One theme that has come up over and over again with me over the past few months, especially since the financial meltdown and the automakers woes is the incredible bias there is in the automotive field.

I have found on a half dozen forums that those that crow the loudest are the least informed. They go on and on about their imports... It makes those of us who are actually out there doing it more than annoyed, the fact that these people are spouting this bullshit.

A thread recently set me off again... I don't know the member. I've never seen him post before, so maybe I am taking him all wrong. Oh well...

Here's the thing with the auto industry... During the 1970's, everything was crap. I don't care if it wore a Datsun logo, a Toyota logo, Ford, Chevy or Chrysler... it was shit. It was made of crap material and was built to fail. In the 80's, everything was still crap, but it was better built crap. Japanese imports had all the charm of a happy toaster oven and sacrificed power/performance for insane fuel economy. The german cars had a little better styling but had that 'snob' image to get through, well, all of them except for Volkswagen... VW's have always been those alternative hippie cars or for people too cool for a domestic.
But getting back to the Japanese cars... Where was I? Oh yes, everything sucking. I don't care how long the car runs, when you live in a mountainous area and you have to make reservations to climb a hill, maybe you should consider something with a little more motivational testicle.

So everything in the 80's sucked, but we were doing something; we were learning how to go fast without emissions and while getting decent economy. Oh Noes! The Americans are learning how to build cars. And then the 90's came and the competition became fierce. Japanese cars started touting superior reliability against those poorly made domestic cars. And the motoring scribes jumped on the bandwagon of course. Oh and let's not forget those idiots over at Consumer Reports... Fair and accurate reporting my fat ass. You could park a flaming pile of shit in a parking lot, put a Honda emblem on it and they would fall over themselves telling what a superior pile of shit it was to a domestic pile of shit... I'd like to take a flamethrower to the auto staff at consumer reports. But I digress...

In the 1990's, Americans learned how to build decent cars again. Ford and General Motors learned painful lessons about quality and alphabet cars and became to put soul back in. Sure, you laugh at a Cavalier, but in 1995 it was Car Of The Year. It was also sold in Japan as a Toyota. Put that in your Camry and smoke it.
I have a theory about all this reliability bullshit. Look at the cars that Honda and Toyota are touting as uber reliable and look who buys them? Of course they are not going to break because they don't get driven. They are toaster ovens on wheels with the personality of wonder bread. They come in safe sedate colors like beige, or sandalwood, or white and silver... boooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrriing.

And after being a mechanic, I can tell you one thing... they all fucking suck when they break. When I sold auto parts, I used to love selling parts to people with imports... and you would be suprised how much they do break, especially in the northeast with our insane weather and even more insane roads!

Where am I going with this rant? Oh well, I don't know... I suppose i am sucking up bandwidth to bitch bitch bitch about people and their perceptions. People drive a Honda or Yota and automatically, they think they work for Car & Driver or something. Well this plastic is superior to that plastic... Fuck you. Plastic is plastic, douchebag. Sorry, I forgot to mention, I worked in injection molding for three years, also worked in an interior systems plant in tennessee... Your little Toyota, your oh-so-superior holier than thou Toyota had parts come from the same plant your neighbors' 'inferior' GM came from. Oh? You didn't know that?

there are times I feel like I am just beating my head against a Honda fender here (as long as i dented it, that's a good thing)... but my anti-import gene runs deep and mean. Maybe I am the only one old enough to remember the dumping of the 80's... Or maybe I am the only one concerned enough to look into how Japan rigs their currency to keep imports out, or how they manage to rig their currency to maximize profits from exports...

I'm not saying that the auto industry isn't a flea-ridden animal due for a redesign... no no no... what I am saying is that this perception of quality horseshit needs to come to end. In fact, right before the financial meltdown of 2008, Toyota had their nuts on the block for their slipping quality, class action lawsuit about 33 million failed engines, doors falling off Sienna vans due to faulty welds... oh the list goes on and on. They (the imports) didn't start building cars here for the benefit of the US. They started building cars here to get around tariffs and to maximize profits. That's why they are strongly anti-union (after the whole Ford and GM thing, I can almost see that... lol).

Sooooooooooooooooo... in closing... fuck there is no closing. I'm just tired of typing.

What can I say when you're right you're right.

I have nothing but trouble with my Subaru. The second day I had the car on the road, The fucking engine died. $2500 car, Now having to put a $3000 engine in it, TWO DAYS AFTER DRIVING IT...


...I get my exhaust fixed tomorrow.

Posted by Caligula I have nothing but trouble with my Subaru. The second day I had the car on the road, The fucking engine died. $2500 car, Now having to put a $3000 engine in it, TWO DAYS AFTER DRIVING IT... ...I get my exhaust fixed tomorrow.

BLASPHEMY!
IT'S A JAPANESE IMPORT! IT'S THE MOST PERFECT VEHICLE EVER MADE!
THEY NEVER BREAK!

Suckas!

