For those who've followed this since I first created the thread, the other shoe has dropped. I received this message from her yesterday...

"From: Tink
To: Shawn
Date: Mar 25, 2009 2:56 PM
Subject: hi


i'm reluctant to say this for certain reasons:

shawn, i do NOT like you more than a friend. if i have EVER given you that impression, i apologize.

we won't be together at any point, i refrained from saying such because i don't like to step on toes."

So, that's that. At first, I couldn't figure out what had prompted the message, but now I think that it might have been my offer of assistance in response to a blog comment where she was talking about her place of work jerking her around on her hours and her paycheck. I would have said the same thing to any friend in need, because that's just who I am, a guy who helps his friends when they need it.

Anyway, I guess that it's time to move forward from here...

Moving on? It's not easy, but it's worth doing. Go for it.

Yup. Plenty of other fish in the sea.

Did I just say that? <shivers>

Posted by Mr. Fuzzy Yup. Plenty of other fish in the sea. Did I just say that? <shivers>

There may be many fish in the sea, but very few are palatable to me.

Posted by Shawn W. There may be many fish in the sea, but very few are palatable to me.

You would prob be surprised how many you click with if you gave more a chance. There is no "one."

Posted by Esoterik You would prob be surprised how many you click with if you gave more a chance. There is no "one."

Hahaha. Me giving them a chance isn't an issue. It's them giving ME a chance that seems to be the problem. I'm not a difficult guy to get to know, but I often come off the wrong way, so not too many want to make the effort, and of the few who do, very few of them stick around in my life for any measurable length of time. The ones who've stuck around are still friends, but not romantic prospects.

Posted by Shawn W. For those who've followed this since I first created the thread, the other shoe has dropped. I received this message from her yesterday... "From: Tink To: Shawn Date: Mar 25, 2009 2:56 PM Subject: hi i'm reluctant to say this for certain reasons: shawn, i do NOT like you more than a friend. if i have EVER given you that impression, i apologize. we won't be together at any point, i refrained from saying such because i don't like to step on toes."

Quick! Write a confused email, asking her what she is talking about! Apologize if you mistakenly lead her on! Works every time.

Posted by Shawn W. Hahaha. Me giving them a chance isn't an issue. It's them giving ME a chance that seems to be the problem. I'm not a difficult guy to get to know, but I often come off the wrong way, so not too many want to make the effort, and of the few who do, very few of them stick around in my life for any measurable length of time. The ones who've stuck around are still friends, but not romantic prospects.

I never have understood the ideology (insanity?) behind thinking "Oh, I'd better not be clear about how I feel because I think Shawn wants in my pants, that might hurt his feelings."

No offense to you and her, but still.

Posted by Skold Quick! Write a confused email, asking her what she is talking about! Apologize if you mistakenly lead her on! Works every time.

Clever, but that would just put the whole situation on life support.

Pull the plug...if she wants anything serious later she may come back. Sometimes it gets to the point where pursuing a relationship will only result in further pain down the line.

Posted by Mr. Fuzzy Clever, but that would just put the whole situation on life support. Pull the plug...if she wants anything serious later she may come back. Sometimes it gets to the point where pursuing a relationship will only result in further pain down the line.

Heh, honestly, after recent developments, on which I'm not going to elaborate, I'm now not sure that I'd want her as more than a friend. The mutual friend who I mentioned earlier in this thread and I are very confused, and would like to know just what the heck is going through her head. I'm still shaking my own head, and feeling rather amused about the whole thing.

Edit: I think that I should also mention that in addition to the threats of physical violence that her boyfriend made last weekend, he has now resorted to taking unprovoked jabs at me in the comments section of her blog. She and I were having discussion about how much the Buffalo area sucks in comparison to most other areas, and he wasn't mentioned at all in any of these comments. In my response to his comment, I told him that if he has something to say, that he should have the cojones to say it directly to me. I have yet to receive a response, and doubt that I will.

You shouldn't have to put up with any threats. If the threats are as unfounded as you say and she isn't willing to stand up on your behalf, she's not a friend worth keeping.

