Posted by Trixi A Catholic does not believe the bread and wine are symbols of Jesus, we believe they actually become the true body and blood of Christ under the direction of the priest and the Holy Spirit... we very literally are taking Jesus into our bodies to feed our spirit.

I never have understood that.
*shudder*

Posted by Trixi we believe they actually become the true body and blood of Christ under the direction of the priest and the Holy Spirit.

I'm curious - at which point does it turn into the body and blood of Christ? In your mouth? Throat? Stomach? Intestines? Toilet?

When it's blessed by the priest I think.

And you're a bit wrong there Trixi, not all protestant religions have open communion. Lutheran is closed. And it's not symbolic to us either. We're kinda fence sitters on wether it's blood and flesh, or wine and bread. We say it's both:

"Holy Communion is the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ given with bread and wine, instituted by Christ himself for us to eat and drink."

It's kinda like, to us it's bread and wine imbued with the power and all the sanctity of the blood and flesh of Christ.

But you are right, most protestant religions believe that it's just symbolic.

Posted by Frozen I'm curious - at which point does it turn into the body and blood of Christ? In your mouth? Throat? Stomach? Intestines? Toilet?

The bread and wine are transformed during the mass at the same time the priest quotes Jesus' words "This is My Body" and "This is My Blood". Just as it was done by Jesus, the priest, at the Last Supper.

Hrmm I'm really confused now

So can you see the bread and wine when this transformation takes place? What does it looks like, how does it change in shape, color, whatever? Does it taste like flesh and blood or does it taste like bread and wine?

If it looks like bread and wine, and tastes like bread and wine, then I am very confused how you say you actually believe it is flesh and blood. Do you think your senses are lying to you or what?

Posted by Frozen Hrmm I'm really confused now So can you see the bread and wine when this transformation takes place? What does it looks like, how does it change in shape, color, whatever? Does it taste like flesh and blood or does it taste like bread and wine? If it looks like bread and wine, and tastes like bread and wine, then I am very confused how you say you actually believe it is flesh and blood. Do you think your senses are lying to you or what?

Not sure if you are being sarcastic or what but if you are really interested:

"In the celebration of the Eucharist, the glorified Christ becomes present under the appearances of bread and wine in a way that is unique, a way that is uniquely suited to the Eucharist. In the Church's traditional theological language, in the act of consecration during the Eucharist the "substance" of the bread and wine is changed by the power of the Holy Spirit into the "substance" of the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ. At the same time, the "accidents" or appearances of bread and wine remain. "Substance" and "accident" are here used as philosophical terms that have been adapted by great medieval theologians
such as St. Thomas Aquinas in their efforts to understand and explain the faith. Such terms are used to convey the fact that what appears to be bread and wine in every way (at the level of "accidents" or physical attributes - that is, what can be seen, touched, tasted, or measured) in fact is now the Body and
Blood of Christ (at the level of "substance" or deepest reality). This change at the level of substance from bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ is called "transubstantiation." According to Catholic faith, we can speak of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist because this transubstantiation
has occurred."

No I wasn't being sarcastic, thanks for your answer

So what you are saying is that, while the bread and wine ARE bread and wine to any test we can give it, they are at the same time, on the deepest, most important level, the flesh and blood of Christ. The atoms are not moved or changed in any way, but the deeper meaning of it is changed.

It seems to me this is the same thing as those who believe it is symbolic. They would say on the symbolic level (which one may argue is the deepest and most important level), the bread and wine IS the flesh and blood of Christ. In their perspective the atoms are not moved or changed, but the meaning is changed, just like in your perspective the atoms are not moved or changed but the meaning, at the level of "substance" is changed.

What exactly is the difference between something being symbolic and something being transubstantiative?

The US Conference of Catholic Bishops has an entire page devoted to the presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Here is the link:

http://www.nccbusc...p/realpresence.htm

If this doesn't answer any questions you might have regarding doctrine, I will try to help you find out what you need to know.

Thanks for the link! I was quite ignorant about Eucharist. Unfortunately when it comes down to my main question though it looks like they pretty much say it's not possible for me to comprehend it

Posted by Decoy When it's blessed by the priest I think. And you're a bit wrong there Trixi, not all protestant religions have open communion. Lutheran is closed. And it's not symbolic to us either. We're kinda fence sitters on wether it's blood and flesh, or wine and bread. We say it's both: "Holy Communion is the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ given with bread and wine, instituted by Christ himself for us to eat and drink." It's kinda like, to us it's bread and wine imbued with the power and all the sanctity of the blood and flesh of Christ. But you are right, most protestant religions believe that it's just symbolic.

LCMS is usually closed. Most ELCA Lutheran Churches I have been to have had open communion. LCWS, I've never been to, nor have I been to any outside of the United States. So even among Lutherans it varies.