Posted by Caligula I have nothing but trouble with my Subaru. The second day I had the car on the road, The fucking engine died. $2500 car, Now having to put a $3000 engine in it, TWO DAYS AFTER DRIVING IT... ...I get my exhaust fixed tomorrow.

That and the parts for one of those things aren't cheap...such is why it's usually american, since GM and Ford parts are everywhere.

Shael

Only bought the damn thing cause it's good on gas, Or so I thought..
All Wheel drive sucks up alot of gas..

Atleast now the exhaust is fixed, But still uninspected, Tried to have it inspected, FAILED.

Passed safety, Failed emissions.
Codes for:

Something with the the cat and Cylinder 3 misfire, Or something.

...I love my car.

Goes to show that you love what you grew up with.

Posted by big dave Goes to show that you love what you grew up with.

i've only had a couple of V8's.
My Capri, my F150 and my Bronco were all 302's of varying vintage.
my Pontiac Catalina, which i never really drove, was a 350.

Everything has been four cylinder or V6.

Samarui I beleive you said something along the lines of once:

"Its never going to be Baseball, Hotdogs, Apple Pie & TOYOTA!"

Posted by Agent Skelly Samarui I beleive you said something along the lines of once: "Its never going to be Baseball, Hotdogs, Apple Pie & TOYOTA!"

after last year... i might live to eat those words...

Posted by big dave Goes to show that you love what you grew up with.

I grew up with american cars. (well SUV's really) My Parents owned in order:

1970's Buick station Wagon (died in the early 80's)
1984 GMC Suburban
1988 GMC Suburban
1992 Ford Explorer (Rotted out)
1996 Jeep Cherokee (was stolen, and destroyed)
2000 Dodge Durango
2004 Dodge Durango
2008 Ford Escape

and i have had the "pleasure" of having:
1989 Jeep YJ (paid $5,000 for it, spent $10,000 in repairs, sold it for $5,000)
2000 Buick Rendezvous (broke down too many times to remember)
2000 Jeep TJ (i can't believe this thing is still running, i spent $30,000 on it, and have spent at least another $15,000 in repairs, not to mention the fact that it still needs another $5000 in repairs. and gets about 7mpg, i get about 180 miles before i have to fill up the 17 Gallon tank. (which is every other day)

And because i've had all of these american cars, is exactly the reason i need to get something different, and will be buying a Subaru Legacy GT.


Now i'm not saying i will never buy an american car again (i'd love to buy a Ford RS200) my next purchase will certainly not be an american car.

Posted by SoNaive 2000 Dodge Durango 2004 Dodge Durango

That'll scare anyone away from domestics for good... I FINALLY sold my Durango, and lost a LOT of money.

Good call on the Legacy GT. I like Subaru. They have a few little issues, but I've always been impressed with them. I'm actually going to look at a '98 Impreza 2.5 RS this week.

Posted by SoNaive I grew up with american cars. (well SUV's really) My Parents owned in order: 1970's Buick station Wagon (died in the early 80's) 1984 GMC Suburban 1988 GMC Suburban 1992 Ford Explorer (Rotted out) 1996 Jeep Cherokee (was stolen, and destroyed) 2000 Dodge Durango 2004 Dodge Durango 2008 Ford Escape and i have had the "pleasure" of having: 1989 Jeep YJ (paid $5,000 for it, spent $10,000 in repairs, sold it for $5,000) 2000 Buick Rendezvous (broke down too many times to remember) 2000 Jeep TJ (i can't believe this thing is still running, i spent $30,000 on it, and have spent at least another $15,000 in repairs, not to mention the fact that it still needs another $5000 in repairs. and gets about 7mpg, i get about 180 miles before i have to fill up the 17 Gallon tank. (which is every other day) And because i've had all of these american cars, is exactly the reason i need to get something different, and will be buying a Subaru Legacy GT. Now i'm not saying i will never buy an american car again (i'd love to buy a Ford RS200) my next purchase will certainly not be an american car.

i most certainly grew up with American cars.
From 1973 on (when i popped into the world):
1969 Ford Torino Talladega
1969 Chevy Camaro
1973 Chevy Caprice Spirit Of America
1972 Ford Gran Torino sportsroof
1973 Ford Maverick
1968 Ford Torino GT sportsroof
1969 Chevy Camaro Z28
1977 Ford LTD II coupe
1973 Ford F150
1979 Ford Thunderbird
and then the parents split...
1985 Ford Escort 5-door (mom)
1983 Ford Mustang GT (dad)
1978 Ford F150 (dad)
1984 Mercury Capri RS 5.0L (mom)
1984 Ford Mustang GT 20th Anniversary edition (dad)
1976 Ford Bronco 4x4 (dad)
1975 Pontiac LeMans coupe (mom)
1971 Ford Bronco halftop 4x4 (dad)
1989 Ford Mustang GT covertible (dad)
1984 Mercury Cougar (mom)
1983 Chevy Celebrity
1986 Ford Escort 3-door (mom)
1978 Ford Thunderbird (dad)
1996 Ford F150 4x2(dad)
1999 Chevy Cavalier Z22 coupe (mom)
2000 Chevy S10 xtended cab 2wd (mom)
2004 Chevy Silverado xtended cab 4x4 (mom)
2007 Pontiac G6 (mom)

