http://www.chevrol...ult/future/volt.do

and by that I mean it's claimed practicality and mileage.

Posted by CaptOrbit http://www.chevrol...ult/future/volt.do and by that I mean it's claimed practicality and mileage.

GM has put a ton of money into this car... it better do everything they promise it will or this will be pretty much the end for them.

I only ask because if it can do what it claims, and can be made affordable, it could very well be the most important car since...


This,

The Volt confirmed what I thought GM was up to when they canceled the EV1.

GM put way too much effort into the EV1 with R&D costs and road testing programs to just throw in the towel.

Plus, the odd fact the car was road tested in public for close to 10 years which is much longer than any other GM program that I know of. I knew they had an endgame for the EV1; I just didn't know where they would go next with it.

Yay on the electric car. Maybe the oil companies scared them in the night or something, but it seems kind of ironic how after killing their first born, they now are all about the Voltswagon. (I wish VW would grab that name already


http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0489037/

the inconvenient truth about electric cars... lol
how about the inconvenient truth about these fucking hybrids?
you know what's going to happen to all these asshole-mobiles when they go off warranty and something fails in the hybrid part of their drivetrain? They're going to the salvage because not one of these self-proclaimed environweenies is going to afford to fix their precious Prius, or their dorky Camry or their Insight, or the Escape or their Fusion... Get it?

I think I mentioned this earlier in another thread, but Sport Compact Car did a full out test of a straight gasoline Camry versus a Camry hybrid. Same loop. Same time of day. Same traffic conditions. The funny part? The gasoline powered car was better than the Camry in mileage. Why? Oh gasp how can that be??? The loose nut behind the wheel is the best fuel management device hooked to the car.
What do I mean?

LEARN TO FUCKING DRIVE.
you'll get better mileage.

personally, electric cars are only a stop gap to zero emissions... hydrogen is where my money is at. Either a fuel cell or pressurized gas in a tank.

Look I'm not giong all ga-ga over the hybrid, I drive a full size V-8 and I just bought it recently, I was more marveling at what could be a very important step toward an entirely different kind of car than we've been used to.

Post by Samurai They're going to the salvage because not one of these self-proclaimed environweenies is going to afford to fix their precious Prius, or their dorky Camry or their Insight, or the Escape or their Fusion... Get it?

Well remember one of the things I said in my first post was can it be made practical, and by that I really meant affordable, (I probably should have said that) and able to compete reasonably in maintenance cost with non-the future is now cars. 230mpg is nothing to sniff at, but it won't make a lick of difference if the only people who can afford the damn thing are the ones who could easily afford gas at any price in the first place.

Posted by Samurai the inconvenient truth about electric cars... lol how about the inconvenient truth about these fucking hybrids? you know what's going to happen to all these asshole-mobiles when they go off warranty and something fails in the hybrid part of their drivetrain? They're going to the salvage because not one of these self-proclaimed environweenies is going to afford to fix their precious Prius, or their dorky Camry or their Insight, or the Escape or their Fusion... Get it? I think I mentioned this earlier in another thread, but Sport Compact Car did a full out test of a straight gasoline Camry versus a Camry hybrid. Same loop. Same time of day. Same traffic conditions. The funny part? The gasoline powered car was better than the Camry in mileage. Why? Oh gasp how can that be??? The loose nut behind the wheel is the best fuel management device hooked to the car. What do I mean? LEARN TO FUCKING DRIVE. you'll get better mileage. personally, electric cars are only a stop gap to zero emissions... hydrogen is where my money is at. Either a fuel cell or pressurized gas in a tank.

I always hated Hybrids from an engineering standpoint because of the fact the electric motor and the gas engine are mechanically linked. While that is the point, I think its where you loose any efficiency. I always thought a hybrid should be built like a locomotive; the engine needs to power a generator that powers directly to an electric motor. You get way more efficiency as the engine is running at a constant speed. The Volt actually works like this except there's a battery in between (and even now some locomotives have this).

BTW, people think that Toyota came up with the Hybrid First....WRONG. Its Honda.

from an efficiency standpoint, electric motors are massively torquey. Someone told me they go from ground state to max torque at start up which would make an electric car that much quicker... but the speed, range and charge time are what kill the deal. Here's the thing with a hybrid... you've got a gasoline engine on board and a shitload of batteries... the engine is charging the batteries so the electric motor can take over at low load periods of cruising? Well, right there you are losing efficiency due to the added weight of the electric motor, management and battery compartment. Instead, why not just have a small-displacement turbo diesel engine? Saving weight, maximum efficiency, the emissions problem has been solved... from an efficiency standpoint, diesel would be a greater idea than a hybrid.

I don't know, but as a guy who used to twist wrenches, hybrids seem more like hype and advertising BS than anything worth having. Ever notice the types of people that drive these things?

What Sam said, plus electric motors are tough to maintain... it's usually toss-and-replace.

