exactly... my first 'real' car was a 1980 Ford Pinto. No cupholders. No ABS. No traction control, no power brakes... just a carburated 2.3L OHC engine and an automatic transmission... you learn driving technique or you wreck the car.

i remember a study was done a couple of years ago about ABS... the cars don't stop as short as non-ABS cars and most people don't realize that ABS isn't to stop you shorter, but to allow you to maintain directional control in a low traction environment.

Posted by Samurai exactly... my first 'real' car was a 1980 Ford Pinto. No cupholders. No ABS. No traction control, no power brakes... just a carburated 2.3L OHC engine and an automatic transmission... you learn driving technique or you wreck the car. i remember a study was done a couple of years ago about ABS... the cars don't stop as short as non-ABS cars and most people don't realize that ABS isn't to stop you shorter, but to allow you to maintain directional control in a low traction environment.

The 1995 Dodge Caravan I had in NY had no ABS and regulary drove up to Pittsfield, MA via US-20 in blizzards.


And I knew that about directional control; I remember there was a GM ad for some Buick with ABS that they mentioned that.

Though the e-brake on my current car, If I need something other without ABS, I will use that.

I've owned car with and without ABS, and it really seems to depend on the vehicle. It's got a wicked fast pulse rate in my VW, but my Durango was nothing short of pathetic. (It was pathetic in many ways)

I've never actually had a car with traction control, but I've driven thousands of them with it, and absolutely hate it. It's a babysitting option for people who don't know how to drive, and I find it really just ruins a vehicle. I got stuck pulling out of a steep parking lot in an '08 Impala last winter, and could not drive out with the traction control on. Turned it off, feathered the gas a bit, and I was out.

My first car didn't have ABS and thats why I appreciate ABS. If you don't like it thats fine but it works better imo based on my experience with it. I never had the issue where I push the brakes, they lock and then the car seems to speed up in an ice storm with abs like i had with all my non abs cars!

Posted by cereal83I never had the issue where I push the brakes, they lock and then the car seems to speed up in an ice storm with abs like i had with all my non abs cars!

that's because youre supposed to stop pushing the pedal before the wheels lock up.

Posted by steponmebbbboom that's because youre supposed to stop pushing the pedal before the wheels lock up.

driving on ice is a touchy proposition with or without ABS... it's a crap shoot because once a car goes, man it goes hard and fast and nine times out of ten, recovery is nothing short of a miracle.

dude, i live in hamilton (toronto) ive already driven on glare ice three times this season...

Posted by Samurai driving on ice is a touchy proposition with or without ABS... it's a crap shoot because once a car goes, man it goes hard and fast and nine times out of ten, recovery is nothing short of a miracle.

If you want to drive on ice, you need MaxxTraxxs

Posted by Nismo winter tires are a last resort IMO

Not to mention learning how to drive in the winter. (IMHO)

Posted by Samurai exactly... my first 'real' car was a 1980 Ford Pinto. No cupholders. No ABS. No traction control, no power brakes... just a carburated 2.3L OHC engine and an automatic transmission... you learn driving technique or you wreck the car. i remember a study was done a couple of years ago about ABS... the cars don't stop as short as non-ABS cars and most people don't realize that ABS isn't to stop you shorter, but to allow you to maintain directional control in a low traction environment.

My first car was a 1976 Nova. Light ass end and rear wheel drive. I learned pretty quickly how to get out of spins and more importantly how to avoid getting into them in the first place.

Great little car. I learned a lot of important driving skills with it.

You want to learn about....Traction, adhesion, momentum, gravity, frostbite, and how hard it is to run backwards at 25MPH. Ride a motorcycle in the snow.

Then try finishing the last 5 miles of that ride with a broken left arm. on an unplowed road.

I learned me lots on that one...

i likey two wheels + snow/ice

Posted by bandi I've owned car with and without ABS, and it really seems to depend on the vehicle. It's got a wicked fast pulse rate in my VW, but my Durango was nothing short of pathetic. (It was pathetic in many ways) I've never actually had a car with traction control, but I've driven thousands of them with it, and absolutely hate it. It's a babysitting option for people who don't know how to drive, and I find it really just ruins a vehicle. I got stuck pulling out of a steep parking lot in an '08 Impala last winter, and could not drive out with the traction control on. Turned it off, feathered the gas a bit, and I was out.

my cavalier and sunfire both have it, at least the sunfire has a switch to turn off traction control, the cavalier you have to notch the e brake or put it in second

Posted by jeepdave Sam keep in mind that many times we are talking to a generation of drivers who have never driven without cup holders, much less ABS. Everyone should be issued a 83 Olds Cutless 4 door with a anemic 305 and 1/2 tread tires. Make em run it for a year in the winter in the north. Then they may have some basic driving skills.

best post ever!
my 93 ranger had abs in back. its t/c was a worn out 2.3 sohc pos motor.

my new 08 has abs on all 4 paws and it did take some getting use to. but i like it now.

cdevon1200

Posted by Samurai i likey two wheels + snow/ice

Yeah it was a ball all the way till the runnin' backwards/broken arm thing.
Not such a big fan of two and snow now, Three wheelers, Quads, those are more snow capable with me on board....

Posted by cdevon1200 best post ever! my 93 ranger had abs in back. its t/c was a worn out 2.3 sohc pos motor. my new 08 has abs on all 4 paws and it did take some getting use to. but i like it now. cdevon1200

i triple agree, i learned to winter drive in my dads aerostar with bald tires. there is NO weight in an aerostar!

Posted by bandi '98-'06 (ish) GM full size trucks have an issue where rust scale builds up under the front wheel speed sensors, and creates a larger air gap... you'll try to come to a stop at low speeds (ie, pulling into a parking space), the pedal goes to the FLOOR, the ABS pump goes crazy, and you DON'T stop. It's pretty exciting. The first time I had a truck do it to me was my first day at the GM dealership... just about put the fucking thing through a wall. Parking sprag worked very well in that truck

Oh good.

The next body style AFTER your truck, Jay... you're safe!

Oh, good!!!