For the last couple of years, my father-in-law has played very roughly with my daughter (almost 3) and my niece (3-1/2)

He is constantly told he is too rough, he will hurt them. There have been lots of bumps and bruises, and pissed-off little girls... but he refuses to listen.

Last week while on vacation, we had to take our 3 yr old to the emergency room in Myrtle Beach. Her grandpa (known as Pipi to the children) dislocated her elbow. He feels bad, but does not understand why I am angry with him. 10 minutes prior to the accident, there was a more minor accident and he was told to stop, and he didn't. Now I've put my foot down and have stated, she is my daughter, I will decide if she can play rough (she can't) He does the whole... "I raised four kids, you don't tell me what to do"

Anyway, we left our vacation early to escape him (it is his condo anyway)

I always objected to the rough-housing, but never truly stopped it before now. He is very angry.... I don't believe that I'm wrong, any opinions???

I feel he was warned many times, was given the benefit of the doubt that he wouldn't actually hurt her, now she required medical aid, it is done.

Anyone else have to stand-up to the grandparents?

Note: we were also horrified to return from emergency to find grandma and grandpa asleep on their bed, with our 8 month old inbetween them. We got upset and they said that their grand-daughters (my niece, my 3 yr old, and my 8 month old) have always slept in bed with them, this was news to us. We have told them that if they refuse to stop that practice, we won't be letting the kids stay with them anymore. They said we were ungrateful for all the babysitting and that we didn't trust them. Apparantly if you never suffocate a child in over 30 years of parenting, you never will. By that theory, I suppose I could drive around drunk all week and if I don't hit anything, I guess it is okay to drive around drunk whenever I want to... it will be safe!

YES we've had to put our foot down with my husband's mother.

She has this giant, stupid cat. We have a cat too, she weighs in at 7 lbs, and is fully declawed.

Her beast of a cat is near 30 lbs, has all claws and giant teeth.

We live with our cat who knows our baby. Her stupid ass cat has NEVER seen a baby let alone been around one.

She refuses to put the cat in another room when we visit. So, we don't visit.

If she wants to eliminate time with her granddaughter over a cat, then so be it.

Plus, i kinda hate her anyway. Works for me!

I had an issue when my 1st daughter was very young, and my inlaws would have a few beers while watching her. I did not approve of this at all... just incase there was an emergency, what the hell would they do having more than a few beers in their systems.

The turning point was when my daughter was 9 months old and I came over and saw my Mother-in-law in the pool with my daughter and a beer in hand. I told her that there will be NO drinking while watching my baby, or you won't be able to watch her.

It was a very difficult conversation to have because I love my in-laws to death, and I didn't really WANT to keep my daughter away from them.

Wow, tough call.

I completely understand your concern if your child has been hurt. The grandparents should definitely know better.

In general however, I will grudgingly cede to my grandparents style. When I learned to swim, my grandad literally threw me in the pool (age 3) and said "He'll be fine." I was. He gave me a sip of West Virginia White Lightning at age 4. I had my first mixed drink with him at age 6 or 7. He took me on overnight hunting trips before I turned 8, and even though I fell down a small embankment, there was no permanent damage. His 12 gauge shotgun kicked me so hard when I shot it at age 9 that it knocked me on my ass and blackened both my eyes. I survived. I slept with my parents or grandparents every night until I was old enough to need a bed of my own. Nobody ever smothered me. Hell, my paternal grandfather drank a fifth of whiskey every day of my life, and yet, when I needed him, he was always there. Every time they said I would be fine, I was.

I think to an extent, we are raising a generation of physically weak and coddled children. For 10,000 years the human race lived hard, but we lived. Our constitutions and bodies were strong. My wife has raised her children (my step kids) soft and easy, and it shows in every facet of their lives. Neither of them has any toughness or ability to deal with difficult situations. Their answer to a little pain is to cry and quit. You will have to make your own decision here, but I'm not sure I really see a problem.

Posted by Jonsered Wow, tough call. I completely understand your concern if your child has been hurt. The grandparents should definitely know better. In general however, I will grudgingly cede to my grandparents style. When I learned to swim, my grandad literally threw me in the pool (age 3) and said "He'll be fine." I was. He gave me a sip of West Virginia White Lightning at age 4. I had my first mixed drink with him at age 6 or 7. He took me on overnight hunting trips before I turned 8, and even though I fell down a small embankment, there was no permanent damage. His 12 gauge shotgun kicked me so hard when I shot it at age 9 that it knocked me on my ass and blackened both my eyes. I survived. I slept with my parents or grandparents every night until I was old enough to need a bed of my own. Nobody ever smothered me. Hell, my paternal grandfather drank a fifth of whiskey every day of my life, and yet, when I needed him, he was always there. Every time they said I would be fine, I was. I think to an extent, we are raising a generation of physically weak and coddled children. For 10,000 years the human race lived hard, but we lived. Our constitutions and bodies were strong. My wife has raised her children (my step kids) soft and easy, and it shows in every facet of their lives. Neither of them has any toughness or ability to deal with difficult situations. Their answer to a little pain is to cry and quit. You will have to make your own decision here, but I'm not sure I really see a problem.

