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UER Forum > Rookie Forum > Suggestions for scaling walls (Viewed 6079 times)
MysteriousExpedition  


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Suggestions for scaling walls
< on 3/9/2020 4:08 AM >
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So I'm not sure if this post belongs here, but here goes.
I was exploring a location last week and the whole building was inaccessible. The only way in was through was from a homemade rope leading to the roof of the building made by what I assume were either homeless people or others. The wall itself is to get to.

What's the general consensus on climbing these? Is it a bad idea to even climb walls using ropes and such?



[last edit 3/9/2020 4:09 AM by MysteriousExpedition - edited 1 times]

blackhawk 

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Re: Suggestions for scaling walls
< Reply # 1 on 3/9/2020 4:13 AM >
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Unless you can afford to take the fall don't trust unknown ropes or anchor points.




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Natchraz 


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Re: Suggestions for scaling walls
< Reply # 2 on 3/9/2020 4:18 AM >
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Depends on how strong the rope looks and feels. Give it a few tugs or so, but that isn’t expert advice, just common sense. Best bet is to use your own rope along with a harness.




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MysteriousExpedition  


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Re: Suggestions for scaling walls
< Reply # 3 on 3/9/2020 5:28 AM >
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Posted by blackhawk
Unless you can afford to take the fall don't trust unknown ropes or anchor points.


Simple and well put. The rope seemed strong. But a risk too much still...




MysteriousExpedition  


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Re: Suggestions for scaling walls
< Reply # 4 on 3/9/2020 3:03 PM >
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How bad would it be to get caught with rope by police or security?




mookster 


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Re: Suggestions for scaling walls
< Reply # 5 on 3/9/2020 4:13 PM >
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Posted by MysteriousExpedition
How bad would it be to get caught with rope by police or security?


You'd have to very quickly come up with a justifiable, legal explanation for you carrying one on your person.




iamglamourghoul 


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Re: Suggestions for scaling walls
< Reply # 6 on 3/9/2020 5:03 PM >
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This is an easy one. Rent a helicopter and land on the roof. Make sure it's one of those transformable heli's, so you can transform it into a chimney while you explore




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MysteriousExpedition  


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Re: Suggestions for scaling walls
< Reply # 7 on 3/9/2020 8:03 PM >
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Posted by mookster


You'd have to very quickly come up with a justifiable, legal explanation for you carrying one on your person.


Yeah true, that's definitely a major concern. Especially in Chicago no less. Well I'm convinced... I think I'll skip out on any rope climbing now




MysteriousExpedition  


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Re: Suggestions for scaling walls
< Reply # 8 on 3/9/2020 8:08 PM >
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Posted by iamglamourghoul
This is an easy one. Rent a helicopter and land on the roof. Make sure it's one of those transformable heli's, so you can transform it into a chimney while you explore


Taking a heli to any roof one desired would seriously be a dream come true...
One can dream though lol




AdventureDan 


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Re: Suggestions for scaling walls
< Reply # 9 on 3/9/2020 8:17 PM >
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Rope and a harness is not illegal ANYWHERE lol. It is however burdensome and attention drawing. If you were caught with it after or before said scaling activity, you can just say you are an avid mountain climber practicing hiking with all your gear weight, a practice I actually do frequently now.

Now that being said, it's not exactly easy to be sneaky with 40 lbs of rope on your back.

Also the most glaring issue with this plot is that rope doesn't actually help you climb lol. It's for descending or arresting your fall. You have to have access to the top of whatever your climbing in the first place to tie the rope up anyways, so it's not exactly beneficial for first ascents in an urban setting.

Rope can be climbed with much effort for short distances, or ascended technically using technical knots and your harness, but it's extremely slow and strenuous. While rope definitely has it's place for DESCENDING in Urbex, I can't think of any application where it would be useful going UP.




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Dee Ashley 


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Re: Suggestions for scaling walls
< Reply # 10 on 3/9/2020 9:19 PM >
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Posted by AdventureDan
. While rope definitely has it's place for DESCENDING in Urbex, I can't think of any application where it would be useful going UP.


I can think of a fairly recent use, actually...

Although it probably would’ve looked a lot less useful if we all had to do that part, lol.





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AdventureDan 


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Re: Suggestions for scaling walls
< Reply # 11 on 3/9/2020 9:31 PM >
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Posted by Dee Ashley


I can think of a fairly recent use, actually...

Although it probably would’ve looked a lot less useful if we all had to do that part, lol.




haha yes. But that's the strenuous intense ascension I mentioned. Also the descent had to take place first. Couldn't have done that coming from the other direction.