Now, we all know that I have never owned an import. The closest I have come is a 1980 Dodge D50 pickup while I was a resident of Tennessee.
1972 Pontiac Catalina (was given, never drove, sold for $100)
1981 Chevy Citation X11 3door (was given, blew up engine, scrapped for parts)
1978 Mercury Bobcat (was given, never drove legally, used for parts and crushed)
1980 Ford Pinto (paid $300 for, put over $4,000 into it. Eventually traded)
1980 Mercury Zephyr (paid $300 for, beat the everlovin shit out of and sold for $225)
1979 Plymouth Horizon (paid $150 for, beat unmercifully and sold for $125)
1981 Buick Regal (traded Pinto for... traded in at end of summer)
1991 Chevy Cavalier RS coupe (paid $10g for it, and beat mercilessly to 201,000 miles)
1985 Merkur XR4Ti (paid $200 for, never drove)
1988 Chevy Cavalier RS coupe (paid $1700 for, let go back to the dealer to the assraping he/they gave me)
1984 Chevy Cavalier Type 10 coupe (paid $100 for, drove for 6 months, detonated engine)
1986 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z (paid $100, drove for a couple months, electronics continued to fail and parts availability)
1980 Dodge D50 (wasn't MY truck, but I drove)
1985 Chevy Celebrity sedan (was given, drove for a month... flywheel cracked and I misdiagnosed as a crank failure.)
1986 Dodge 600 coupe (paid $300 for, sold for $300)
1996 Chevy Cavalier (paid $4g's for it...)
1998 Chevy Cavalier (paid $3g's for it...)
1985 Chevy Cavalier Type 10 hatchback (paid $175 for it, drove it four days and scrapped it as too rotten to pass inspection)
1989 Dodge Shadow ES Turbo sedan (paid $100 for, it scrapped it after never driving it. too rotten)
2005 Chevy Cobalt coupe (paid $14k for it)
1993 Chevy Lumina sedan (paid $125 for it, sold it for $100)
2007 Chevy Cobalt SS/SC coupe (ugh... paid alot for it!)
1998 Chevy Lumina sedan (paid $0 for it, sold it for $500)
1999 Chevy Monte Carlo (paid $2500 for it)

The CR best and worse of '09 is out and I was flipping thru it, you're right. It's like asking that one import crazy friend most people seem to have what sedan to buy.

"OMG! OMG! Toyota Hyundai Kia Honda... drool, _{or I guess you could buy a Malibu, it would probably be ok I guess.}"

Consumer reports has turned into That guy.

Posted by CaptOrbit The CR best and worse of '09 is out and I was flipping thru it, you're right. It's like asking that one import crazy friend most people seem to have what sedan to buy. "OMG! OMG! Toyota Hyundai Kia Honda... drool, or I guess you could buy a Malibu, it would probably be ok I guess." Consumer reports has turned into That guy.

i have no faith in Consumer Reports after the write up they did on the 2007 Pontiac G6 sedan, the very same car my mother owns. Their test model was even the same color! The write up was way off and it was so biased, i couldn't believe that was even remotely objective.

I feel that idiots like Consumer Reports and the import-fapping tools at Car & Driver/Motor Trend/et al. have done more to kill the domestic auto industry than anything else.

Posted by bandi Good call on the Legacy GT. I like Subaru. They have a few little issues, but I've always been impressed with them. I'm actually going to look at a '98 Impreza 2.5 RS this week.

I actually know of a 96 Subaru Impreza wagon edition for sale, If your interested :p

These are your gods now.

click to view	click to view	click to view	click to view
click to view	click to view	click to view	click to view

So sayeth CR, Road and Track, Car and Driver, so on and so forth.


<sighs>

Posted by CaptOrbit These are your gods now. click to view click to view click to view click to view click to view click to view click to view click to view So sayeth CR, Road and Track, Car and Driver, so on and so forth. <sighs>

fucking never.
i'll start buying all the GM's I can now!

One thing I have to say is that it doesn't really matter what you buy now days, it's going to give you upwards of 100,000 miles of reliable service. There will be a few that don't, but the majority will.

I do have to say that when it comes to buying used cars, it's easier to find a used American car than a used import (of any sort, really). They tend to be less expensive and easier to find parts for, too.

I buy a car for its ergonomics, handling, and its fuel economy. I value reliability, but I've never had bad experiences with anything other than 2 Hondas that I drove into the ground because I didn't care and didn't maintain them (at all). Our 92 Camaro has issues, but I've not had to do anything major to it. The dizzy needed a rebuild a while back, but the rest has been cheap stuff. A coil here, plug wires there.

And really, an American V8 will run longer in poor condition than just about anything else.

Taku does bring up a good point; you DO see more domestics on the used market than foreign makes. And to go even further, I conjecture you do see more domestics on their 3rd owner through used sales than a foriegn car.

Personally myself, I demand that a car must be able to last 100,000 miles without any major issues.