Ok, I got sick of my tablet pc. I was sending it in every few weeks to get the screen cleaned and once my warranty would be over I would have to start paying for that. So I sold it. Now, I want to get a new laptop, but I cannot decide between this:



or this:



The Thinkpad t60p runs windows, is more customizable, and easily upgradable; but, the macbook is much cheaper (by $400) for only a little less power, comes with a free iPod, and is very, very, sexy (only because it's black).

Thinkpad Specs:

Processor: Intel Core Duo processor T2500 (2GHz, 2MB L2, 667MHz FSB )
OS: Genuine Windows XP Professional
Memory: 1GBMB PC2-5300 CL5 NP DDR2 SDRAM SODIMM
Graphics: 256MB ATI Mobility FireGL V5200
Hard drive: 80 GB 5400 rpm SATA Hard Drive
Optical device: ThinkPad 4x Max DVD Recordable Dual Layer Ultrabay Slim Drive
Display type: 14.1 inch SXGA+ (1400x1050) TFT
Battery: ThinkPad 9 Cell Li-Ion Battery
wireless LAN adapters: Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG Mini-PCI Express Adapter

MacBook Specs:

Processor: 2.0GHz Intel Core Duo
OS: OSX Tiger
Memory: 1GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x512
Graphics No clue
Hard drive 120GB Serial ATA drive
Optical device: That superdrive thing.
Display type: 13.3 inch 1280 x 800
Battery: No clue
wireless LAN adapters: AirPort Extreme Card & Bluetooth (I assume this works with 802.11g)

The warranty on the Apple is much cheaper too....

I'm leaning towards the the apple as it is only 1900-ish dollars compared to the 2250ish dollars that the thinkpad may run me.

I'm really a windows man, but that mac is looking really tempting. I already have an older windows laptop, so why not eh?

You can run windows on the mac too if you want.

If you want to game at all (even by installing Windows) the MacBook is out. It only has a shared memory video card and will have very poor 3D performance.

Also, IBMs (*cough* Lenovos ) are nice, but if you are ok with a PC why not shop around more? I have a Dell 6400 (E1505 to the Americans) with almost identical specs to that t60p (it's bulkier, but otherwise close) and I paid $1700 CAD. Not saying you should get a Dell, just giving an example.

Posted by Washu If you want to game at all (even by installing Windows) the MacBook is out. It only has a shared memory video card and will have very poor 3D performance. Also, IBMs (*cough* Lenovos ) are nice, but if you are ok with a PC why not shop around more? I have a Dell 6400 (E1505 to the Americans) with almost identical specs to that t60p (it's bulkier, but otherwise close) and I paid $1700 CAD. Not saying you should get a Dell, just giving an example.

I agree, as much as MS pisses me, XP Pro is still my weapon of choice for none dedicated use. As much as I hate Sony they have a very sweet line of high performance dual core laptops. Their LCD screen is like a quarter inch thick. It's back lite with LEDs. R&D researchers love these Sony's. I was looking for a small powerful laptop, but decided to wait until late fall. I would do a lot of R$D before you choose. Make sure to get XP Pro if you choose MS, serial ATA is very nice to have.
http://b2b.sony.co...s/SZ/overview.html



Be warned, Sony is notorious for shitting customer support. I can verify this.

You can run windows on the mac too if you want.

How stable is it?

If you want to game at all (even by installing Windows) the MacBook is out. It only has a shared memory video card and will have very poor 3D performance. Also, IBMs (*cough* Lenovos ) are nice, but if you are ok with a PC why not shop around more? I have a Dell 6400 (E1505 to the Americans) with almost identical specs to that t60p (it's bulkier, but otherwise close) and I paid $1700 CAD. Not saying you should get a Dell, just giving an example.

So if I weren't gaming or doing any other graphics-intensive programs (nothing more than watching a movie or using photoshop) would I regret getting the macbook?

As for a dell, there is no way. I can not stand them.

I agree, as much as MS pisses me, XP Pro is still my weapon of choice for none dedicated use. As much as I hate Sony they have a very sweet line of high performance dual core laptops. Their LCD screen is like a quarter inch thick. It's back lite with LEDs. R&D researchers love these Sony's. I was looking for a small powerful laptop, but decided to wait until late fall. I would do a lot of R$D before you choose. Make sure to get XP Pro if you choose MS, serial ATA is very nice to have. http://b2b.sony.co...s/SZ/overview.html Be warned, Sony is notorious for shitting customer support. I can verify this.