In the toughest of my times I have to remind myself the simple saying: friends before women. Women come and go, but friends are forever.

As also said in this thread, being anything more than friends with someone you've known for a long time is nearly impossible unless you're ready to stop talking to that person if/when things fall apart. You can't just "fall back" to friends after being intimate with someone. Does not compute. Sex and/or intimacy can change things so very much, unfortunately.

My last point is often debated, I suppose its different for some people. Intimacy and sex are very serious for me, I guess I'm old fashioned.

Posted by Stewie You shouldn't have to put up with any threats. If the threats are as unfounded as you say and she isn't willing to stand up on your behalf, she's not a friend worth keeping. In the toughest of my times I have to remind myself the simple saying: friends before women. Women come and go, but friends are forever. As also said in this thread, being anything more than friends with someone you've known for a long time is nearly impossible unless you're ready to stop talking to that person if/when things fall apart. You can't just "fall back" to friends after being intimate with someone. Does not compute. Sex and/or intimacy can change things so very much, unfortunately. My last point is often debated, I suppose its different for some people. Intimacy and sex are very serious for me, I guess I'm old fashioned.

Actually, she did stand up for me, as she stopped him from vocalizing said threats at first, which is why I didn't know until she told me. However, I really don't see him following through on the unspecified desires to cause me harm, and even if he did, he'd have to bring more than himself, as he's not exactly what one could call a "tough guy", unless running your mouth counts.

In regard to becoming intimate with a friend, and then falling back to friends, I wholeheartedly agree. With my last girlfriend, after we broke up, we were fairly cordial, but when she began dating her best friend (a woman), outside of one phone conversation to check up on her (she'd had an operation), and a couple of short texts, I didn't talk with her for over a year, as I knew that I couldn't deal with it. However, after writing a three page letter to her, vocalizing where my life has gone since the breakup, and describing where I felt that she was culpable and disrespectful to both me and us near the end of and after the relationship, I felt like a huge weight had been lifted from my shoulders. I never did end up sending the letter, but I did read it to her over the phone a couple of weeks ago. She ended up agreeing with me on multiple points, and complimented me on how eloquent the letter is. She and I are now on speaking terms again. I'm going to e-mail a copy of the letter to her, as per her request, so she can go over it more in depth.

Posted by Shawn W. Actually, she did stand up for me, as she stopped him from vocalizing said threats at first, which is why I didn't know until she told me. However, I really don't see him following through on the unspecified desires to cause me harm, and even if he did, he'd have to bring more than himself, as he's not exactly what one could call a "tough guy", unless running your mouth counts. In regard to becoming intimate with a friend, and then falling back to friends, I wholeheartedly agree. With my last girlfriend, after we broke up, we were fairly cordial, but when she began dating her best friend (a woman), outside of one phone conversation to check up on her (she'd had an operation), and a couple of short texts, I didn't talk with her for over a year, as I knew that I couldn't deal with it. However, after writing a three page letter to her, vocalizing where my life has gone since the breakup, and describing where I felt that she was culpable and disrespectful to both me and us near the end of and after the relationship, I felt like a huge weight had been lifted from my shoulders. I never did end up sending the letter, but I did read it to her over the phone a couple of weeks ago. She ended up agreeing with me on multiple points, and complimented me on how eloquent the letter is. She and I are now on speaking terms again. I'm going to e-mail a copy of the letter to her, as per her request, so she can go over it more in depth.

Can UER also see this email? Plz.

Posted by Skold Can UER also see this email? Plz.

Um, no.

I'm going to update this just for the heck of it.

So, last night, my friend texted me that she and her boyfriend were no longer seeing one another, a fact of which had yet to inform him at that point, because, "He is belligerent and lazy." When she did inform him, he did not take it well, but aside from some yelling, nothing bad happened.

