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UER Forum > Private Boards Index > Religious Discussion > "The Response" (Viewed 1675 times)
Esoterik 


Location: Kansas City
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"The Response"
< on 8/2/2011 8:43 PM >
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Posted on Forum: UER Forum
http://indiancount...acism-and-bigotry/

A mix of racism and bigotry against American Indians, Palestinians, Muslims, Jews, gay people and others is the backdrop to a mass rally billed as “A National Day of Prayer” that will take place in Texas the first weekend in August.

Texas governor and Republican presidential hopeful Rick Perry initiated the event, which is named “The Response: A Call to Pray” on its website. The event, featuring some of the most prominent figures of the Christian Right, will take place all day on August 6 at Reliant Stadium in Houston, Texas, which seats 71,500 people.

In a video on the website pitching “The Response” Perry stands against a backdrop of the American and Texas flags and looks straight into the camera. “As an elected leader I’m all too aware of government’s limitations when it comes to fixin’ things that are spiritual in nature. That’s where prayer comes in and we need it more than ever,” he says. “With the economy in trouble, communities in crisis and people adrift in a sea of moral relativism, we need God’s help. That’s why I’m calling on Americans to pray and fast like Jesus did and as God called the Israelites to do in the Book of Joel. I sincerely hope you’ll join us on August 6 and take your place in Reliant Stadium with praying people asking God’s forgiveness, his wisdom and provision for our state and nation.”

“The Response” is aimed at “people of all ages, races, backgrounds and Christian denominations.” No other religions or belief systems will be represented. While Perry insists that “The Response is “apolitical” he has “invited all U.S. governors as well as many other national Christian and political leaders” to the event. Only one governor, Republican Sam Brownback of Kansas, plans to attend “The Response,” according to Chron.

Brownback, who wrote A Resolution of Apology to Native American Peoples, which President Obama signed in January 2010, seems to be an unlikely attendee given the anti-Indian rhetoric of the event’s sponsor – Bryan Fischer of the American Family Association (AFA). Brownback did not respond to requests for comment.

“The Response” has generated a squall of controversy, much of it centered around Fischer, the AFA’s Director of Analysis for Government and Public Policy. Fischer is perhaps best known for warning the people of America that President Obama “wants to give the entire land mass of the United States of America back to the Indians. He wants Indian tribes to be our new overlords.” But it was Fischer’s article “Native Americans Morally Disqualified Themselves from the Land” published last winter that has generated the harshest criticism for its blatant racism against the Indigenous Peoples of Turtle Island.

The article was removed from the AFA website but is archived as Text of Fischer’s Racist Screed on Newspaper Rock. In it, Fischer claims that “the superstition, savagery and sexual immorality of native (sic) Americans” made them “morally disqualified from sovereign control of American soil.” He draws an analogy between the Indigenous Peoples of this country and the “Amorites, or Canaanite peoples” – the ancestors of today’s Palestinians – who “practiced one moral abomination after another, whether it was incest, adultery, sexually immorality, homosexuality, bestiality or child sacrifice, and God finally said ‘Enough’” – and gave the land to the ancient Israelites.

Similarly, “native (sic) American” tribes at the time of European settlement were steeped in the basest forms of superstition, had been guilty of savagery in warfare for hundreds of years, and practiced the most debased forms of sexuality,” Fischer says. Furthermore, Fischer says, American Indians resisted “the appeal” of European Christianity and “resisted every attempt” at conversion, a claim that is belied by the presence of many historic churches on Indian lands and the large numbers of Christians among the Indigenous Peoples today. He draws further parallels between “missionaries murdered in cold blood” by the Indigenous Peoples of Turtle Island and “abominations of the indigenous Canaanites tribes” as the implicit reason why “God” gave the land of the Indigenous Peoples of Turtle Island to European Christians and land of the Canaanites – Palestine – to European Jews.

ICTMN columnist Steve Newcomb was among the first to point out, in an article called Radio Evangelist Preaches An Ugly Message, that Fischer’s “thinly veiled race-purity arguments” form the foundation of American Indian law and continue to justify colonization and dispossession in the 21st century.

“We find it most evident in the Doctrine of Christian Discovery that exists in U.S. federal Indian law, as expressed in Supreme Court ruling Johnson v. M’Intosh (1823), whereby the Court said that the first ‘Christian people’ to ‘discover’ lands inhabited by ‘heathens’ had assumed the ‘ultimate dominion’ to be in themselves,’” Newcomb writes. Fischer’s argument of ‘moral disqualification’ is rooted in the Old Testament story the Chosen People and the Promised Land, “in which the deity of the Old Testament is depicted as ‘promising’ the lands of other peoples to the Hebrews ‘as an everlasting possession’ and ‘inheritance,’” Newcomb writes. The Canaanites and other tribes had to be dehumanized and demonized because “God” instructed the Hebrews to slay all of them. “In other words, the very narrative that Mr. Fischer uses as his standard of judgment against American Indians is a dehumanizing genocidal narrative; that basis alone disqualifies it from being any kind of moral standard of judgment against anyone,” Newcomb writes.

