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(and i say that only half-jokingly, in all seriousness What do you say to someone who laments being a social outcast when they present a medical condition that explains everything about them that makes them an outcast? "gee, sorry, can't help you, good luck...")

well i'll see where i can take this. A.S. is a mental illness (PDD or pervasive developmental disorder to be technical) and just like any other mental illness or personality disorder, Aspies are people who to one degree or another can't solve their own problems---who are a Pain In The Ass to put it bluntly... and what makes A.S. particularly insidious is that it affects you in ways that the majority of people think you should just "know better". Aspies range in functionality from "Rain Man" interpersonal skills to people whom you would never suspect as having something wrong with them, but have "something about them" that you just can't put your finger on, but really don't like. And you can never relax! You always have to control it. Anyone else can get drunk or stoned off their shit and fall down stairs, grab people's asses, barf in the flowerbed or pass out in the tub and it's hilarious. Give an aspie ONE beer and they'll drop their guard and let one sentence slip and turn the whole room silent with horror. No wonder most of them don't drink socially! "Cmon, have a beer, relax." MMMNope, nothanks...

I dont remember the exact occurrence but it's close to 1 in 400 for men, and women are four times less likely to have it than men. (as mothers, women have generally sharper social skills to begin with...) of course, there's a lot more of them online where social cues facial expressions tonality etc. don't hinder interaction. if you spend a lot of time interacting with friends online then you know one or have met one, Guarantee it.

If youve got Aspergers youve truly got a hard row to hoe. You are a certified Pain In The Ass and society is nowhere near the awareness level where they connect that to an Autism spectrum disorder rather than a character flaw. So You are going to be discriminated against. By EVERYONE. You will be bullied in school, you will go through friends like socks, you will be treated like shit at work, at the help desk, by the cops, on the phone, every interaction with other human beings will be much harder for you to control and keep out of the red zone. And try to hold down a Job? Good LUCK... And That will never change. Its something you will have to learn to live with. Because People are always going to think that you are the author of your own misfortune because Youve got a big mouth or You dont look people in the eye or You give people the creeps, Theyll never understand.

Ive got a really good friend who has moderate A.S. And he's gay! Imagine how hard that is. He's lucky in a sense because the gay community is very close-knit and supportive of each other---it's not hard to imagine the kinship that exists among people who understand that deep-rooted longing to Fit In because they know such a large part of their identity, does Not. and i see that in my interactions with him and his friends, and the other gay friends I have. It's beautiful. If youre Straight youre not going to find that kind of support and understanding so easily because A.S. is for the most part, invisible. Who here even knows what that is?

Thats why i pointed you to a support group Shawn, and i strongly suggest you follow that out because it's your best chance of finding strong friendship with people who know what you are going through and unlike everyone else, actually CARES. The biggest thing you need to understand if youre mentally ill or have a personality disorder is that you don't have the right to expect EVERYONE to accommodate you. The World is not going to change for the good of you. And not everyone is going to WANT to forgive your social blunders even if they know WHY youre doing it. Even your best friends and family members are going to get sick and tired, and lose their shit on you once in awhile because they Just Cant Take It. Thats normal. You cant expect more from them. You can only be grateful to those who choose to GIVE you more. and accept that as a GIFT.

because that's exactly what it is.

^^^

Really well said.

Posted by Shawn W. Mandias, I'm going to defer to steponmebbbboom's post to explain this. I do, indeed, have Asperger's Syndrome, and was first diagnosed with it before the DSM-IV was released. I'm not willfully ignorant or disrespectful of the needs of others. Due to Asperger's, I don't intuitively pick up on non-obvious signals from others, be it body language, which includes facial expression, verbal cues, or in writing. It's a learned behavior for me, one which I'm sure that I'll never get quite right, but have greatly improved upon since I was 20. Due to this, I think that my observation skills are better in some ways than a non-autistic person, because I'm often forced to look deeper to achieve a level of comprehension that's usable to me. With that said, I told my attorney friend about the Asperger's, and also explained how it affected me, and my interactions with others. If my Aspie traits were indeed responsible for the hostile send-off, then she's obviously not equipped or willing to accommodate behavior too far outside of the norm, including mine.

I feel ya brother. I have certainly trended in that direction in lots of ways. It's why, by 10 years old, I knew that my college major would be psychology, with some dabbling in sociology.

It's good that you are aware of it, and have some understanding of how people view it. I assume that you have come to accept that some people will just not be able to put up with it, except in tiny doses.

