Posted by Conundrum oh, I know that, but there is a way to put their noses out of commission for a minimum of 24h, so they can not smell your scent, and follow you, but I want to see who knows how to do it... Mark should know, he should have been trained in it, the US training is more advanced than ours, and we covered it (mark should know what I'm talking about, even though I'm being verry vague)

I know someone who lost his hunt club for a while, because someone else has soaked down the ground with diesel and naphthalene mothballs.

I honestly forgot the damn name of the chemical. I actually heard it again for probably the 5th time in my life the other day on TV but yet again have forgotten. Its the most important stuff you forget. However yes I know what your talking about pilots carry a small quantity with them during some flights.

Why do pilots carry it?

I would think, that finding a way to collect or get clean water would be important.

Anyone know of any tricks for that?

In case they have to land in hostile territory.

Tricks for clean water? Tons I will have to write something up on that after I get back if thats what you want to know.

You can buy small vials of water purification tablets (basically a form of bleach I believe) that will kill giardia and other fun microorganisms. They make the water taste bad though, so you either add another chemical or some tang or something to kill the taste.

I bought a water bottle (the type you clip onto a bike frame) with an internal filter that removes 99.999% of contaminants and bacteria. It's supposed to protect against Giardia, which is a problem up here. I think the bottle was like $30 and new filters are $10 (they last more than a year). For bulk/camping use you can get pumps that filter out the same stuff, then you can refill your canteens or water jugs from just about any stream. I live in a coastal rainforest so there's always water somewhere.

I'd post links to these products, but I'm on a damn library computer that doesn't allow multiple windows open. There's also a method for getting water out of desert air, involving a plastic bag and some tinfoil, and similar methods for desalination at sea (I built a solar still once, they're pretty simple).

The tablets are usually iodine. Not recommended for prolonged use, but the water will taste better than boiled water.

Easy way to get water from the ground is to dig a hole, set a container in the middle, stretch a piece of plastic over the hole and set a small stone in the center. As the water evaporates it will condense on the plastic and follow it's contours towards the rock and drip into the container.

The principals should be the same for getting water out of air, though I've never seen the design for one of those.

Posted by ofberenonehand The tablets are usually iodine. Not recommended for prolonged use, but the water will taste better than boiled water.

i would have to disagree, nothing tastes better then just boiled water, adding some sort of chemical to it always makes it taste bad.

My only experience is boiling water in the BWCA and it tastes absolutely disgusting. I have to double the proportions on any drink mix just to choke it down. I would much rather drink it straight (scooped from the middle of the lake) or filter it. The iodine has almost no flavor, but turns the water brown.

Posted by ofberenonehand My only experience is boiling water in the BWCA and it tastes absolutely disgusting. I have to double the proportions on any drink mix just to choke it down. I would much rather drink it straight (scooped from the middle of the lake) or filter it. The iodine has almost no flavor, but turns the water brown.

You shouldn't do either of those in the BWCA, iodine and boiling will only kill organisms, but it wont take any of them out, nor any chemicals in the water. a good ceramic reusable filter works wonders for taste, and it removes any hazards. the BWCA is known for having high levels of mercury in the water, and it's also concentrated in the fish as well. anyhow, thats my 2cents.

The method of using a hole with a tarp/plastic thing over the top has been used in various forms over the centuries, it works well, but it's slow. If you have a long hose/tube that you can run from the can/cup under the plastic, to the outside, will allow for you to drink whats in the cup, without having to tear it apart

The boundary waters are supposed to be some of the most pristine bodies of water on the planet. No motors or development allowed on most lakes. It's kind of hard believing they would have particularly high concentrations of mercury. Then again, I did have some friends who got mercury poisoning while living in the woods around a remote Minnesota lake for several months (too much fish). Of course I'm vegan so that's not much of a problem for me

Also, killing the organisms is all you need to do. Who cares if you accidently injest some ruptured eggs. You'll never taste them and they won't hurt you. The main risk in the BWCA is ghiardia. It is killed by tablets and generally settles to the bottom before reaching the middle of large lakes.

