People must think it's a personal thing when threads get locked, and I must disagree. IMO: Threads are locked according to the site creator's rules and site TOS, in conjunction with the individual enforcer's point of view on what does or does not comply with said rules. These rules are also enforced to prevent users from going too far (thus getting banned or hurting other users) before they get a chance to do it.

I for one think it's ridiculous that a pissed off forum even has to exist on a website like this one. This is a hobby that ties us all together, whether you prefer massive industrial infrastructure or foundations in the middle of the woods. Hobbies are supposed to be things that bring people together, not rend them apart. Maybe people are blinded by their own personal pride? I'm really trying to understand what makes a community so cut-throat. I'll save my breath on how we all know the nature of this hobby, how vandalism goes hand in hand with abandoned buildings. We all know these things, and to an extent must accept them. There's just no way around it.

Of course people have different ethics, such is the nature of hobbies in general. I camp a lot, and I try to leave as small a print as possible, whereas the next guy might show up in his RV and totally trash a pristine spot. But other then frowning upon it and having laws made against it, there's not much else I can do except resort to savagery and pick a fight with the guy. And where does that get me? Further back then where I started, with sight of my cause most likely lost, and certainly no cooperation from this guy.

When people let anger and pride blind them, it only brings the same back in effect. Can't we all see that bashing people over their ethics, which is undoubtedly in most cases just going to provoke them to retaliate, is absolutely useless? Are we so proud that we have to PROVE to others we're man or woman enough to call somebody out for breaking our personal code of ethics?

What does it prove? That we won't stand for it? This is absolutely a wonderful and noble cause, but there MUST be a better way then cursing, calling names, and battles of wits. If we were to work together couldn't we figure out a better way? Would it be possible for a community such as this to even work together? Imagine what might be accomplished....

I have so much more to say but I'll save it for possible replies. I'll end by saying I do in fact love each and every one of you, for we're all in this together, and we are all essentially linked by a common love in one way or another. Call me emo, call me a loser, tell me I'm fighting for a lost cause. I'm not the first to say these things, and probably won't be the last. But if I can reach a single person my words here were not typed in vain. Just remember that if you're not part of the solution, you are essentially part of the problem, even if you don't realize it. And that problem over all else is the back and forth hatred that destroys our unity. Even if unity is not your cause... at least let it be civility!!

We are all explorers in this grand scheme called life, and we all must explore together. And for that reason alone we should put aside the hate. Thanks for reading.

I went over to the sargent, said, "Sargeant, you got a lot a damn gall to
ask me if I've rehabilitated myself, I mean, I mean, I mean that just, I'm
sittin' here on the bench, I mean I'm sittin here on the Group W bench
'cause you want to know if I'm moral enough join the army, burn women,
kids, houses and villages after bein' a litterbug." He looked at me and
said, "Kid, we don't like your kind, and we're gonna send you fingerprints
off to Washington."

And friends, somewhere in Washington enshrined in some little folder, is a
study in black and white of my fingerprints. And the only reason I'm
singing you this song now is cause you may know somebody in a similar
situation, or you may be in a similar situation, and if your in a
situation like that there's only one thing you can do and that's walk into
the shrink wherever you are ,just walk in say "Shrink, You can get
anything you want, at Alice's restaurant.". And walk out. You know, if
one person, just one person does it they may think he's really sick and
they won't take him. And if two people, two people do it, in harmony,
they may think they're both faggots and they won't take either of them.
And three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people walking in
singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and walking out. They may think it's an
organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day,I said
fifty people a day walking in singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and
walking out.

And friends they may thinks it's a movement.

And that's what it is , the Alice's Restaurant Anti-Massacre Movement, and
all you got to do to join is sing it the next time it come's around on the
guitar.

With feeling. So we'll wait for it to come around on the guitar, here and
sing it when it does. Here it comes.

You can get anything you want, at Alice's Restaurant
You can get anything you want, at Alice's Restaurant

I'll save my breath on how we all know the nature of this hobby, how vandalism goes hand in hand with abandoned buildings. We all know these things, and to an extent must accept them. There's just no way around it.

K, I'll start off by saying that I usually don't care about vandalism, mostly because it isn't something I encounter very often given the types of places I go. Besides, if local kids get around to trashing a place before I get to see it, then I only have myself to blame, because it's true.. vandalism can go hand in hand with the places we explore, whether they're abandoned or otherwise. When it happens, I don't complain about it, or at least not here. You snooze, you loose.

On the other hand, I don't think that vandalism is something that should go hand in hand with urban explorers. When it involves people on this site, (aka, the online community), it isn't something that people should just sit back and "accept" without comment. You talk about unity, but I don't think we need to make room for people who are routinely damaging places they visit. It's one thing for a bunch of 12 year olds down the street to come in and trash a place. It's another thing entirely when a self-identified urban explorer comes in and does it, especially when they're old enough to know better. These are aren't the sort of people I'm interested in talking to, let alone ever go exploring with.

