Anyone care to share?

One of the simplest is remembering some basic concepts of deceit. Alot of these you can learn by realizing what people do when being honest of course. For example. If you're at a place with legitimate business and a security guard asks why you're there, you'd say something simple like "I have an appointment with *whoever*". No special details there. When a person lies, the tendency is to try to give extra details to make your story seem more credible, where in fact it makes it less credible. "I'm here because I have to see *whoever* at 3:30 about a condition I have thats been bothering me, yada yada yada..."

Another thing is, if i'm scouting a place in civvies walkin around, I'll walk right up to a security guy and ask him a stupid question. Works quite well, for one you can often get them rambling on and giving up information to you, and for another it puts you in the position of power by having initiated contact. It shows you don't feel that you have anything to worry about.

Posted by Jester Works quite well, for one you can often get them rambling on and giving up information to you, and for another it puts you in the position of power by having initiated contact. It shows you don't feel that you have anything to worry about.

Good point, it's the whole "Act like you belong there" concept.

It shows confidence, and hides all that other nasty stuff.

How would you practice this?

Somebody posted about getting into pools at hotels. That would be an easy way to try it out. Also, maybe large buildings where being caught in the wrong area wouldn't be too big a deal.

Like berenonehand said, I'd practice by going for something low key. Maybe get all decked out in a suit and tie and try out some employee only areas in some of the local government buildings or something.

At least that way, if I get busted, I can use a decent alibi, like I was trying to find a specific office or something.

Posted by Jester Another thing is, if i'm scouting a place in civvies walkin around, I'll walk right up to a security guy and ask him a stupid question. Works quite well, for one you can often get them rambling on and giving up information to you, and for another it puts you in the position of power by having initiated contact. It shows you don't feel that you have anything to worry about.

I can't stress this one enough. I've said time and time again that if you are the one who makes contact first, you will almost ALWAYS have the upper hand.

Guards/Police are trained that they should make contact first to maintain respect and authority. If you flip that on them, they're thrown off, and you are usually put in a position of respect/authority with them. It works great...try it out sometime

-M

Posted by ExKa|iBuR I can't stress this one enough. I've said time and time again that if you are the one who makes contact first, you will almost ALWAYS have the upper hand. Guards/Police are trained that they should make contact first to maintain respect and authority. If you flip that on them, they're thrown off, and you are usually put in a position of respect/authority with them. It works great...try it out sometime -M

yea, you initiate the conversation and it fucks them up...

on another note, ex you want to share our edgar experiance of social engineering with the group?

If you dont I want a PM

Posted by Conundrum yea, you initiate the conversation and it fucks them up... on another note, ex you want to share our edgar experiance of social engineering with the group?

Would that be the one where you were caught afterwards while exploring alone?

* Frost couldn't help but be evil

I've always had issues with social engineering. Although most of the stuff I do is via the phone, Carrie is the mastermind behind some of our more insane endevours when it comes to talking our way out of/into something.

She was brilliant at Disney during SEXFEST. Getting one of the employee shuttle drivers to believe we were just waiting for friends to get off work. All the while we were standing in an employee parking lot WAY out of the normal path of things.

How she does it I don't know. Then again she knows how to get Disney people to give her any info she wants. It's insane at times.

One effect trick ive learned for lying to a guard is invovle and element of human error, it makes the lie much more believeable. why would you lie to make yourself look bad? ex: guard: "what are you doing here" you: "im looking for my friend who works here (give incorect location name) guard: "well you've got the wrong place" you:"but arent we in this building?" guard: "no" you: (say this to your friend you brought along with you) you idiot i told you we were in the wrong building, sorry well leave now". that basic formula works pretty good most of the time.

A hard hat or reflective vest can get you into a lot of places, and people won't even turn their head. The key is making it subtle, not making it a perfect costume. If you don't go overboard on this, then you won't even have to think of any excuses as to why you have said hardhat, reflective vest, or other item. Just say "for safety" or something like that. But if you do overkill, like for example make up a fake janitor badge or something, then you'd be impersonating someone and then it could be considered a disguise, intended to deceive. One or two innocent items should be just enough to get people to ignore you.

Yeah, I know of freight hoppers that dress in the reflective vests rail yard workers use. Works magic for them, apparently ;).

Carry a clipboard with blank forms and/or a yellow legal pad. Only important people carry clipboards. Then just try to look busy and slightly bored.

I've found being female is a huge advantage (sorry guys).

Smile, act a little confused, flirt, wear something that allows for an "accidental" glimpse of cleavage, intentionally mimic the usually unconscious signs of sexual attraction (play with hair, touch the other person's arm, etc.).

Generally speaking everyone wants to be liked. Once you initiate contact with somebody who could potentially block your access, create a bit of a social contract between the two of you with a comment as simple as asking them when their shift is over and commiserating about how tired they must be.

Coming from a background that includes linguistics and semantics, I'm very attentive to my phrasing. Everything I say is worded in such a manner that it takes for granted my being allowed access. That sort of subtle guidance usually works.

Id enjoy hereing a little more indepth info on your linguistics and semantics.

Always make yourself believe what you're saying. If you're trying to convince the person that you belong there believe that you belong there.

When you make a lie the truth it's easier to make it convincing.

Posted by Mark I'd enjoy hearing a little more indepth info on your linguistics and semantics.

Just simple tricks like active verb tensing when the verbs apply to me, passive when they apply to the security personnel, using phrasing tricks to push the options you want to the forefront of security's thinking, boxing them in with various Socratic argument techniques. A lot of it is just the irritating stuff you learn when you learn formal debating. Sort of difficult to explain in the abstract.

Don't have a "rubberneck". In other words, if you're in an area where you'll probably be seen by the public or security, don't constantly turn around and check to see if someone is looking at you. This is the most obvious sign that you're nervous and you probably don't belong. This goes for running too. Heh, walk with authority.

Wearing a uniform to make yourself look like you're supposed to be there can be very effective. You look less out of place if you're wearing a uniform. I've always thought it'd be great if I borrowed a panel van and put "John Doe's Roofing" decals on it. Then I wouldn't look out of place if I brought a ladder with me and went up onto the roof of the abandoned building. While I haven't tried this either, making a phoney work order could be useful, regardless of which ploy you're trying. If security comes up to you and asks you what you're doing.. and afer you tell him he then tells you he wasn't aware that this work was going to be going on, just tell him you have a work order, it's your job to do this, and if you don't you could get fired.. etc etc.

Also, this could be useful: So you wanna lie persuasively.