http://www.newsdai...militarytrials.xml
"A last-minute addition to a federal spending bill at the end of the last U.S. Congress now makes civilians eligible for military courts-martial...."

http://english.alj...4-4A54501B7DFA.htm
"US terror trials to allow hearsay ... evidence obtained through coercive interrogation techniques"

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Also, Bush uses another Patriot Act clause to force 7 US attorneys to resign, to be replaced by hand-appointed ones who will have a perpetual posting instead of the 120 days.
http://www.tpmmuck...rchives/002349.php

Wow. . . .
Welcome back Beryl.

Kinda makes me wanna sing out loud:

O beautiful for pilgrim feet
Whose stern, impassioned stress
A thoroughfare for freedom beat
Across the wilderness!
America! America!
God mend thine every flaw,
Confirm thy soul in self-control,
Thy liberty in law!

Indeed.

Meh. I'm not at all surprised. Lets not forget that the US is technically still under martial law. Roosevelt declared it, and it has never been rescinded. This merely makes official what has been possible for 60 years. See the fringe on US flags in certain situations.

Posted by Jonsered Meh. I'm not at all surprised. Lets not forget that the US is technically still under martial law. Roosevelt declared it, and it has never been rescinded. This merely makes official what has been possible for 60 years. See the fringe on US flags in certain situations.

Convenient, that Roosevelt Martial Law thing.

And people called me stupid and crazy when I said (outright) that the US is a police state. I said that in 1984, after I finished reading some book. Can't recall the title...Winston-Smith...something about someone's big brother. Fuck...what was it called?

All Western nations are thinly veiled police states.
We, in the US have not really been The United StateS described in our Constitution since Abe Lincoln abrogated it during our civil war 140 years ago. We have been THE United STATE.
At least we have guns, state militias, and a long history of violent civil disobedience.

Posted by DevilC All Western nations are thinly veiled police states. We, in the US have not really been The United StateS described in our Constitution since Abe Lincoln abrogated it during our civil war 140 years ago. We have been THE United STATE. At least we have guns, state militias, and a long history of violent civil disobedience.

You're right. We're also not a democracy either, we're a republic. Which I find hilarious when the US goes around the world preaching democracy.
There hasn't been a pure democracy since ancient times.
Also, get this...you can actually be tried under Maritime law, which is even worse. You know the little yellow or gold fringe around the edge of a flag in a courtroom? That signifies that maritime law can be used. Maritime law states that for crimes defined as treasonous or treacherous, you can be summarily executed without a jury trial.

Shael

Posted by KublaKhan Kinda makes me wanna sing out loud: O beautiful for pilgrim feet Whose stern, impassioned stress A thoroughfare for freedom beat Across the wilderness! America! America! God mend thine every flaw, Confirm thy soul in self-control, Thy liberty in law! Indeed.

america, for smoggy skies,
insecticided grain,
for strip mined mountains majesty,
above the asphalt plain, america, america,
man sheds his waste on thee.
and hides the pines, with billboard signs,
from sea to oily sea
-george carlin

I can't seem to find these rules that state this.

Posted by Agent Skelly I can't seem to find these rules that state this.

Go look at the US Patriot Act and the successor to it and read between the lines. It basically says that any criminal act is considered "treason" and in certain times, those crimes are tried in front of military tribunals and...summary executions can happen, as this is part of military law. It basically says that anyone committing acts considered treasonous can be tried according to military law.
The little gold fringe around the flag in a courtroom signifies maritime law, or naval law. Military law. Basically the same.

Shael

Fuck, im scared. Maybe KK or earthworm will hold me.

This one restores a little of the faith that I once had in the US Government.
In late 2006, Congress revised the Posse Comitatus Act and the Insurrection Act to make it far easier for a president to declare martial law. These revisions were quietly repealed earlier this year. Now...I'm still scratching my head as to why it wasn't made very public except in some blogs and small news items.
It still doesn't help much because Posse Comitatus is so diluted and screwed up with the Patriot Act and other legislation that this law being repealed doesn't make much difference. But it at least shows that there are champions for state's rights still out there. Because basically...the revisions that were enacted and then repealed allowed the president to order the military to just take over the entire country in a "terrorist incident" situation. Someone asked how many pipe bombs it would take...I'm guessing the answer wouldn't have been very many.

Shael

Posted by big dave Fuck, im scared. Maybe KK or earthworm will hold me.

We can share a cell in the internment camp!

Hopefully everybody saw this today.
http://news.bbc.co...ericas/7547261.stm
Something that restores a little of my faith in the judicial system, even when it's under a military tribunal.
The guy only drove him around and Bin Laden basically washed his hands of him.
I'm still waiting for what happens to the "mastermind" of this whole terror thing and it ain't Bin Laden, that's for certain. I bet GW gets a full pardon.

Shael

...and that BS thing about how "they hate you because of what you have". Well, ironically, you don't win when they stop hating you. They stop hating you once you don't have anything left, then they win.