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MysteriousExpedition  


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Re: Suggestions for scaling walls
< Reply # 12 on 3/9/2020 11:30 PM >
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Posted by AdventureDan
Rope and a harness is not illegal ANYWHERE lol. It is however burdensome and attention drawing. If you were caught with it after or before said scaling activity, you can just say you are an avid mountain climber practicing hiking with all your gear weight, a practice I actually do frequently now.

Now that being said, it's not exactly easy to be sneaky with 40 lbs of rope on your back.

Also the most glaring issue with this plot is that rope doesn't actually help you climb lol. It's for descending or arresting your fall. You have to have access to the top of whatever your climbing in the first place to tie the rope up anyways, so it's not exactly beneficial for first ascents in an urban setting.

Rope can be climbed with much effort for short distances, or ascended technically using technical knots and your harness, but it's extremely slow and strenuous. While rope definitely has it's place for DESCENDING in Urbex, I can't think of any application where it would be useful going UP.


Haha yeah true. I've done climbing with rope a few times although not an intense climb. And yes it is very strenuous even from the little I did. In my free time, I sometimes do a lot of rock climbing at my gym. Not that it will be very beneficial for this or anything lol
If ascending does take that long, it might not be worth it in an area where cops patrol around. I usually go very early in the morning. SUNDAY morning that is. So there's hardly any patrol around at that time. But still, it is risky. But dammit I do want to try it despite the inconvenience lol.




Howie Dunnet 


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Re: Suggestions for scaling walls
< Reply # 13 on 3/10/2020 12:26 AM >
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I am not sure about trusting a rope that I did not personally anchor. If you could at least check the anchor with a drone, it might give you some confidence perhaps.

I would prepare a rope with knots and a grappling hook. I saw some pretty inexpensive ones for sale, which is handy in case you need to leave it behind.

Test it with your weight in a safe area before you go. Also, climbing a rope is not exactly easy if you have never done it, even with knotted increments. It's a workout physically. You will want some gloves.

You had better learn or know how to tie a Figure 8, Bowline, Square, and a butterfly knot at minimum with half-hitches.





AdventureDan 


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Re: Suggestions for scaling walls
< Reply # 14 on 3/10/2020 1:49 AM >
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Posted by Howie Dunnet
I am not sure about trusting a rope that I did not personally anchor. If you could at least check the anchor with a drone, it might give you some confidence perhaps.

I would prepare a rope with knots and a grappling hook. I saw some pretty inexpensive ones for sale, which is handy in case you need to leave it behind.

Test it with your weight in a safe area before you go. Also, climbing a rope is not exactly easy if you have never done it, even with knotted increments. It's a workout physically. You will want some gloves.

You had better learn or know how to tie a Figure 8, Bowline, Square, and a butterfly knot at minimum with half-hitches.




As cool as a grappling hook sounds, and as tempted as I once was to buying one, I did a little research on the actual practicality and reliability of grappling hooks before making the purchase, and upon further thought, I decided I will never use one and suggest the same for anyone else.

As proven as grappling hooks are for being a feasible ascending method, remember that historically the only time they have ever been used is during medieval war times and otherwise primitive sieges. Now put yourself in those peoples shoes. The idea of falling off a 30 foot wall to a crippling death, isn't that bad if you are in the middle of a siege where you are likely to get shot by arrows at any moment anyways. As far as I could find, grappling hooks have never been used in modern applications where death is not an imminent probability.

And here is why: you are literally trusting your life to a piece of metal that you throw blindly over an edge and HOPE it catches on something reliable. Now lets say you throw it over and pull a few yanks and it feels solid. You have no idea if what feels "solid" is actually just the hook on a 1/4 inch edge. Now imagine as you start hefting yourself up the rope, it shifts even a degree. Also remember that as you top out, your direction of force on that hook is going to change drastically. What was a solid catch at the bottom is now sliding up right as you reach the top. Now you are falling not only to the ground but with a deadly pointed metal hook flailing towards you.

Just some food for thought. And again. I was this close to buying one for a particular roof.

I found another way.




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Howie Dunnet 


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Re: Suggestions for scaling walls
< Reply # 15 on 3/10/2020 3:16 AM >
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Posted by AdventureDan


As cool as a grappling hook sounds, and as tempted as I once was to buying one, I did a little research on the actual practicality and reliability of grappling hooks before making the purchase, and upon further thought, I decided I will never use one and suggest the same for anyone else.

As proven as grappling hooks are for being a feasible ascending method, remember that historically the only time they have ever been used is during medieval war times and otherwise primitive sieges. Now put yourself in those peoples shoes. The idea of falling off a 30 foot wall to a crippling death, isn't that bad if you are in the middle of a siege where you are likely to get shot by arrows at any moment anyways. As far as I could find, grappling hooks have never been used in modern applications where death is not an imminent probability.