Of course I do have one of the best ceramic filters on the market for most uses...


Good point about the tube. I always imagine using those things with very limited resources, but it would take more than one to sustain a single person so not having to rip them apart would be nice. The ammount collected varies widely based on soil, climate etc though. A small one in the right weather and right soil can yield a quart a day. You can never count on optimal conditions though.

Well there is something on the market that is interesting for 129 dollars you get this battery powered thing. It does something chemically and kills all the nasties in the water. It gets stuff the filter cant touch. MIOX or something like that.

http://www.msrcorp.com/filters/miox.asp

That's interesting. It includes salt and batteries.

One of the best ways to kill pretty much anything is simply light. Basic sun lamps are being used as a cheap form of water purification in many third world countries. It may not be entirely practical while roaming in the woods, but it's interesting to know that UV light even in small doses is so deadly to almost everything.

Posted by ofberenonehand That's interesting. It includes salt and batteries. One of the best ways to kill pretty much anything is simply light. Basic sun lamps are being used as a cheap form of water purification in many third world countries. It may not be entirely practical while roaming in the woods, but it's interesting to know that UV light even in small doses is so deadly to almost everything.

UV light is what they are using to seal MRE's now, rather than using a ton of preservatives mmm yum.

The mercury in the BWCA comes from the canadian smelting plants, and the coal plants. It's vaporized in the discharge gasses, and settles back to the ground with the rain. (My wife is working on her masters in Natural resources at the UofM and this is one of the things she's studied, hehe, $50,000 for education, an this is one of the few things that *I* found useful )

I like the boundary waters, i just came back from there this weekend, spent the last 4 days nordic skiing and snowshoeing off Flour lake.

Back on topic:

There are a number of plants you can tap for water as well, but thats a slow process.

used to work at a plant making water filtration devices (General Ecology), they are definately the thing to have if outdoors for a period of time or just camping and using the water. Getting the runs while camping or while starving and trying to survive sucks. I recently read in a survival book about the solar stills (plastice trash bag on the ground in a hole you dig with a hose), it basically said, forget it. they do not create enough water to survive in the desert (which is basically the only place you would need a solar still) and the effort of digging the pit, stretching out the plastic, gathering the stones to form the perimeter of the plastic bag, etc would be wasteing your energy.
about createing fire, I recently made a small survival kit for myself and the boy. it included a fresnel lens flat magnifier (used by the old people to read fine print) and we tried to create a fire with this thing. Next to impossible!! I was shocked. I always thought it would be simple to start a fire with a magnifieing lens but it is not. Make sure to have a lighter (also included in my little kit though) or waterproof survival matches.
HAMMER

Posted by HAMMERTIME used to work at a plant making water filtration devices (General Ecology), they are definately the thing to have if outdoors for a period of time or just camping and using the water. Getting the runs while camping or while starving and trying to survive sucks. I recently read in a survival book about the solar stills (plastice trash bag on the ground in a hole you dig with a hose), it basically said, forget it. they do not create enough water to survive in the desert (which is basically the only place you would need a solar still) and the effort of digging the pit, stretching out the plastic, gathering the stones to form the perimeter of the plastic bag, etc would be wasteing your energy. about createing fire, I recently made a small survival kit for myself and the boy. it included a fresnel lens flat magnifier (used by the old people to read fine print) and we tried to create a fire with this thing. Next to impossible!! I was shocked. I always thought it would be simple to start a fire with a magnifieing lens but it is not. Make sure to have a lighter (also included in my little kit though) or waterproof survival matches. HAMMER

Most survivalists love haveing a small knife or the kit and a magnesium lighter.

The solar still thing can be a nice supplement. However, dump rotting vegetation and water into it to speed it up.


What's that dog detering chemical again?

Oleoresin capsicum maybe? I dunno, I've heard of friends trainhopping the BNSF rails and they told me that a mixture of lemon juice, cayenne pepper, and ammonia in a spray bottle would be effective, but I have no way of knowing for sure if thats bullshit or not... not yet, at least.