Posted by Livingstone Is "god did not create the universe" a new idea??? I don't see the intelligence behind this statement, it can NEVER be proved and it can never be anything but a belief. But i should read the book, it may be stated in a less extreme fashion. I've no doubt the man can think. I did read a brief history of time. The above is just a publicity grabbing nonsensical statement and full of conceit at that.

I'm sure that's part of it. He does have a new book coming out, after all.

Can one "prove" that a god didn't create the universe? Of course not. But extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and there is no evidence that one did create the universe. I think that is his point.

So IF (still haven't read the book) Hawking has some sort of workable model based on testable data that shows how the universe can be created/recreated/whatever using the already present energy available and not need an outside source to initiate the change then we have two simple options.

1)Test the model

2)Continue to assert that everything everywhere was created by an all-knowing, all-powerful, ever-present something.

The rational people will go with #1.

Posted by Oryx So from now on if one comes up with a radical theory about god they should keep it to themselves? What sense does that make?

That's not what I'm suggesting, just make it a believable, provable statement. It is science after all, provable ideas are kinda important in that realm.

It's a ridiculous claim. Can't understand why that isn't obvious. Just as ridiculous as the one made by the physicist author, whose name i don't recall, finding scientific proof of god.

And if it wasn't the ALL POWERFUL ONE that created the universe, what kind of a god let's that shit happen on its watch anyway? Like what was god doing at the time? and if there was something else involved that wasn't god, what was it and what kind of a god wouldn't be everything that is/isn't? The ignominy of it all, it's no wonder we haven't seen any signs of the divine one.

God: "damn, it's that noise in green sector 3T again, what the eff is that"
Or for Tom Waits fans "what is he building in there"

Unless of course, and I suspect it's true, the Gnostics were right, the Demiurge did it. That halfbreed bastard messing with the masters tools as he slept off an eon of heavy drinking.

Now, if he said the god of the christians didn't create the universe I"d buy that.

Posted by splumer I'm sure that's part of it. He does have a new book coming out, after all. Can one "prove" that a god didn't create the universe? Of course not. But extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and there is no evidence that one did create the universe. I think that is his point.

It may very well be, makes for a more plausible argument. Hard to tell from the six words I've been working with.

Posted by Livingstone That's not what I'm suggesting, just make it a believable, provable statement. It is science after all, provable ideas are kinda important in that realm. It's a ridiculous claim. Can't understand why that isn't obvious. Just as ridiculous as the one made by the physicist author, whose name i don't recall, finding scientific proof of god. And if it wasn't the ALL POWERFUL ONE that created the universe, what kind of a god let's that shit happen on its watch anyway? Like what was god doing at the time? and if there was something else involved that wasn't god, what was it and what kind of a god wouldn't be everything that is/isn't? The ignominy of it all, it's no wonder we haven't seen any signs of the divine one. God: "damn, it's that noise in green sector 3T again, what the eff is that" Or for Tom Waits fans "what is he building in there" Unless of course, and I suspect it's true, the Gnostics were right, the Demiurge did it. That halfbreed bastard messing with the masters tools as he slept off an eon of heavy drinking. Now, if he said the god of the christians didn't create the universe I"d buy that.

That's all just opinion. You claiming that he's arrogant for thinking he understands the universe is no different than you claiming he's wrong. How would you know any better than anyone else about what god can and cannot be if the entity/force whatever is so obscure?

Posted by Oryx That's all just opinion. You claiming that he's arrogant for thinking he understands the universe is no different than you claiming he's wrong. How would you know any better than anyone else about what god can and cannot be if the entity/force whatever is so obscure?

Maybe you've missed my point--NOBODY FUCKING KNOWS. Thought I made it clear that I include myself in that lot.

And I don't think he is arrogant for thinking he understands the universe, I believe he is conceited in thinking he can claim god didn't create it.

Edit:
ps

In matters of what god did, does, is or was or wants even, it's ALL opinion.