Looking to get a new pistol, in a somewhat smaller caliber, mostly for range training, but that can still knock someone down with less than half a mag(9mm is out of the question anyways).

I have been tossing around the idea of maybe dropping to a .40S&W or a 10mm for doing my range training with, since currently I only shoot .45acp out one of two pistols, a Para-Ordnance PX14-45SF 1911, or a Springfield XD.

Shooting the XD tends to get a little tiring after a few hundred rounds, even though its much lighter than the 1911 and tends to kick less as well.
Not only that, have y'all noticed the price of .45 ball these days? and no way in hell am I wasting my precious JHP +P, which costs nearly twice as much.

That being said, as I mentioned before, I've been thinking about the fairly new 10mm, which I know the FBI adopted a few years back, or the .40S&W. I also mentioned 9mm being out of the question. I do hate the ineffectual little round. After having nothing but troubles with it, in the Beretta 92f/M9 platform, and seeing how little it does to drop even a scrawny, wiry Iraqi, I don't have much love or faith in it.

Feel free to mention any pistol/caliber combinations that have worked well for you guys, that will go easy on a poor enlisted soldiers wallet, and don't forget to mention its merits on the two way firing range either ;)

Damn. If you are on a moderate budget, then i wont recommend a Sig Sauer 226 or 229 in .40

10mm Kicks harder then .45ACP imho. so if your after lower recoil, I would stay away from it.

I dont know if its still in current production but the S and W model 52 in 38 special was a nice, low recoil semiauto. Not a great gun for serious use, but good for the range.

I checked, not in production anymore, it was gun we sized from an arms cache. I really like the thing. Have considered some of the other .38 cal semi's like .38 super?

I believe the FBI went with the 10mm initially after the Florida shootout debacle but had too many complaints about recoil so S&W to the rescue with the .40


personally I love my .45ACPs (for close quarters) but Ive seen what a 1911 with good sights and +P .38 Super loads can do, its just this side of a .357MAG in velocity and range in other words you can hold a tad high for a 50yd shot try that with your .45

recoil does not bother me in the least most of the skin between my thumb and forefinger has been sheared away by my Commander over the last 20yrs anyway and I got radial ulnar nerve damage from shooting my model 29s and 629 for years!

9mm loads can have stopping power but not with a 115FMJ in fact Im looking for a Colt Mustang in .380 right now +P HPs makes a great little hide out gun

all depends what ya need it for least comfortable gun I have right now is a 2.5" model 19 put some Rem 158 factory loads in that snubby and be prepared for the sting it actually hurts to shoot it with the service grips but I still use it for carry gun because if you need to use it in a hurry you wont notice the recoil anyway

I'm fine with recoil to, but I think he wanted a lower recoil firearm for the range, not for carry. As even for me, firing a few 100 10mm's at the range can get tiring.

Posted by 2Xplorations I believe the FBI went with the 10mm initially after the Florida shootout debacle but had too many complaints about recoil so S&W to the rescue with the .40

What a coincidence. I read this article just last night on the Bren Ten website.

"The Rise & Fall Of The 10mm" author Dick Metcalf
November 1995 - Shooting Times

The Fall The moment the 10mm Auto actually began its decline from popularity and prominence can be clearly marked. It was the exact instant in 1988 that the FBI's Firearms Training Unit (FTU) experts at Quantico, Virginia, determined that the 10mm was the best-performing law-enforcement cartridge of all autoloader rounds then available on the market; far better, in fact, than either the popular 9mm Luger or the traditional .45 ACP. This is not a paradox and is easy to understand in retrospect. The FBI had begun a systematic analysis of law-enforcement handgun ammunition effectiveness in the aftermath of a Miami shootout in 1986 which left two agents dead. The full-power commercial 10mm Auto cartridge won the FTU's review hands down. But the test crew also concluded that its recoil was excessive in terms of training for average agent/police officer competency of use and qualification. So one of the FTU experts went to a local gunshop, bought a box of Sierra 180-grain JHP 10mm bullets (the only type that happened to be on that dealer's shelf), and worked up a set of reduced-power 10mm handloads that would still edge out the previous second-place cartridge in the FTU's review (the commercial Remington 185-grain JHP+P) when run through the same series of performance/penetration tests, but was moderate in recoil and "trainable" by FBI standards. The FBI then commissioned Federal Cartridge Corp. to manufacture a 10mm load to these specifications (the Sierra bullet at about 950 fps velocity), reviewed it thoroughly, and then publicized it throughout the national law-enforcement community as the FBI's top choice for law-enforcement use. Other major ammunition manufacturers almost immediately began producing equivalent-performance "10mm FBI" (or 10mm Lite) loads of their own to compete for the forthcoming ammunition contracts, and the entire industry focus on the 10mm Auto cartridge shifted from its high-power, magnum-level capabilities to its reduced-power, law-enforcement applications. And then came the axe. World-class competitive shooter Tom Campbell, who then worked in the model shop at Smith & Wesson, pointed out to S&W President Steve Melvin that if a .40/10mm-caliber cartridge with a shorter case could be loaded to the exact same performance level as the 10mm FBI, it would work inside smaller pistol formats originally designed for the 9mm Luger cartridge instead of the full-size .45-size guns required by the full-size 10mm Auto load. Melvin asked the head of Winchester/Olin, Jerry Bersett, if his company could build such a load. The answer was "Yes," and in January 1990, Winchester and S&W jointly introduced the new .40 S&W cartridge for the 9mm-sized S&W Model 4006. The .40 S&W is nothing but a 10mm Short powered to the FBI's performance specifications. From that announcement forward, the 10mm Auto cartridge was on a straight and rapid downhill slope. Since the appearance of the .40 S&W, no major handgun maker has brought forth any new 10mm pistols. Those who were considering making a 10mm canceled their plans. Many of the 10mm pistols and any other handguns already on the market gradually disappeared. But everybody, that means everybody, has jumped on the .40 S&W bandwagon with new guns, new loads, and components of every type. After 1990, the .40 S&W usurped the whole .40/10mm-caliber field entirely and left the 10mm Auto in the dust.

