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UER Forum > Private Boards Index > Section One Extreme UE and SPY talk > UE Dealing with police (Viewed 10179 times)
roofwalker 


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UE Dealing with police
< on 10/30/2005 8:59 PM >
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Police are taught methods of interrogation, such as trying to catch you in a lie. One example of such is asking you a question, moving onto some other questions, then coming back the restating the original question, trying to catch inconsistencies in your story.

Anybody aware of any others?



[last edit 10/30/2005 9:51 PM by roofwalker - edited 1 times]

Mark 

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Re: UE Dealing with police
< Reply # 1 on 10/31/2005 12:12 PM >
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They ask you a question they already know the answer to. I use that one a lot. I'll post more when I can.




"If the threat level goes up its probably because of me." "I am looking for a girl who enjoys headbutting beltbuckles"
roofwalker 


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Re: UE Dealing with police
< Reply # 2 on 11/1/2005 2:40 AM >
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I found this interesting. I hope someone else will too. The following is from The Complete Idiots Guide to Criminal Investigation by Alan Axelrod and Guy Antinozzi.

"The trained investigator is a difficult person to be around. The children of such a person can always be sure of some type of interrogation upon returning home after being out: "Where are you? Who were you with?" The assumption is that everyone is lying, at least a little bit. Whether or not this assumption is warranted is arguable. What is not arguable is that a generous helping of skepticism can go a long way in testing the veracity of another person.

It's amazing the things people lie about. The secrets we wish kept are often of such a trivial nature that one would think they mean nothing. To the police investigator and that is what a good investigator needs to be--these lies are the door that open to the truth.

If you can get to what people are lying about, then you can get to the truth: Who is being protected and why? What movie is there for not coming clean? These are the questions the experienced investigator seeks to answer.

Miranda

They go into the whole bit about police having to give you your miranda rights. If they don't tell you your miranda rights while in custody and under interrogation, your statements can not be used against you in court. The main things to take from this is that you have the right to remain silent and you have the right to a lawyer. Even if the police come up to you on the street, and start asking you questions, you don't have to answer them. The only thing you're legally obligated to tell them is your name if they ask.


Productive Questioning

One of the most valuable lessons an investigator learns is to avoid asking questions to which he or she does not already know the answer. It is critical to direct the flow of information. Rare is the subject who freely divulges truthful, useful and concise information. It is far more common for the suspect to talk around the questions. This can lead to the truth, but not without some nudging.

Often the first task is simply to get the person talking. The detective must figure out what sort of persona he or she needs to project in order to get through to the suspect-- a parental figure, a confessor, an intimidator, or even something of a friend and ally. The detective tries to be whatever it takes to get the tongue wagging. In this role playing, the suspect often unknowingly assists the interrogator. Appealing to the bravado, pride, machismo, the need for understanding, or insecurity the suspect exhibits is often effective in overcoming a reluctance to talk.

If interrogators should be good questioners, they must be even better listeners. Interrogators avoid question that produce nothing more than a yes or no. Instead, they ask open-ended questions that keep the conversation going.

Look me in the eye

Interrogators use many methods to assess the truthfulness of a suspect. Kinesics is one effective method all experienced investigators use, whether they call it by that name or not. Kinesics is the formal study of non-verbal communication, what is familiarly called "body language". There is a lot oto be learned from the suspect's movements, expressions, and gestures in response to questions or what psychologists call other "stressors". The suspect may touch his nose, touch his mouth, grab his neck. He may cross his arms over his chest, or may laugh inappropriately. He may avoid eye contact or chew on his lip when being spoken to. Various protective and evasive movements are innate human responses to stressors. They are hardly proof of guilt, but they are indicators of a lack of truthfulness.

In jurisdictions that encompass culturally diverse populations, the investigator must also be aware of how culture and tradition may influence gestures. For example, in some cultural traditions, it is considered impolite to look someone in the eye. The interrogator needs to be certain that a suspect who appears evasive is not merely acting as a result of upbringing and background."



[last edit 11/1/2005 3:02 PM by roofwalker - edited 2 times]

Mark 

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Re: UE Dealing with police
< Reply # 3 on 11/1/2005 1:08 PM >
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Very nice read.... I need to get tha book I think.