One other thing that I wanted to say was that it didn't seem to me that her brush off was terribly hostile. What happened was that she saw that other people were noticing your behavior, and the easiest thing to do at that point was just to quietly close up shop. It probably wasn't her intention to be hurtful with her comment, she was just trying to relate to the "normies" who were being made uncomfortable by your lack of social understanding. It's surprising how much discomfort people can experience when one person isn't following all of the secret, agreed upon rules.

Step, I appreciate the sympathetic ear, but I'd like to clear up a few things.

Asperger's, and Autism as a whole, isn't really a mental illness. It's more of a developmental disorder, which is a little different. I like to think of Asperger's as the brain being wired to see and react to things a little differently than a neurotypical, aka "normal", brain. There's no medication in existence that can make an Aspie behave within the societal norm, though some can treat related issues, like social anxiety. Personally, I refuse to take any kind of meds that will alter my state of mind. Oh, and Dustin Hoffman's character had an example of classic autism, not Asperger's.

I stopped drinking entirely nearly 8 years ago, but it had nothing to do with my AS. I've heard from some Aspies that social drinking helps them to loosen up and socialize better with others, but that hasn't inspired me to start again.

I beg to differ on females being better off in terms of social skills. I had an Aspie friend who's an intelligent and attractive young woman, but she refuses to acknowledge the affect that her behavior has on others, including expecting people to accommodate her, while generally not accommodating them. That was a big sticking point. The way that she gets by is by being a big flirt, both with men and women. It's going to come back to bite her when someone gets the wrong idea.

With those things said, yeah, I was bullied in school, mostly verbally, and I often get scrutinized more closely at the US/Canada border and in airport security lines. Random checks? Yeah, right. Employment? That's another story entirely. I would like to say, however, that it's not an issue for all Aspies. I'll address other stuff in my response to Mandias' comment.

Posted by MutantMandias I feel ya brother. I have certainly trended in that direction in lots of ways. It's why, by 10 years old, I knew that my college major would be psychology, with some dabbling in sociology.

Do you have Asperger's?

It's good that you are aware of it, and have some understanding of how people view it. I assume that you have come to accept that some people will just not be able to put up with it, except in tiny doses.

It really depends on the person. I do have a few friends who can deal with me just fine. The AS is a non-issue with them. However, most people just don't know how to deal with me. It can get pretty depressing at times.

One other thing that I wanted to say was that it didn't seem to me that her brush off was terribly hostile. What happened was that she saw that other people were noticing your behavior, and the easiest thing to do at that point was just to quietly close up shop. It probably wasn't her intention to be hurtful with her comment, she was just trying to relate to the "normies" who were being made uncomfortable by your lack of social understanding. It's surprising how much discomfort people can experience when one person isn't following all of the secret, agreed upon rules.

I think that the only ones who were uncomfortable were my friend and the one who took a shot at me on FB last Friday. I felt that she was hostile by insulting me directly on Monday with, "Are you being daft and annoying on purpose?", when I asked about the supposed redundancy of having both a passport and a NEXUS pass, and her passive-aggressive statement from which I couldn't defend myself after I'd been de-friended on Tuesday. She's highly educated and in her mid-30s, so there's no legitimate excuse for such childish behavior.

Posted by Shawn W. Step, I appreciate the sympathetic ear, but I'd like to clear up a few things.

OK, we can do that, or we can formulate a game plan? Which do you think will be more constructive?

I mean we can go on for page after page and talk about how mean people suck, and "if they only understood" all the minute details Things Would Be Different, but we both know where that discussion is going to end up. Nothing will be solved, and people will be the same assholes theyve always been. Theyre not going to change! Whether Rain Man was autistic or an aspie or whether I or anyone else got every single detail of your attorney friend's behaviour right isnt going to tip the scales, it just Isnt.

I think this thread and all we've learned about each other needs to be seen as an indicator that a shift needs to take place. We know something about you, and hopefully you in turn realise that youre not alone in your pain. Take that knowledge and put it to action. Seek sympathetic people. Let go of your resentment, it's hollow and won't lead you to peace. Accept the world for the unfair place it is and know that there's still some people here and there who truly Get It, and there IS HOPE. It may not be enough to fill your belly, it may NEVER be enough, but it can nourish you and keep you going. Theres billions of people out there just like you who don't get enough of one thing or another, and it SUCKS, but that's all you got. you got to make it a life.

Posted by Shawn W. Do you have Asperger's?

No, I don't think I would be diagnosable at all, but I definitely have some spectrum traits, as do my children.

cosigned, ive definitely got a mind for useless knowledge and hyperfocus, theres two symptoms...

Pain In The Ass? THREE symptoms. Im starting to get depressed...

I took this diagnostic test at a therapist's office for it last year.

