As usual, the Dems squeak pathetically while refusing to do anything substantive (hint: “purse strings”) to stop the slide into ever darker levels of fascism while the Reps pledge any measure to defeat Terrrrrrrrrrr.
USA! USA! USA!

FBI to Begin Terrorism Investigations on Americans “Without Any Basis for Suspicion” August 23rd, 2008 // Via: AP:
Proposed rules to help the FBI catch terrorists could lead to innocent Americans being spied upon by government agents or informants “all without any basis for suspicion,” a group of Democratic senators said Wednesday.

The rules, known as the attorney general guidelines, have not been approved or even publicly released yet, but four Democrats joined a growing chorus of lawmakers raising concerns after being briefed on what the guidelines say.

Among their fears: Americans could be targeted in part based on their race, ethnicity or religion — or free speech activities protected by the Constitution.

“As you know, attorney general guidelines were first implemented in the wake of the FBI abuses of the 1960s and 1970s, and serve as one of the most important bulwarks against future abuses,” the senators said in a letter to Attorney General Michael Mukasey.

The four Democrats — Sens. Dick Durbin of Illinois, Russ Feingold of Wisconsin, Edward M. Kennedy of Massachusetts and Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island — indicated they remained concerned even after assurances from officials during the Justice Department briefings.

The lawmakers asked Mukasey to hold off finalizing the rules to allow a public review.

“Given the importance of these guidelines, providing a period of time for public comment would be a reasonable and responsible way to move forward and achieve the best possible end result,” the Democrats wrote.

Earlier this week, Senate Judiciary Chairman Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., and the panel’s top Republican, Sen. Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania, also called for delaying the guidelines.

Justice spokesman Brian Roehrkasse said the department will review the requests. Citing remarks earlier by Mukasey about the new rules, the spokesman said an investigation would not be opened based solely on a person’s race, ethnicity or religion.

“The guidelines will require all activities to have a valid purpose,” Roehrkasse said, adding that the rules will “include robust and effective oversight measures.”

The guidelines are expected to be finalized next week. They do not require congressional approval.

First reported last month by The Associated Press, the rules are intended to update policies governing investigations as the FBI shifts from a traditional crime-fighting agency to one whose top priority is protecting the United States from terrorist attacks.

Currently, the FBI must have evidence or allegations of wrongdoing before opening an investigation of U.S. citizens or legal residents from other countries. As described by some law enforcement officials, the new policy would let agents open preliminary terrorism investigations after mining public records and intelligence to build a profile of traits that, taken together, were deemed suspicious.

The officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly about the rules, said factors that could trigger an inquiry would include travel to regions of the world known for terrorist activity and access to weapons or military training, along with the person’s race or ethnicity.

Following their briefings, the four Democrats said the guidelines would:

_Let the FBI use “a variety of intrusive investigative techniques” with no evidence of possible wrongdoing. The techniques could include: long-term FBI surveillance, interviewing neighbors and work-mates, recruiting informants and searching commercial databases for information on people “all without any basis for suspicion.”

“We are particularly concerned that the draft guidelines might permit an innocent American to be subjected to such intrusive surveillance based in part on race, ethnicity, national origin, religion, or on protected First Amendment activities,” the senators wrote.

_Allow the government to collect foreign intelligence information inside the United States without current legal protections for U.S. citizens or legal residents. The senators noted that the broad term “foreign intelligence” would cover any information relating to the activities of a foreign government, organization or person.

_Allow the information gathered to be broadly shared among government agencies. “We have serious questions about the scope of information sharing as it relates to U.S. persons who are under no suspicion of wrongdoing,” the senators wrote.

Figures...Just fucking figures

Franklin mentioned something about trading liberty for security...

Would someone please teach pols to fuckin read. A little history and alot of the bullshit they pass.





_{all we need is statesmen, all we get is politicians. Figures.}

-- "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
or
-- "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Posted by underdark Franklin mentioned something about trading liberty for security...