Posted by velcrozeppelin What Sam said, plus electric motors are tough to maintain... it's usually toss-and-replace.

from an industrial standpoint, every pump where I work (and there are over 200) is powered by an electric motor and when one fails, we toss it out, send it out for a rebuild. And it's not cheap to rebuild one of these things... and this is just a standard old run-of-the-mill electric motor. Now imagine something out of a Prius or Insight???

I'll be sticking with efficient diesels, personally.

Posted by velcrozeppelin What Sam said, plus electric motors are tough to maintain... it's usually toss-and-replace.

So, where do the buggered up motors go? Do they get rebuilt, recycled or do they take up space in landfill? If it's the last option, then that is not very environmentally friendly.

Also, I feel badly for the emergency crews who would have to deal with these vehicles when they get involved in a crash.

There is no easy answer. I don't think for a second electric cars will save the world in the next ten+ years, or are for everyone. A simple non hybrid design could be great for deliveries and taxis in cities, especially for cutting air pollution in places like Mexico City. As they improve, good for short commutes, groceries etc. They should be able to do that from Day one, or not worth putting in to production. Electric motors used to almost always get rebuilt, the batteries is another issue, could be real problems there. Agreed on keeping the gas and electric motors separate. If one breaks, well, just flip a switch.

Am not a fan of hybrids, but the Taxi companies here are all over the Prius. great in town mileage.

An economical clean Turbo Diesel is brilliant, but I don't like how diesel has cost more than gas for years now. Advantage: They can be adapted to run on waste oil from restaurants, bio diesel etc.

I wanted a minivan, but thought the Tahoe would be a good trade off. Lots of space but not quite as much in the back, or as good economy; but cheap parts, and real 4wd. It's proving to be a good choice, after almost a year. I drive less, 25.00 per week in gas, and get on the mountain bike more or walk.

If I had to drive a lot, and wanted a cheap car, would go for a mid to late 80's VW Golf diesel or Turbo Diesel.

http://www.edmunds...s/articleId=141626

http://www.serious...vw-1-liter-car.htm

I've seen the guide that Toyota gives out to fire departments for the Prius; its not too bad; you disconnect the regular 12V battery like you normally do, and then you basically pull all the relay modules and your safe. One thing that Toyota got right ha.

Now as for electric motors you guys are a bit off your mark. The motors that are in Samurai's paper mill are industrial-class motors; they are built to last X amount of cycles before failure. Pump motors tend to also designed to not be able to be rebuilt as well.

What is in the Prius, Insight, Volt, the EV1, and even locomotives are electric traction motors. These are specifically designed for the purposes of well moving vehicles. They are highly resilient and just in case, very easy to rebuild if desired. I've never heard of the electric traction motor fail on a locomotive. A matter of fact during the entire EV1 program, the traction motor never failed.

Posted by Agent Skelly I've seen the guide that Toyota gives out to fire departments for the Prius; its not too bad; you disconnect the regular 12V battery like you normally do, and then you basically pull all the relay modules and your safe. One thing that Toyota got right ha.

have you ever responded to an auto accident in a fire fighting/rescue or recovery capacity?

Posted by A. Lien An economical clean Turbo Diesel is brilliant, but I don't like how diesel has cost more than gas for years now. Advantage: They can be adapted to run on waste oil from restaurants, bio diesel etc. If I had to drive a lot, and wanted a cheap car, would go for a mid to late 80's VW Golf diesel or Turbo Diesel.

At 62 mpg in my Bug, I don't care what diesels cost. Actually, it's still cheaper than gas in Ontario.

As for the mid to late 80's Golf... GREAT engine, but those cars are all so tired out electrically, they aren't worth owning. That's why there are so many MKII VW's in the scrap yards that still look great. They just aren't a reliable car. I've had more than a few MKII Vws and they were absolute nightmares.

Good to know, thanks, I should move up. However is it not true that the VW Golf, and Jetta from about 91 to 01 was sub par in reliability? A long time VW fan, wish it wasn't true, but the data speaks badly for many of those years. (As good as some of the engines are, if the electrical and stuff is weak, not good)

My sister bought an 04? Golf, one year old from the dealer. Nothing but trouble. The best part was, they brought a special warranty rep out from Ontario because she kept on them, and it was so bad. Even better, the replaced clutch (manual trans) went out while the dude was driving it. They fixed it up and she sold it. Then over compensated and bought two Honda CRV's!

Post by A. Lien Good to know, thanks, I should move up. However is it not true that the VW Golf, and Jetta from about 91 to 01 was sub par in reliability? A long time VW fan, wish it wasn't true, but the data speaks badly for many of those years. (As good as some of the engines are, if the electrical and stuff is weak, not good)

http://www.dieselchevette.com/









I didn't even know an automatic was an option.

Posted by CaptOrbit http://www.dieselchevette.com/ I didn't even know an automatic was an option.

There was also a prototype for the Electrovette.