I came up with most of the symptoms myself. Mild-moderate, but there just the same. The therapist felt I should go see a psychiatrist for a final diagnosis, but she believed that this is what the problem is with me.

I don't go in for psychiatric therapy, not after seeing the hell they've managed to make of my sister's life, she has schizophrenia. I hate psychiatrists with a passion and I honestly don't feel like being medicated out of who I am.

The thing is, my job fits me. Mostly I work on an assembly line, wrapping rolls of paper or on another machine cutting rolls of paper into smaller rolls of paper. Which are jobs normal people hate and despise with a passion. The only major thing I've found that I can do that others really can't is that I can make the computer system do just about anything I want it to and fix everyone elses mistakes. My past jobs failed because I can't keep it together around people or work well in a customer service type job, which is what I used to do and tried to do for over five years. One job I had did work, I worked nights, dealt with small groups of people or individuals and didn't have to do customer service, all I did was admit people into the emergency room and/or the inpatient wing. But this job fits me above all others. It'll be 5 years in November that I've been there, longest I've held any job without either being driven to quit or getting sick of it. What's crazy is this is the first real job I've actually been successful at and makes me feel like I'm worth something and that I really am missed when I'm not there.

For example, I go on vacation and my coworkers get pissed off because they know that roll numbers that need to be fixed in the computer system won't be fixed for a week and will sit there till I get back, or managers call me on the assembly line looking for information that they should have already, since they know all and see all, supposedly.

Most of the jobs where I work are repetitive and monotonous, but they work for people with this disorder or other disorders or people who are just good at repetitive work. This job especially is that way, also you deal with one or two other people and numbers, lots and lots of numbers, financial, as well as product codes and production order numbers.

It's crazy, it's ridiculous, but it fits, all of it. It fits that this job, who 90 percent of the people in the plant hate because it's so monotonous, fits me because it's exactly what someone with AS would be good at. What's crazier is that I took a job as a union trustee because I was asked to, mostly to handle the paperwork and to do research for and on behalf of the union.

Anyway, there's work out there that will fit you, you just have to work at finding it, in my case, it was the last place I thought I would, the place my stepdad worked for 38 years.

Shael

Posted by Shael I took this diagnostic test at a therapist's office for it last year. I came up with most of the symptoms myself. Mild-moderate, but there just the same. The therapist felt I should go see a psychiatrist for a final diagnosis, but she believed that this is what the problem is with me. I don't go in for psychiatric therapy, not after seeing the hell they've managed to make of my sister's life, she has schizophrenia. I hate psychiatrists with a passion and I honestly don't feel like being medicated out of who I am. Shael

I loathe psychiatrists. I firmly believe that they are some of the most useless people on the planet. Being on medication is a fucking nightmare. Even worse depending on what they put you on. If they put you on effexor it can take close to a year just to ween yourself off. I know this.

Anyways, I've known people with aspies most of my life. One of my ex's had it and my cousin does too. After reading this thread, it kinda made me think that maybe I have it. At least a mild case. I've been told I have this weird trait about me where if I meet people, I'll completely ignore them or act as though I don't like them. Not making eye contact and other subtle gestures. I never realized it until people started to point it out to me. When they do, I have absolutely no recollection of it. I'm pretty bad at first impressions. Another thing I read here, was about saying the wrong thing when drunk/intoxicated. There have been a few times where I made a lot of people feel uncomfortable with the shit that came out of my mouth. I haven't given up drinking, but I definitely always have to be aware of what I'm saying/doing. I also had a horrible time making friends and such at school. I was terribly awkward. Eventually I learned to become social though. The loneliness of my childhood gave me ample time to watch and study people.

After the 10 years or so in various sorts of therapy, no one has ever told me that I had aspies. For the longest time they didn't even think I was depressed til I ended up in the hospital. One thought I just had a learning disorder, which is bullshit. I have the ability to retain a shit load of information. But anyways... I'm rambling and getting off topic.

Soooo I'm thinking, maybe the fact that I tend to get along wonderfully with people with aspies is because I can relate.

Okay guys, it worked. As everyone knows, this whole thread was staged just to maneuver Oryx into realizing what we all knew, but didn't want to tell her. We can lock it now.

Actually, she's just part snake.
That's why she gets along better with Gomer and Lettuce than she does with people. ;)
Although [oryx] you were quite an awesome person in DC even under the influence of alcohol, so I would not worry too much about it darling.

Posted by Yield Actually, she's just part snake. That's why she gets along better with Gomer and Lettuce than she does with people. ;) Although [oryx] you were quite an awesome person in DC even under the influence of alcohol, so I would not worry too much about it darling.

Haha I just over think things waaaay too much sometimes