"If the threat level goes up its probably because of me." "I am looking for a girl who enjoys headbutting beltbuckles"
roofwalker 


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Re: UE Dealing with police
< Reply # 4 on 11/1/2005 3:02 PM >
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Heh, view it on amazon first... that's where I got the above text from.




dlp_qc 


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Re: UE Dealing with police
< Reply # 5 on 11/2/2005 11:06 PM >
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I think the best way and only way is to say the truth, you were in that bulding ? Yes i was sir, taking pictures. You know it's illegal ? Sure I do sir I didn't want to bother anyone. etc.




« Vaincus dans la lutte, ils triomphèrent dans l'histoire. » - Alfred Laliberté
Mark 

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What is a lion, king of the savannah, when hes at the south pole?

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Re: UE Dealing with police
< Reply # 6 on 11/4/2005 3:08 AM >
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Very true dlp_qc however I like the other side and social engineering. Also it doesnt work to well in certain cases. I was at a place this week that honesty would have gotten us in deep shit.

Also I like learning other things like that, although you have a great point.




"If the threat level goes up its probably because of me." "I am looking for a girl who enjoys headbutting beltbuckles"
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Re: UE Dealing with police
< Reply # 7 on 11/4/2005 3:13 AM >
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Being truthful to the police is always the best tactic if you have to go that route. Especially if your car is in... front of the building. Slap me around if you must.

Exploring an old hospital, park out front since there really is no easy way to get there except by car. I didn't realize at the time its an ear shot from the detention center so there are lots of cops nearby. Try to enter said building at 2 AM, but got distracted (with 2 other friends, X and Y) when a baby kitten was poking around.

It was SOOOOO cute! Go ahead, slap me now.

We spent the next 30 minutes trying to get the cute kitten but it refused to come near us ' (yes, that is a tear). But thats the saving point. A police officer pulled up next to my car. Friend X said we should go and hide.

Right. That's real smart. Hide while MY vehicle is out there.

Friend Y and myself decided to walk up to the officer. Told him we were just taking night photographs (its got an errie glow to it at night). He said that was great and that we didn't break in to it which he was glad about. Just did a simple scan of our drivers license and thats it. It helps when you approach him wearing a collared shirt dragging along a tripod, camera bag, camera, etc. with you )




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Re: UE Dealing with police
< Reply # 8 on 11/6/2005 12:06 AM >
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Here are a few observations I've made. In a past life I broke a law or two ;) I have been arrested, interrogated, etc.

1. Always remember you have the right to remain silent (in the US). If LE asks you something you don't want to answer then don't. They can't force you to answer it.

2. If you're intelligent and understand what the officer is trying to do (catch you in a lie, get you to admit a wrongdoing, etc) you can use that to your advantage. Like was said above, LE will try to befriend you. Let them! They will think they have the upper hand and everything is going the way they want. Usually they won't realize that you are doing it on purpose with the knowledge of what they are trying to do.

3. CONFIDENCE. Read that again. It is required to succeed at anything and everything. You must believe in yourself and your ability. I am a master bullshit artist/social engineer. I know I am and I believe it. Believing in it alone makes it work. If you must lie you must believe the lie, otherwise it isn't true.

4. Do not fear LE. You are most likely breaking a law and they are just doing their job. There is nothing to fear. If being arrested is something you fear then don't break the law.

5. Expensive looking cameras and tripods can get you out of a lot of shit.




roofwalker 


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Re: UE Dealing with police
< Reply # 9 on 11/20/2005 6:59 PM >
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Hopefully you won't run into a situation where you would need to know this, but it's an interesting read: Department of Defense Polygraph Institute's Interview and Interrogation Handbook[PDF].




DriverDan 


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Re: UE Dealing with police
< Reply # 10 on 11/23/2005 3:19 PM >
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Posted by roofwalker
Hopefully you won't run into a situation where you would need to know this, but it's an interesting read: Department of Defense Polygraph Institute's Interview and Interrogation Handbook[PDF].

At first I was excited that you actually got this. Then when I opened it and saw 1991 I was disappointed. A lot has changed since 1991. Everything is computerized now.