Rather than berating people here for getting upset about vandalism or for not having a "solution", perhaps you could do better yourself than just telling people to either stop caring or to just get along?

Here's a solution: let's have moderators stop turning a blind eye (or in some cases protecting) vandals who're members of this site. I don't think that's an unreasonable request. Just get rid of them. It won't stop them from doing what they do, but it will prevent this site from becoming a place where new people start thinking that vandalism is acceptable behavior.

I think I can vaguely remember examples of people who have found this site and been "saved."

Like someone who admitted, when they joined, that they had a history of smashing stuff, etc, because they were bored, or their friends did it, but from exposure to UER, have come to understand the point of view that only douchebags do that stuff.

Just throwing it in.

You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. I hope some day you'll join us, and the world will live as one.

This post has some reminders of the "I remember UE" thread. In my opinion it's a bit melodramatic, though I can see the intentions.

I do think that sometimes it is personal when threads get lock, but it's hard to prove otherwise. Think of it the other way, instead of locking a thread because you don't like someone; think of it as NOT LOCKING a thread because it's your friend. Also, just like in any job, people may act on emotions.

Secondly, from my understanding, the Pissed Off forum was not created to break the delicate relationship ties of UER. It was a place to vent about everyday life problems, and should exist on a website that involves a great deal of socializing beyond talking about a hobby.

I'll agree that we are a bit too cut-throat, but I wouldn't expect anything else from the internet. People have left because of this, but people have also returned. That said, the alternative would be nice; however, I doubt it will ever happen.

I agree with micro and would like to add that I think it is funny that the threads that are actually related to exploring in this forum are the ones that are locked.

I also find it odd those ones were deemed offensive and that the Duffy one remains unlocked. Does that mean I can now create threads bashing uer members? That seems like a bigger deal to me than stating that it was an asshole move to destroy that couch, which, by the way, it absolutely was.

It was my understanding that the purpose of the Pissed Off board was to vent and bitch about the lives we all lead. Never did I think that it was to be used to bitch about this board. Granted there are times that threads I have had were locked for reasons that i felt wrong, or unjust, but such is the way life is. Nothing is ever going to go entirely your way and the sooner we all learn that lesson, the closer to happy happy joy joy we'll all be.

Once again, I'll wheel out the argument that what we do is not exploration at all. I feel the consensual title we've given this hobby is a misnomer and is more than a bit misleading. We're not exploring some deep dark jungle, or something... we're merely documenting chunks of the past that are more or less forgotten. We document, photograph and move on. And I honestly think the reason that we do it, other than sheer noseyness, is the fact that in the daily life we inhabit, there is a great deal of tangibility missing from it. We live in an age of plastic, everything moves at the speed of light and for many of us, myself included, finding these pieces of the world's past and documenting them are links to a slower time, a more concrete time. Maybe links us to a time when your role was more defined and your station in life more tangible?

But seeing as you have a board with as many diverse personalities and ages, it's no surprise that disagreements occur. Topics do sometimes get out of hand and devolve into flame wars. The moderators of this board are a check valve to keep everything civil. I can point to several open forums where discussions, just through one or two posts, can turn into pointless flame wars. Just pages and pages of simple namecalling. Yay. Welcome back to high school.

I've been here for almost five years now and have seen UER meltdown several times and it is always the same damn recipe for it. It always involves the moderators and criticism of their performance or, even better, how Avatar-X administers his site. Read that again, 'how Av administers HIS site.'

So, not to be unconstructive, what do you want? Do you want the moderators to let this turn into a free for all? Relax their moderation duties to the point where the inmates are running the asylum (i thought that would be a pertinent example)? If you've got an axe to grind with someone, maybe you should meet them in a chat room, or PM, with your tactical nuclear arsenal of asshole-ishness and have at it. I don't think that bring personal vendettas or personal beefs into a public forum is the best course of action.

That's just my take. Sue me.

I agree with you micro, 100%. Yet it is still very hard to distance urban exploration from vandalism, especially since vandalism is such a broad term. Making an entrance for example, even if you fix it afterward, may be viewed as such.

But yes, obviously blatant vandalism should be punished, and is certainly unacceptable, but I don't think any moderators on this site turn a blind eye to it. Also remember that allusions to; and accusations of; vandalism by members are practically useless without proof, and that most of the time we can't act on them because there is nothing solid. Personal vendettas of members towards other members has sadly made it this way.

I've only been a moderator myself for less than two weeks, and I've been keeping a wide eye on possible vandals, I promise you that. Trust that I'm not berating anybody for getting upset about vandalism... just sincerely looking for help on how to do my job better for the general users.

As for thread locking... Like I said, of course locks and deletions are going to be a problem for different sides of the "line". We as moderators have been given the power to use our own judgment on how to enforce the rules (not without strict guidelines I should mention however), and therefore consistency is not an easy task, which people have to understand. I just know that I try my best not to play favorites, be as fair as possible, and react in a way I think the general consensus would favor. However, it is difficult when no matter what decision you come to makes people upset.

Thanks for all your responses!