I can agree on the xp pro thing, but it's a laptop and I won't be doing too much stuff with it. I have all the computing power I need right at my fingertips in my room (2x Pentium 4's at 2.8 GHz, and my Athlon 3700+).

The Sony's are nice, but like you said, their support sucks. Apple's customer service is great as long as you have a warranty.

I guess what I am really asking is would I regret getting a mac for doing not much more than some brief photo-editing, watching a movie, listening to music, surfing dredging the internet, and using IM (I'm sure I'll do much more, but that's the basics). Plus, it's a dual core processor which means I can do more than two things at a time which would be quite a luxury.

Posted by Sinister Crayon How stable is it? So if I weren't gaming or doing any other graphics-intensive programs (nothing more than watching a movie or using photoshop) would I regret getting the macbook? As for a dell, there is no way. I can not stand them. I can agree on the xp pro thing, but it's a laptop and I won't be doing too much stuff with it. I have all the computing power I need right at my fingertips in my room (2x Pentium 4's at 2.8 GHz, and my Athlon 3700+). The Sony's are nice, but like you said, their support sucks. Apple's customer service is great as long as you have a warranty. I guess what I am really asking is would I regret getting a mac for doing not much more than some brief photo-editing, watching a movie, listening to music, surfing dredging the internet, and using IM (I'm sure I'll do much more, but that's the basics). Plus, it's a dual core processor which means I can do more than two things at a time which would be quite a luxury.

I may consider a high end 13' Sony. Their that sexy, and light.
I asked to same question myself. Mac is no more secure (maybe less) than I properly configured XP Pro OS. Mac users will have their day(s) of doom with malware. Mac maybe less of a resource hog, but again some that is configuration. I know XP fairly well, and like using it. All my apps run on it, and almost all I'll ever want do too. MS is still the top dog, and most apps are written for it first. Running Windows on Mac sounds cute, but I have my doubts; I'm not in the mood to my machine be a test subject. The biggest kicker is all my machines are running on XP Pro as well. I rather be good at one OS, than half assed at two. Make sure to get the XP OS CD, because you know you'll reload!

Posted by Sinister Crayon So if I weren't gaming or doing any other graphics-intensive programs (nothing more than watching a movie or using photoshop) would I regret getting the macbook?

If you are seriously going to use MacOS most of the time and you are sure that you have no 3D needs then the MacBook would be fine. If you are likely to use XP more then you can get the same specs for less elsewhere.

As for a dell, there is no way. I can not stand them.

That's your call. I'm just saying unless you really want the fingerprint reader of the IBM/Leveno you can get the same for less.

i am a fan of corporate grade laptops so i go to the refurb stores, most of these laptops are a few months old and come right out of the corporate test market, you can get them for a fraction of the original price with full warranty

I may consider a high end 13' Sony. Their that sexy, and light. I asked to same question myself. Mac is no more secure (maybe less) than I properly configured XP Pro OS. Mac users will have their day(s) of doom with malware. Mac maybe less of a resource hog, but again some that is configuration. I know XP fairly well, and like using it. All my apps run on it, and almost all I'll ever want do too. MS is still the top dog, and most apps are written for it first. Running Windows on Mac sounds cute, but I have my doubts; I'm not in the mood to my machine be a test subject. The biggest kicker is all my machines are running on XP Pro as well. I rather be good at one OS, than half assed at two. Make sure to get the XP OS CD, because you know you'll reload!

Macs may not be more secure but they don't advertise themselves as targets like XP does. And besides, almost nobody writes spyware and other shit for macs, and even if they did, they would have to penetrate my NAT hardware firewall, my router, my software firewall, and my antivirus. Most people give up after the first. I know my way around well enough in windows architecture to fix most problems as I've been using them since 3.11. I kinda want to get into other operating systems just to be able to help people who don't use windows. But I probably will be running windows on my main computer for at least a decade unless microsoft takes another blunder.

If you are seriously going to use MacOS most of the time and you are sure that you have no 3D needs then the MacBook would be fine. If you are likely to use XP more then you can get the same specs for less elsewhere.

I want to dive into OSX a bit to get familiar with the stuff so this would be a good way to do it. I don't envision myself gaming on this thing either so thank you.