AgentNox 


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Re: UE Dealing with police
< Reply # 11 on 11/23/2005 4:09 PM >
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First of all I will acknowledge that being a girl is a tremendous advantage for me. If all else fails I can cry and it usually elicits some degree of sympathy and protectiveness rather than disdain.

But in general, I think the best way to deal with the police is to explore in a strictly ethical manner all the time. Don't damage a location to gain entry, never take anything, and generally work to be a zero impact explorer. If you are caught these things will always work to your advantage.

Don't lie. Getting caught in a lie will seriously compound any trouble you may be in. Most officers and security guards are so confounded by the truth anyway that it puts you at an advantage. It's hard for many people to understand why the hell we'd want to run around abandonments taking photos and just seeing what's there.

Ninjalicious quite astutely pointed out that it's a good idea to sentence yourself. Don't wait for the officer to decide what to do with you, offer a suggestion as to your "punishment" before they do. "Wow, officer, I never realized how much trouble I could get in doing this. Your warning has really put it into perspective."




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roofwalker 


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Re: UE Dealing with police
< Reply # 12 on 11/24/2005 3:57 PM >
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Posted by DriverDan

At first I was excited that you actually got this. Then when I opened it and saw 1991 I was disappointed. A lot has changed since 1991. Everything is computerized now.


Did you read it at all though? There's at least 50 pages dedicated to interrogation techniques. It's worth reading.




Mark 

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Re: UE Dealing with police
< Reply # 13 on 11/24/2005 6:32 PM >
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It's also apparently pretty accuracte. I dont think they have changed the info in years so says most of the police I know.




"If the threat level goes up its probably because of me." "I am looking for a girl who enjoys headbutting beltbuckles"
dlp_qc 


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Re: UE Dealing with police
< Reply # 14 on 12/5/2005 3:59 PM >
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http://www.omnipre...ost.org/ch9txt.htm
Ecodefense

If You Are Arrested

If, despite all of your precautions, you fall into the hands of the police, remain calm and collected. What you say at this point may well make the dif­ference between being freed and imprisoned.

When dealing with police, be polite. An angry cop will go out of his way to make life difficult for you. However, being polite does not mean you have to acquiesce in everything the cop wants. Don't be intimidated by the uniform and gun. Never (if you still have any say about it) consent to a search of your person or vehicle. When asked, politely but firmly say "no."

Most police are well aware of their power to intimidate. They know that putting someone in handcuffs or driving them "downtown" is sometimes all it takes to make a suspect cooperate fully in incriminating herself. The shock of arrest, isolation from friends and family, and well practiced questioning are all designed to force the suspect's cooperation, confession, and the implication of others.

If you are arrested, do not talk to police until you have talked with your lawyer. You will be read your "Miranda" rights only if police officers wish' to question you. Do not be lulled into casual conversation; this is a standard method for lowering a suspect's defenses and causing a slip of the tongue. Your only safe answer to questioning is to politely tell the police that you have nothing to say until you have talked to a lawyer. Then say nothing, not even small talk. This measure alone may spare you from later conviction.

Don't believe the cops if they say it's too late at night to get a lawyer. You can call one any time (or else have one appointed when the courts open in the morning).

Watch out for the "nice" cop who wishes you would cooperate for your own good. His partner will often come on with the "tough guy" approach to make the "nice" cop seem friendlier still. Another classic ploy is to tell you that "we know everything, anyway." If the police really knew everything, they wouldn't waste time asking you questions. Sometimes the police will reveal a few bits of information and tell you that they are only trying to fill in "a few minor details."

Perhaps the most common ploy is to tell you that it will all go easier for you if you cooperate. In reality, your cooperation will only make it easier for them to convict you. Never forget that the interrogating officer is a trained profes­sional, in his own element, and that you are out of yours. If you try to talk your way out of trouble, you will probably only make it worse. Say nothing until you've seen a lawyer.

Even should you slip up and reveal something damaging to the police, you are under no obligation to continue talking or answering questions. In such an instance, when you come to your senses, stop talking immediately.

Before undertaking serious monkeywrenching, read up on a few pertinent points of law. Most important, read if An Agent Knocks, available free from the Center for Constitutional Rights, 666 Broadway, NY, NY 10012. This booklet gives the best and most accurate advice available on your rights to refuse to talk.