I'll agree with almost of everything you say, save of course for the boldly highlighted text, electrified, as it were, in my usual style as a pre-text for wild hyperbole.

Kids are coddled these days. That's what happens in times of peace. Daddies aren't killed off to allow children...boys, especially...to become men on their own...or at least to become men as an impulsive rebellion against their mothers constant and unending coddling.

Drives me fucking crazy to watch some parents with their kids. Was a time when you sent the children out in the morning, you'd see them at lunch, and then you'd see them when the streetlights came on. What the fuck they (we...kids of my generation and before) did during those hours would likely have peeled the flesh off a modern parent. Our play was unsupervised, filled with danger (real or imagined) and more often than not, some stranger would offer us candy. Funny thing is...we were a lot more street-proofed in those days than children seemingly are today.

Shit...where was I? Right. We even got into fights, and usually with our best friends. Fat lips, black eyes, maybe a chipped tooth. The guy you fought would more than likely be having hot dogs with you at your place the next day. Or maybe his place. We got over our anger pretty fast, and the cops were never called to sort things out. Mainly because we were scared shitless of our fathers.

Funny thing is...and I'm just realizing this after all these years...my pro-feminist spouse will tell our son that he'd better straighten up and fly right or 'you're going to have to deal with your father if you don't smarten up' and that generally tends to settle things rather efficiently.

Christ...this is a good rant...

...right then. I think where I'm going to disagree with you, Jonsered, is on the arm-dislocation thing, viz. a viz. a much larger, stronger person versus a much smaller, weaker, and inexperienced child.

Gramps had better straighten up and fly right with respect to how conducts his physical play with the kids. Bruises and scrapes and dislocations are more than a bit of rough-housing. My thinking is that the play becomes more aggressive as the child grows, and thus so does the risk of more serious injury.

I'm surprised no one in the ER asked how the child was injured.

(8) different people in the ER asked how my daughter was injured, we told them the truth. She answered for herself as well.... "Pipi was too rough when we played" and "Pipi was crying when I hurt my arm"

I agree that kids are over-protected, generally not our daughter, she has more freedom then most 3 year olds. She is very independent (for a 3 year old) and can play by herself for hours. She gets bruised and bumped all the time... the difference is that her Pipi is around 300 lbs, she is 26 lbs. He plays with her as if she were 10 years old, she is only 3. There is always a line, if my parents knew everything I was doing out of their sight, they would have been very concerned, but out of sight: out of mind. When my parents witnessed potentially dangerous actions, they put a stop to it, that is a parent's job.

As a parent, one of my responsibilies is to teach my children. At such a young age my daughter has yet to understand the seriousness of injury. I must teach her safe practices and habits... wearing a bike helmet, looking before crossing a road, swimming only with an adult. When she travels out of my sight, I expect her to bend / brake my rules... that is part of growing up. Hopefully, if I've done my job correctly, she will understand some rules / habits are important to follow, such as not running accross an interstate. So she may break other rules from time to time, how many kids have their bike helmets hanging from the handle bars as they ride down the street? But I can only hope she learns from me the value of her life and makes wise decisions to help protect it. No one can elliminate all dangers, and part of life is risk and reward. Those parents who attempt to 'cocoon' their children are robbing them of important life experiences.

However, a 300lb 55 year old needs to understand basic physics.....

300lb of fat and muscle will always pose an un-neccessary danger to a 26lb little girl. The key factor..... un-neccessary danger. There are plenty of other ways to play that are not as risky. She was actually injured before we finally stopped the actions, we gave the opportunity, we took it away after she had to receive medical aid.



Note: I don't believe any person can safely sleep with a baby, that is just a stupid risk. We all roll / toss / turn when we sleep, it is far too easy to suffocate or crush an infant (or even a 3 year old, yet far less likely) when sleeping. I'm not over-protective here, I just love my kids and will not subject them to a high percentage risk.

Posted by KublaKhan ...right then. I think where I'm going to disagree with you, Jonsered, is on the arm-dislocation thing, viz. a viz. a much larger, stronger person versus a much smaller, weaker, and inexperienced child. Gramps had better straighten up and fly right with respect to how conducts his physical play with the kids. Bruises and scrapes and dislocations are more than a bit of rough-housing. My thinking is that the play becomes more aggressive as the child grows, and thus so does the risk of more serious injury.

I don't think I stated my point properly. I absolutely agree that Grandpa injuring the child is over the top. I don't think the girl needs a dislocated arm to get tough. Even for me, thats too much.

Back on the original issue, I'm fortunate that both sets of grandparents are more than willing to do things our way. It's probably helped that we've all viewed it not as a case of "our way is better", but as keeping things consistent for the kids.

(our way is better, though )

I don't know if that's an approach that can help you deal with the situation at all - "we don't allow that, so please don't do it either, so the kids learn what's acceptable"