And here is why: you are literally trusting your life to a piece of metal that you throw blindly over an edge and HOPE it catches on something reliable. Now lets say you throw it over and pull a few yanks and it feels solid. You have no idea if what feels "solid" is actually just the hook on a 1/4 inch edge. Now imagine as you start hefting yourself up the rope, it shifts even a degree. Also remember that as you top out, your direction of force on that hook is going to change drastically. What was a solid catch at the bottom is now sliding up right as you reach the top. Now you are falling not only to the ground but with a deadly pointed metal hook flailing towards you.

Just some food for thought. And again. I was this close to buying one for a particular roof.

I found another way.


I agree with what you've stated, but we actually used them in the military to scale walls during urban combat scenarios as per standard operating procedures. I never fully trusted them, however.




AdventureDan 


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Re: Suggestions for scaling walls
< Reply # 16 on 3/10/2020 1:11 PM >
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Posted by Howie Dunnet


I agree with what you've stated, but we actually used them in the military to scale walls during urban combat scenarios as per standard operating procedures. I never fully trusted them, however.



You know as soon as I said that, I hoped you would respond with something of this nature. I didn't know they were used in modern military tactics. That's pretty badass! That being said I still believe that the safety margins are not large enough to merit use as a hobbyists tool.




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Abby Normal 


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Re: Suggestions for scaling walls
< Reply # 17 on 3/10/2020 3:00 PM >
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Posted by AdventureDan

<snip>

Rope can be climbed with much effort for short distances, or ascended technically using technical knots and your harness, but it's extremely slow and strenuous. While rope definitely has it's place for DESCENDING in Urbex, I can't think of any application where it would be useful going UP.



Let me prefix this by saying that I'm only posting this for fun. I do Minex which is quite different from Urbex.

Much of the time we start our exploration by progressing downward. The normal sequence is that we have to climb back out the same way. Occasionally we find another way out so we don't have to climb back up, but that's rare. This was about an 80 foot drop. Think of climbing a rope up the side of an 8 story building.




In some cases we need rope for safety going both down and up. In this picture, the hanging ladder is the way out of this area of the mine. The ladder is "solid"...sort of, but we use rope anyway.




Efficient rope climbing is an equipment intensive activity. It's somewhat expensive as well. It would cost me close to a $1,000 to replace all the gear in this picture (excluding the tripod of course). I have two complete sets of gear so I can train interested friends.




In an Urbex setting, the gear itself wouldn't get you into trouble. Getting caught in the act of scaling a wall or side of a building would be prima facie evidence of illegal entry.

Have fun!

Abby Normal



[last edit 3/10/2020 3:02 PM by Abby Normal - edited 1 times]

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AdventureDan 


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Re: Suggestions for scaling walls
< Reply # 18 on 3/10/2020 3:17 PM >
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Posted by Abby Normal


Much of the time we start our exploration by progressing downward. The normal sequence is that we have to climb back out the same way. Occasionally we find another way out so we don't have to climb back up, but that's rare. This was about an 80 foot drop. Think of climbing a rope up the side of an 8 story building.

http://www.mine-ex...r/Delamar_247a.jpg

Abby Normal



Of course if you start going down, you may need to go back up, and that's what I meant by not being particularly useful for ascending a building or some other structure that you couldn't otherwise climb, as an anchor would need to be established at the top first anyways.

on the ladder pic i imagine you are tying off at various points while ascending?

Awesome rap pics! Like your descending rack

Really would love to do technical mine exploration. only thing holding me back is my lack of knowledge about oxygen levels and poisonous gasses which terrifies me.




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MysteriousExpedition  


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Re: Suggestions for scaling walls
< Reply # 19 on 3/10/2020 5:58 PM >
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Posted by Abby Normal



Let me prefix this by saying that I'm only posting this for fun. I do Minex which is quite different from Urbex.

Much of the time we start our exploration by progressing downward. The normal sequence is that we have to climb back out the same way. Occasionally we find another way out so we don't have to climb back up, but that's rare. This was about an 80 foot drop. Think of climbing a rope up the side of an 8 story building.

http://www.mine-ex...r/Delamar_247a.jpg


In some cases we need rope for safety going both down and up. In this picture, the hanging ladder is the way out of this area of the mine. The ladder is "solid"...sort of, but we use rope anyway.

http://www.mine-ex...r/Delamar_271a.jpg


Efficient rope climbing is an equipment intensive activity. It's somewhat expensive as well. It would cost me close to a $1,000 to replace all the gear in this picture (excluding the tripod of course). I have two complete sets of gear so I can train interested friends.

http://www.mine-ex...r/Delamar_252a.jpg


In an Urbex setting, the gear itself wouldn't get you into trouble. Getting caught in the act of scaling a wall or side of a building would be prima facie evidence of illegal entry.

Have fun!

Abby Normal


That ladder looks scary as hell!
How do you trust yourself in the beginning to know when to to proceed despite the risks?




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