That's your call. I'm just saying unless you really want the fingerprint reader of the IBM/Leveno you can get the same for less.

The same specs maybe but not the quality. In the windows laptop market, Thinkpads = Thor. Seriously, the things are just about short of indestructable. (figure of speech)

i am a fan of corporate grade laptops so i go to the refurb stores, most of these laptops are a few months old and come right out of the corporate test market, you can get them for a fraction of the original price with full warranty

I agree on coporate quality computers, the price is right and the quality always seems top notch.

Thanks for the help guys, I'll report back soon with the results.

So, I'm about to order, but I cannot decide if I want to pay the extra 360 bucks for apple to throw in 2 GB of RAM (which is an insane amount of money) or if I should just buy my own. So I am just wondering if this RAM Would work in the Black Macbook. Thanks a bunch.

Anyways, got the MacBook. Only have one problem as of now. I can't connect to my Windows shared folders. The Windows computer shows up in the workgroup, but I cannot connect to it. The funny thing is, I can connect to my Mac through the Windows computer. (I already tried doing the apple+k and then typing in smb://192.168.0.xxx/c$ and that did not work either)

i know on windows servers you have to enable mac sharing, ive never been able to connect to a windows workstation OS from my mac

Posted by Sinister Crayon Anyways, got the MacBook. Only have one problem as of now. I can't connect to my Windows shared folders. The Windows computer shows up in the workgroup, but I cannot connect to it. The funny thing is, I can connect to my Mac through the Windows computer. (I already tried doing the apple+k and then typing in smb://192.168.0.xxx/c$ and that did not work either)

Wahoo! A new silicon play thing! Fun, fun!

Running any software firewalls? Sounds like a set-up/settings problem. Can the MS OS network to other machines OK? Network configuration isn't my strong point, but you'll track it down sooner or latter.

Posted by blackhawk Wahoo! A new silicon play thing! Fun, fun!

*Sinister Crayon pulls mind out of gutter.

Oh yes it is. It's like Windows Media Centre (but ten times better and is without DRM) + An operating system that won't fuck itself over when you leave the room to get coffee.

Running any software firewalls? Sounds like a set-up/settings problem. Can the MS OS network to other machines OK? Network configuration isn't my strong point, but you'll track it down sooner or latter.

All software firewalls have been configured for smb and file sharing. The windows pc can access any ccomputer in the house (including mac), and all of the pc's in the house can access it. So I can connect from windows to mac, but not mac to windows.

I've been sifting through internet forums and it turns out that many others have this problem (usually 2k3 Server, and XP), Microsoft said it may be registry problems as I have Symantec Corporate AV installed and give me a fix for the registry but that did not work.

From what it looks like it is a problem with Tiger, but it is rumored to be on the fix list for Leopard so I'll just upgrade then.

Post by nostra-YOUPPI! I know on windows servers you have to enable mac sharing, I've never been able to connect to a windows workstation OS from my mac.

I tried connecting to a spare machine with 2k3 running on it, pretty sure I had mac sharing on but I could be wrong...

Sinister Crayon goes back to google and starts another search.

Posted by Sinister Crayon *Sinister Crayon pulls mind out of gutter. Oh yes it is. It's like Windows Media Centre (but ten times better and is without DRM) + An operating system that won't fuck itself over when you leave the room to get coffee. All software firewalls have been configured for smb and file sharing. The windows pc can access any ccomputer in the house (including mac), and all of the pc's in the house can access it. So I can connect from windows to mac, but not mac to windows. I've been sifting through internet forums and it turns out that many others have this problem (usually 2k3 Server, and XP), Microsoft said it may be registry problems as I have Symantec Corporate AV installed and give me a fix for the registry but that did not work. From what it looks like it is a problem with Tiger, but it is rumored to be on the fix list for Leopard so I'll just upgrade then. I tried connecting to a spare machine with 2k3 running on it, pretty sure I had mac sharing on but I could be wrong... Sinister Crayon goes back to google and starts another search.

Norton is banned here, as is WMP as MS are pigs about DRM, and don't support red book. It slowed all my machines, sometimes to a crawl, and didn't protect well either. No idea how to work with a Mac, but my XP OS's do fine most of the time.