Posted by KublaKhan Convenient, that Roosevelt Martial Law thing. And people called me stupid and crazy when I said (outright) that the US is a police state. I said that in 1984, after I finished reading some book. Can't recall the title...Winston-Smith...something about someone's big brother. Fuck...what was it called?

Big Brother exists, he is watching, in one way or another. There's computers out there that track every movement you make financially, electronically on the internet and in some cases, even the books you buy and take out of the library. You do something that looks "suspicious", they can wiretap and post surveillance without informing you, if they find you've done something wrong, they arrest you. Depending upon the crime, you could go as far as Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
It sounds like something out of 1984, but it exists, it's real. You send money to the wrong people, you're going to be investigated and possibly imprisoned without due process. Fuck the Bill of Rights, you have no rights.
The next step is coming, with border enforcement, ELicenses and passports. Things keep deteriorating, you'll have to show ID to get out of your own state and into another.
Why do you think police officers demand identification from everyone in a vehicle during a traffic stop? "Standard Procedure" my ass. They run everyone's licenses, if they find out you're wanted on a warrant or for questioning or something, they run your ass in, not just the driver.
What really scares me...retinal scanners like in "Minority Report".
Sure, I'm paranoid, I may be a little nuts, or a lot nuts, depending on your point of view, but they're watching and I hope and pray to whatever passes for a God that it comes to a screeching halt, but I honestly don't believe it will. If anything, it's going to get worse.

Shael

I am honestly not as concerned as some people about this kind of thing. When it all comes down to it, the government can only compel us to comply if we agree. No government can oppress the population when 65% of the populace is armed and pissed. Part of my job is working closely with border area law enforcement and certain military, and it has been made clear to me that they WIL NOT collect guns from citizens. Flat out won't do it. When you become an officer in the US military, you swear an oath, not to the the President or government, but to protect and uphold the Constitution of the United States. Now, we saw a bit of this during Katrina, but we are talking about different types of units here. The recent Supreme Court decision making private ownership of firearms an INDIVIDUAL right makes it part of the Constitution. Devil C may argue with me here, and he may be right about special ops units and certain Federal agencies confiscating guns, but there aren't enough soldiers and cops to hold us all down. I live in a very small town, and even here we have literally thousands of military vets, and thousands more simple firearms owners. It would take several battalions to make us comply with any order we disagreed with, and we don't have that many battalions to go around.

Yes, they can find you with a satellite from space, but they still have to have boots on the ground to make you obey.

Posted by Jonsered Yes, they can find you with a satellite from space, but they still have to have boots on the ground to make you obey.

And most of the people will. Because "they are making it safer" or "stopping the terrorists" or "keeping the drugs out". Sorry, but the majority of the people are not interested in freedom. Freedom takes work, and it's hard, and we could get busted, hurt, killed ect...

As long as junk food is cheap, pizza come to their door, and TV is available, there will be no revolution. And without the spirit of revolution there will be no real resistance when they come for us. If I'm here, I'll end up in prison or dead. I hope to be sitting far away watching it all end over the internet. Either way I now think I my live long enough to see the end.

Posted by underdark And most of the people will. Because "they are making it safer" or "stopping the terrorists" or "keeping the drugs out". Sorry, but the majority of the people are not interested in freedom. Freedom takes work, and it's hard, and we could get busted, hurt, killed ect... As long as junk food is cheap, pizza come to their door, and TV is available, there will be no revolution. And without the spirit of revolution there will be no real resistance when they come for us. If I'm here, I'll end up in prison or dead. I hope to be sitting far away watching it all end over the internet. Either way I now think I my live long enough to see the end.

I honestly get scared when I travel with going through security and all. Hell, for all I know, I'm probably being watched right now.

I don't read mainstream books, I don't go to mainstream websites, I stay on the edge of things. There are nuts and crackpots out there, there always have been, you know, the guys that scream the sky is falling constantly. But when their sentiments are being echoed by people that are mainstream, like former Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney with the voter scandals and other issues she's been involved with, then I think somebody's on to something.

It scares me that one of these days, somebody could be knocking at my door because I bought the wrong book, watched the wrong movie, downloaded the wrong data or went to the wrong website. Stuff that should be covered by freedom of speech isn't anymore. People aren't allowed to write what they want or say what they want because they are literally afraid of what could happen to them. All you have to do is just say hello or stop to talk on the street to the wrong person and you can get hauled in for questioning.

We've forgotten where we came from, we've forgotten where this country came from, where our government came from. Instead, we've allowed it to become lord and master over our lives and in the last 8 years, it's gotten worse than I ever thought it could be. George Orwell must be rolling over in his grave about now.

Shael

Posted by Shael There are nuts and crackpots out there, there always have been, you know, the guys that scream the sky is falling constantly. But when their sentiments are being echoed by people that are mainstream, like former Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney with the voter scandals and other issues she's been involved with, then I think somebody's on to something. Shael

Personal opinion- Cynthia McKinney wouldn't know mainstream if she was hip deep in it. She is banging Mr Peanut she is so fuckin nuts.