Fast forward to today. Her relationship status as listed on MySpace is still "in a relationship", and her boyfriend is still #3 on her friends list (political groups are at 1 and 2), posting comments on her page, and living with her. Partway through a call from her on an unrelated matter, I asked her if she'd had a change of heart, to which she responded with some form of, "Not exactly," then said that it was complicated, and continued with, "It's a long story." She declined to elaborate on the matter, I think as much because she didn't really know what to say as she didn't really want to get into it. I'm sure I'll hear more about the subject from her soon enough.

She confuses the bejesus out me, seriously. And so it goes...

Cut yourself off. This will not go anywhere but heart break for you. Trust me.

Thanks for the update Shawn, I was wondering what was going on with this.

Sounds like she intended to break up with him, but was possibly sweet talked into something different. Now she is unsure of herself and the relationship.

Make some space Shawn. Even if she dumps him, I think she was clear about her feelings for you.

Find someone who is going to seriously rock your world; I assure you she's out there somewhere. If you stop focusing on your friend, you may even find her!

You deserve it

Posted by Debi Thanks for the update Shawn, I was wondering what was going on with this. Sounds like she intended to break up with him, but was possibly sweet talked into something different. Now she is unsure of herself and the relationship. Make some space Shawn. Even if she dumps him, I think she was clear about her feelings for you. Find someone who is going to seriously rock your world; I assure you she's out there somewhere. If you stop focusing on your friend, you may even find her! You deserve it

Thanks, but I'm not focusing on her in a relationship context, nor have I been since she made it clear to me that wasn't interested in more than a friendship.

Like I said last night, I figured that she'd get back to me about this soon enough, and she did less than an hour ago via text, so now I know what the issue is. She's asked him to leave, twice, but he's refusing to do so. She asked me how she could get him out without involving the police, and I told her that the only way that I could see that happening is if she had friends or family there to back her up. I then told her that I'd come over if she wanted me to, but that would probably exacerbate the situation, due to the fact that he already dislikes me, so I suggested that she instead get her father involved, as the man strikes me as someone who can cause some hurt if necessary, especially if it's to help out his kids.

I'm hoping that everything is going to turn out okay, and that her boyfriend will get the message and split without a physical confrontation, be it with her father, the cops, or anyone else. She's keeping in contact, so we'll see what happens.

Okay, nothing went the way that it should have. First, she decided not only to not involve the cops, but not involve her family, either. A friend was supposed to take the former boyfriend to the city mission, so that he wouldn't just be kicked onto the street, but then that was changed to his grandmother's house. Him moving out of her place was supposed to be "permanent".

As for 2:33pm yesterday, his removal from the premises was still scheduled for that day. However, when I arrived at a little after 5:30pm to help her run some errands, I stepped into what one can describe as a combination of Bizarro World and the Twilight Zone. I ended up taking both she and the supposedly former boyfriend on said errands. When we got back to her place, she invited me up, which I assumed meant that my physical presence was required to help get him off of the premises when the other friend showed up. Nope. The other friend never came, and what followed was about eight hours (!!!) of conversation and tv watching between all of us, with them acting like none of her texts or phone calls filled with flustered statements about how she'd broken up with him and how he absolutely had to go had ever happened. I also spent much time texting a mutual friend, asking for her help in wrapping my head around this, and half-jokingly suggested that she come rescue me from the insanity.

I was throughly upset about all of this and let my friend know this afternoon via text, as I'd spent much time over the previous few days, along with a lot of emotion and a little money, helping her to deal with a situation that ultimately amounted to absolutely nothing except me feeling drained, confused, and frustrated. I told her that I adore her as a friend, but that she's toxic to my state of mind, a statement which greatly upset her, as she shot back with a few statements of her own, one of them being, "Just remember karma is tricky. Usually what you say about someone else you can say about yourself."

With that said, I really do value our friendship and care about her, but I'm stepping away from the situation, not only for my own health, but for that of others, as well, because nothing good would come of me continuing along the same path. I just hope that she can get her head on straight and make up her mind, so that we can continue the friendship at some point.

seriously... Get away.

Things are only as complicated as you perceive them to be.

You have allowed yourself to get sucked WAY too far into this mess. Get the hell out... for the sake of your own sanity... GET OUT, GET AWAY!!!