glock still offers a 10mm semi auto. Its my preferred to .40 short and weak.

Just find a pistol in a lower power cartridge that fits you well for the range. Everyone is unique and We cant really tell you which pistol is ideal for you.

Posted by rz350 Its my perfected to .40 short and weak.

What? I don't quite get this statement.

spell check... I selected the wrong word, I meant preferred to .40 short and weak.

The M882 9mm we have in the military is 124 grain FMJ. It sucks.
That's a far cry from the 147gr +P+ jhp ammo I run through my G19.
I have watched M882 rounds pass through human targets causing minimal damage.
CorBon hollowpoints will kill you.
We could debate round size all day - the key to killing is, as always, shot placement.

The Glock 17/19 platform is the best DAO striker-fired 9mm yet built and the most reliable handgun yet designed.
M92 Berettas are indeed inferior weapons - but with new springs and properly loaded ammo, they function MUCH better all around!! M882 is under-powered ammo mated to an inferior bullet.

I don't know where the 10mm comment came in, but rank and File FBI 1811s carry Glock 22s or 23s - most carry 23s.
That's a Glock chambered for 40S&W.
The 40S&W is a good round all around.
If hate 9mm and you won't have the Glock 17 or 19, why not get the 22 or 23?
Or, if you're wedded to the SA - get one of those in 40SW.

Posted by WuffyFluff I've been thinking about the fairly new 10mm, which I know the FBI adopted a few years back, or the .40S&W. I also mentioned 9mm being out of the question. I do hate the ineffectual little round. After having nothing but troubles with it, in the Beretta 92f/M9 platform, and seeing how little it does to drop even a scrawny, wiry Iraqi, I don't have much love or faith in it.

Posted by DevilC The M882 9mm we have in the military is 124 grain FMJ. It sucks. That's a far cry from the 147gr +P+ jhp ammo I run through my G19. I have watched M882 rounds pass through human targets causing minimal damage.

Believe it or not, that's actually kind of the point. Due to, if I recall correctly, some international convention, hollow point bullets are banned in warfare, because of how much damage they cause to human targets. If you'd like, I'll dig up the reference. Besides, in warfare, more emphasis is placed on armor penetration, so hollow points would be ineffective for that purpose, anyway.

Yes, you're speaking of den Hague Convention of 1899.
Specifically, declaration III, prohibits ". . . the use in warfare of bullets that easily expand or flatten in the body." Legal geniuses often mistakenly quote hollowpoints to be prohibited by one the Geneva Conventions, but 1899 is a generation prior to any of the Geneva accords. No NATO members issue small arms ammo that den Hague Conventions prohibit.

My point was that 9mm IS a man-killing round. Hornady TAP, CorBon, or Winchester Ranger, all have VERY capable and VERY lethal 147gr +p+ loads.

Posted by Shawn W. Believe it or not, that's actually kind of the point. Due to, if I recall correctly, some international convention, hollow point bullets are banned in warfare, because of how much damage they cause to human targets. If you'd like, I'll dig up the reference. Besides, in warfare, more emphasis is placed on armor penetration, so hollow points would be ineffective for that purpose, anyway.

Well, thanks to all for the input during my absence. I guess I was a little dated suggesting the 10mm as being "fairly new" hehe... oops..

I am looking for something with a bit less recoil than the .45 for range use, but the price of ammo is also a major consideration. Gun budget doesn't matter as much to me since its a one time price, but its the price and availability of the ammo for it that counts... can't go to the range and shoot 500 rounds every weekends if its gonna be costing me 50 bucks for a box of 50 shells, know what I mean?

As suggested I'm gonna look more into the .40, either in an SA or SIG pistol, since yes, I love my XD, and I have a healthy respect for the SIG series.
Thanks again folks.

Wuffy
- still trying to keep the sand out of his fur...

.40SW and 9mm are both once again available and cheap.

You cannot go wrong with the SA-XD or Glock series.

If you get a Sig - look for a factory recertified used weapon - you can save as much as 50% - and it has the same warranty as a new Sig.

That sounds awesome, thanks for the advice, DevilC, I'll look into the factory re-certified Sigs.

The Glock 22 is a nice .40 cal. It took me a moment to get used to it, but now I love it, and maybe you will, too.