You can't help but wonder if 50 years from now our government will be looked as just as big of a terrorist as these other folks we spent so much money trying to find. Our freedom's are slowly being stripped away from us little by little.

Thank god for this. I completely agree with it and think it is about time that this was enacted.


Every single one of us on this forum definitely falls into the category of suspicious behavior and activities. The end result of this will be that their net will be cast much wider, and all of us will be smaller targets in a bigger pond.

Yet another victory for Republican Branded Big Government!

Posted by MutantMandias Yet another victory for Republican Branded Big Government!

With the tacit support of whom...oh, that's right. The Democrat-dominated legislative branch. Seriously, painting this mess as a red/blue issue is bullshit. It's a government vrs citizens issue. If you trust ANY of these asshats with your liberties you will be truly screwed. Both sides have had decades to show any interest in preserving the integrity of the Constitution and have failed spectacularly time and again.

Posted by underdark It's a government vrs citizens issue.

Sure sure. Totally agree. I just can never resist the gem of irony that is Republican limited government.

I usually try to stay optimistic when it comes to politics and keep a moderate point of view but damn, it seems like recently our government just can't get anything right. Congress only actually works a handful of days each year and they are usually so tightly tied to special interest groups they are blinded by the worry of where the finance will come from for their next campaign. Sometimes I just can't help but think our system is broken beyond repair. The two party system we have these days just doesn't seem healthy. Everyone is so caught up in the conservative vs liberal thing and we have some major issues that if they don't get solved soon are really going to screw this country. When things like this come out you can't help but think the damage is already done. Also, I think the founders of our country would be appalled at the state of the union these days.

...and this is surprising how?

I'm with KK on this one. A blind man could have seen this coming.

Ah well. This is why the only firearms I own that are registered are the full autos. I think we are approaching the point where it may be necessary to destroy this village to save it.

Posted by Jonsered I think we are approaching the point where it may be necessary to destroy this village to save it.

Can't argue with that.

It's nice that we have all found something to agree on.

The streets will run with blood.

This has been coming for a long long long time.

Since before 9/11. Try since J. Edgar was head of the FBI. He ordered investigations on people that had no reason to be investigated, he kept files on people that did nothing really wrong. There's a really good documentary that came out on what the FBI managed to do to John Lennon. It's called "The U.S. Vs. John Lennon", I can provide a link to it if anyone's interested. They nearly stopped his emigration to the U.S. in the 1970's, he fought one hell of a war against the FBI and the INS and eventually won.

I shudder to think what could happen when they start investigating regular people. I really do. I thought just being able to get someone investigated by making a phone call was bad. This could be a whole lot worse than that. A whole lot worse. I'm sure they might find something useful, but I don't wanna see my next door neighbor forcefully deported to Guantanamo.

Shael

Obama + shit like this = Communist America.

Communism over fascism any day, comrade.

Posted by MutantMandias Communism over fascism any day, comrade.

How about a bit more freedom? I've about had it with all the -isms and -ologys out there. Could we get a bit of the ol' Bill of Rights going here again instead?

What's that? Pols say no. Well, OK. We understand. So who on Dancing W/T Stars tonight?












_{pass out the mags.
no the good ones.
teflon in the AKs.
black talons for the .45s...}

Posted by underdark How about a bit more freedom? I've about had it with all the -isms and -ologys out there. Could we get a bit of the ol' Bill of Rights going here again instead?

No shit. And which of the two options do you think is more likely to be on the side of civil rights, citizen rights, and human rights?

Posted by MutantMandias No shit. And which of the two options do you think is more likely to be on the side of civil rights, citizen rights, and human rights?

Umm... You know I'm a Libertarian, right?


Or perhaps I'm just looking forward to the idea of armed insurrection...

Posted by underdark armed insurrection...

YES, what's this "armed insurrection" you speak of?