A book well worth reading is The Outlaw's Bible, by E. X. Boozhie. (In the second edition of Ecodefense, we reported it was available from Circle A Publishers in Arizona for $12.95 postpaid. They seem to no longer be in busi­ness. But some folks have ordered it through bookstores like Walden's for $11.95.) It tells you how a few extra precautions may maximize the protection of your "constitutional rights," something most people take for granted until it is too late.

-Clarence Darrow

FIELD NOTE

* Never talk to the FBI. They usually come calling in pairs, and one is carry­ing a concealed recorder to catch everything you say. Don't try to outwit them. Ask them what they want, then tell them you have nothing to say. Warn your friends immediately after the agents leave, as they may be visited next. But be cautious when warning your friends! You may be under electronic or physi­cal surveillance and the FBI visit may have been designed only to spook you into leading them to your associates. They're crafty devils. Have a planned, innocent-sounding code phrase which you can insert into a pay phone or face­-to-face conversation to warn others that law enforcement is snooping around




« Vaincus dans la lutte, ils triomphèrent dans l'histoire. » - Alfred Laliberté
monster 


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Re: UE Dealing with police
< Reply # 15 on 12/30/2007 4:40 AM >
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some interogaters will tell you that they found your fingerprints at the scene of the crimes even if you didn't do it. They might think your guilty even if your innocent and they might tell you they found your prints even if they found none just to make you think you did it and confess.




\/adder 


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Re: UE Dealing with police
< Reply # 16 on 7/24/2008 1:57 PM >
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Here:

http://edge.i-hack...talk-to-the-police

If pulled over/ stopped/ questioned don't admit to anything. Play Dumb. Do not admit to anything. Do not incriminate yourself. Short Yes or No answers. Don't give more detail than necessary. Remember the Cop is on his own side, he may try and make it seem like he is on your side but he is not.

If arrested don't say anything without a lawyer present.

also

http://www.beatmys.../busted/busted.pdf
http://www.flexyourrights.org/
etc.




"No risk, no reward, no fun."
"Go all the way or walk away"
escensi omnis...
KublaKhan 


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Re: UE Dealing with police
< Reply # 17 on 8/6/2008 6:18 PM >
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Asking the same question, worded differently, and spaced throughout an 'interview' is also common. This tests your reliability in answering the questions overall, but also serves to highlight inconsistencies within that specific question.





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Re: UE Dealing with police
< Reply # 18 on 8/29/2008 4:07 AM >
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Don't say shit thats what you can do. Do not consent to searches and know your rights.

My dad is a high ranking cop of 28 years and he used that make you talk and catch you crap all my life. Best way to avoid it, SHUT UP AND SAY NOTHING.

You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say CAN and WILL (not maybe) be used against you in a court of law.






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Re: UE Dealing with police
< Reply # 19 on 8/29/2008 5:48 AM >
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Posted by Drooldog
Don't say shit thats what you can do. Do not consent to searches and know your rights.

My dad is a high ranking cop of 28 years and he used that make you talk and catch you crap all my life. Best way to avoid it, SHUT UP AND SAY NOTHING.

You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say CAN and WILL (not maybe) be used against you in a court of law.


you speak the truth ...

answer questions with a simple yes/no answer... do not give more detail than necessary. do not offer anything.

I've had to give a statement before involving myself and school and "homemade fireworks" without a lawyer... I dodged getting arrested because everything I had done was protected by 1st amendment. the best they could have come up with was a "breach of peace" however I didn't technically breach the peace... the school chose to yank me out of class and disturb my peace 25 minutes before my study hall... and later on when fighting expulsion I was facing a Disruption of classroom environment/Technical Use AUP violation.

I still have civil rights violations made by the school administration against me as well... 2 left years to file suit

Never say anything self incriminating
repeat
DO NOT ADMIT TO ANYTHING!!!
repeat
DO NOT TALK TO THE POLICE!!!




"No risk, no reward, no fun."
"Go all the way or walk away"
escensi omnis...
UER Forum > Private Boards Index > Section One Extreme UE and SPY talk > UE Dealing with police (Viewed 10179 times)
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