bodies as well:
http://www.slrgear...ws/index.php/cat/2




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OnlyFootprints 


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Re: Photography Question
< Reply # 36 on 4/17/2017 9:31 PM >
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Posted by stealthwraith
Just curious, it sounds like Canon is well agreed upon for sports shooting but what is Nikon preferred for? It's referenced in a couple of the comments here that both brands are preferred for their own reasons and I'm curious what Nikon is preferred for?

Side note, I have a Nikon DSLR but there is something wrong with it (probably why it was free) AND I had a picture fall off the wall in an earthquake in a way that the corner of the frame spider web cracked the glass screen (camera was in its bag on the floor under said picture). It took pictures fine for a while afterwards and then stopped working. I hadn't had it for long and hadn't done much with it not have I done anything with it since then and it's been sitting in my closet. If what I'm reading here is accurate I could take it to a Nikon place and they would look at it? If yes my fancy paperweight will have a new use!


Both brands are excellent for any type of photography, the only factor that creates bias is the user.

And yes, depending on where you are nikon does have service centers that can look at and estimate the repair costs for your nikon products. They also have procedures for you to FedEx the part thats broken if a service center is too far from you.




blackhawk 

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Re: Photography Question
< Reply # 37 on 4/17/2017 10:52 PM >
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Posted by OnlyFootprints


Both brands are excellent for any type of photography, the only factor that creates bias is the user.

And yes, depending on where you are nikon does have service centers that can look at and estimate the repair costs for your nikon products. They also have procedures for you to FedEx the part thats broken if a service center is too far from you.


They are not equal just as different models aren't. jeeeeesze.
Get over the underdog complex; pick the right tools for the job that you can afford.

In depth research is the only way to learn what the differences are.
Type of photo sensor, how each cell is constructed and it's operating characteristics of the individual cell and the matrix as a whole.
The processors for the photo sensor array.
The AF sensors and their characteristics/specs.
The lens and their focus speeds and optical characteristics.
Which cams are the best night shooters for stars will quickly find you the best low light shooters.

This site's and info theories are still valid, some of the cam charts are older models. Start here and read, read, read!!!
http://www.clarkvi...icles/nightscapes/



[last edit 4/17/2017 10:53 PM by blackhawk - edited 1 times]

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Re: Photography Question
< Reply # 38 on 4/18/2017 12:35 AM >
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Posted by blackhawk


They are not equal just as different models aren't. jeeeeesze.
Get over the underdog complex; pick the right tools for the job that you can afford.

In depth research is the only way to learn what the differences are.
Type of photo sensor, how each cell is constructed and it's operating characteristics of the individual cell and the matrix as a whole.
The processors for the photo sensor array.
The AF sensors and their characteristics/specs.
The lens and their focus speeds and optical characteristics.
Which cams are the best night shooters for stars will quickly find you the best low light shooters.

This site's and info theories are still valid, some of the cam charts are older models. Start here and read, read, read!!!
http://www.clarkvi...icles/nightscapes/



I have no idea what "underdog complex" means with regard to my comment about Nikon and Canon both being producers of great cameras.

Both companies cameras, for the most part, are well equipped to handle almost any average users photographic scenario. Both companies have good sensors and good glass and the images can be accessed, edited, and used on almost any platform.


I mean, you could spend all your time obsessing about minuscule technical details but the final factor that determines if a camera is good enough for the user is the actual person who will use it.

I'm around cameras all the time for work. Still shooters, DP's, Directors, Old school cinematographers, amateurs, small campaigns, giant movie poster shoots blah blah blah and the truth is NO ONE CARES about the maker or brand. They care about the glass and the sensor and how they are going to use it. Unless you're ARRI, or Panavision or building full custom rigs most people buy what they think feels the best.

The last thing I want to do after spending 2 sessions in the industrial photography class testing sharpness, color accuracy, light transmission, chromatic aberration, auto focus consistency, sensor performance variations under various temperature exposures, variations in cavity array tone quality vs color filter depth and testing every sensor under the sun is to sweat about if the structure of the photosite in my Hasse H2 and Phase back sensor array is accurately processing all the wavelength intervals for RED within 15 degrees of tolerance.

If it works, it works.







blackhawk 

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Re: Photography Question
< Reply # 39 on 4/18/2017 1:59 AM >
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Posted by OnlyFootprints



I have no idea what "underdog complex" means with regard to my comment about Nikon and Canon both being producers of great cameras.

Both companies cameras, for the most part, are well equipped to handle almost any average users photographic scenario. Both companies have good sensors and good glass and the images can be accessed, edited, and used on almost any platform.


I mean, you could spend all your time obsessing about minuscule technical details but the final factor that determines if a camera is good enough for the user is the actual person who will use it.

I'm around cameras all the time for work. Still shooters, DP's, Directors, Old school cinematographers, amateurs, small campaigns, giant movie poster shoots blah blah blah and the truth is NO ONE CARES about the maker or brand. They care about the glass and the sensor and how they are going to use it. Unless you're ARRI, or Panavision or building full custom rigs most people buy what they think feels the best.

The last thing I want to do after spending 2 sessions in the industrial photography class testing sharpness, color accuracy, light transmission, chromatic aberration, auto focus consistency, sensor performance variations under various temperature exposures, variations in cavity array tone quality vs color filter depth and testing every sensor under the sun is to sweat about if the structure of the photosite in my Hasse H2 and Phase back sensor array is accurately processing all the wavelength intervals for RED within 15 degrees of tolerance.

If it works, it works.






Underdog:

One that is expected to lose a contest or struggle 
One that is at a disadvantage ie Nikon.

better?


Buyer beware. Read, read, read... learn.
Start with the cam and lens specs/reviews.
It is a big deal.
Once you have a couple grand of glass you're married to that brand.

One reason I choose Canon; they had and still have the biggest market share.
They traditionally earmark a large amount of their profits to R&D; that's implemented first on their pro cams but quickly trickles down to lower end models. Cams aren't their only business so they cross share technology with other segments of their businesses such as copiers which lower their costs.
Bottom line Canon has a lot of cash for R&D.
&
I never had the Canon software lose an image and DPP is easy to use.

http://www.slrgear...ws/index.php/cat/2





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