You could reload and see if it's working with just the basic OS, and drivers, if worse comes to worse. Many times in XP the problem is a setting (sometimes in the registry) that has been altered by poorly written software, sometimes when it's loaded, other times when uninstalling it. Not sure how common this is with Macs.

Posted by blackhawk Norton is banned here, as is WMP as MS are pigs about DRM, and don't support red book. It slowed all my machines, sometimes to a crawl, and didn't protect well either. No idea how to work with a Mac, but my XP OS's do fine most of the time. You could reload and see if it's working with just the basic OS, and drivers, if worse comes to worse. Many times in XP the problem is a setting (sometimes in the registry) that has been altered by poorly written software, sometimes when it's loaded, other times when uninstalling it. Not sure how common this is with Macs.

I hate Norton, but the plain old Symantec AV isn't even noticable unless I'm doing a full scan or something. XP isn't a bad OS, but it has a tendency to fall apart on me. Right now whenever I power off or restart, it will go through the shutdown process, the screen will go blank, but the computer won't turn off (or in the case of restarting, nothing will show up on the screen again). Turning the monitor off and then back on does not seem to work either. Or the stupid little WGA thing thinks my computer is not activated and keeps telling to activate it, but whenever I go to activate it, the WPA says its activated. System restore doesn't seem to work either because I can't restart my computer the whole way... GRRRRR. I could understand my computer acting this way if it had a virus or something, but not when its a near fresh install (2 months).

Posted by Sinister Crayon I hate Norton, but the plain old Symantec AV isn't even noticable unless I'm doing a full scan or something. XP isn't a bad OS, but it has a tendency to fall apart on me. Right now whenever I power off or restart, it will go through the shutdown process, the screen will go blank, but the computer won't turn off (or in the case of restarting, nothing will show up on the screen again). Turning the monitor off and then back on does not seem to work either. Or the stupid little WGA thing thinks my computer is not activated and keeps telling to activate it, but whenever I go to activate it, the WPA says its activated. System restore doesn't seem to work either because I can't restart my computer the whole way... GRRRRR. I could understand my computer acting this way if it had a virus or something, but not when its a near fresh install (2 months).

Os the XP machine using a Force 4 chipset? If so shutdown issue is definitely a driver problem in the RAID drivers; the most recent drivers aren't loaded. They will not automatically load with a Nvidia update either; you will have to load it manually in Device manager. This is a common problem on Asus mobos, maybe others.

After loading all your programs always do a "SFC /purgecache", followed by a "SFC /scannow". Use the "/purgecache" command before doing the scannow. I do it every now and then when I suspect system files have been damaged, deleted, or altered. Third party software is responsible for almost all the problems with XP, this includes malware. A fully and properly configured XP pro system is very stable. If the SFC /scannow option doesn't work, and a system restore if active doesn't help, reloaded is the easiest fix. If faulty drivers are to blame, or if the malware is in your data files, the fun continues. Uninstalling programs really gums up the registry; try not to load software your not sure of. It's best to reload every 6-12 months on very active machines.

Posted by blackhawk It's best to reload every 6-12 months on very active machines.

Meh

I've been running the SAME copy of windows XP for the last 2 years on an extremly active machine to say the least and it's still as fast as it was from day one. No error messages and boots fast.

Posted by Professor Chaos Meh I've been running the SAME copy of windows XP for the last 2 years on an extremly active machine to say the least and it's still as fast as it was from day one. No error messages and boots fast.

Eh, I got one here. 1.5 years, but it's still reload time. It's impossible to keep the registry from getting bloated/corrupted if you uninstall programs. Even system restore is not fool proof, and it slows Windows down. It's hard to believe that ANY XP system that's used, and interfaced with the internet would not benefit from a reload every 6-12 months. Error messages? There's a service you can disable, I run it for kicks, but it rarely helps. Opening in Safe Mode gives you an idea of how much overhead is present even in ideal circumstances in normal mode.

If you like gaming, get XP. If it's price you're worried about, find a store that sells it without the software and install an Open Source OS; *NIX machines can do anything any other OS can do as good as or better except when it comes to gaming. I'm surprised this hasn't been suggested yet considering the fact he was worried about price in the first place.

Though, if you wanted us to choose from the choices you gave, I recommend the one that comes with XP. Not that I hate Macs (I love OS X more than any Windows machine), I would just rather the hardware that is made from separate companies that are forced to compete.