But Fischer’s genocidal impulse is not limited to American Indians. Contemporary Muslims are also targeted. Muslims, Fischer says, can either convert to Christianity or die. “The only thing that will give us a shot at building a democracy in an Islamic land is a mass conversion of its people to biblical Christianity. So that means if we want to see freedom come to those darkened, benighted lands, we should be sending missionaries in right after we send in the Marines to neutralize whatever threat has been raised against the United States,” he says in a YouTube video.

The Christian Right’s jihad against Muslims – or “Saracens,” as they are called in Doctrine of Discovery documents – had its genesis in the Crusades, the 11th and 12th century military expeditions by European Christian armies to occupy historic Palestine, which was under Muslim rule. Prejudice against Muslims in America has soared since 9/11 and finds its most potent expression in the U.S. government’s unconditional support of Israel’s continuing occupation and settler-colonization of Palestinian land, regardless of which political party is in power.

The parallel between the Indigenous Peoples of America and Palestine are highlighted in a recent unsigned review of Devon Mihesua’s American Indians: Stereotypes and Realities; Stephen Sheehi’s Islamophobia: The Ideological Campaign Against Muslims; and Francis Boyle’s The Palestinian Right of Return Under International Law in Al Ahram, which reflects on different aspects of racism in the U.S. and its extension abroad.

“The racism against Native Americans and Muslim Americans comes together in U.S. Middle East policy, with the victimization of Palestinians,” the writer says. “U.S. domestic racism is projected internationally on the Middle East in the unqualified support of Israel as a Jewish state,” the reviewer said.

Perry expressed his unconditional support of Israel recently in a letter urging Attorney General Eric Holder to prosecute American citizens who were on The Audacity of Hope, the U.S. Boat to Gaza, for allegedly providing “material aid or resources to a foreign terrorist organization.” (Full disclosure: This reporter was a passenger on the boat). The Audacity of Hope was part of the international Freedom Flotilla II: Stay Human which was attempting to break Israel’s illegal blockade of Gaza. Among the passengers were Pulitzer-prize winning American novelist and poet Alice Walker; Ann Wright, a former U.S. Army colonel and diplomat who resigned in 2003 in protest against President George Bush’s war on Iraq; and former CIA analyst Ray McGovern. Perry’s office did not respond to a request for comment.

But unconditional support for Israel does not eliminate Jewish anti-Semitism. One of the “honorary chairs” for “The Response” is Focus on the Family founder Dr. James Dobson, who was reprimanded by the Anti-Defamation League for comparing stem cell research to Nazi medical experiments during the Holocaust. The ADL itself has been accused of being a terrorist organization in Steven Salaita’s new book, Israel’s Dead Soul.

Among the “national endorsers” of “The Response” is Dr. James Swallow, Southern Cheyenne/Sioux founder of Two Rivers Native American Training Center, a Christian ministry training center in Oklahoma. It is not clear if Swallow is aware of Fischer’s anti-Indian racism. Swallow did not respond to a phone call and e-mail requesting comment on the issue.

Other participants at The Response include C. Peter Wagner, a Colorado evangelist, who advocates placing the government and media under Christian control, as well as burning the statues of Catholic saints; John Hagee, who has called the Roman Catholic Church the “Whore of Babylon,” and said that God used Hitler to have the Jews resettle Israel; and Mike Bickle of the International House of Prayer in Kansas City, Missouri, who described Oprah Winfrey as a “pastor” of the “Harlot Babylon” that will be a precursor to the coming of the Antichrist.

Right Wing Watch reported on July 25 that Perry has tried to distance himself from the many extreme activists he is working with to put on The Response. “But Perry is open about his ties to advocates of Seven Mountains Dominionism, an ideology which demands that fundamentalist Christians take total control over all aspects of society,’ the report says. Dominionism advocate Jim Garlow is directing National Church Mobilization for The Response and other Dominionist endorsers include Cindy Jacobs and David Barton. Even the American Family Association now promotes Seven Mountains Dominionism.

On July 28, a district court in Houston tossed out a lawsuit that was trying to prevent Perry from participating in The Response. Judge Gray Miller dismissed the case after finding the plaintiffs had no standing and cited a 7th circuit ruling in favor of President Obama promoting a “national day of prayer,” according to ABC News. The lawsuit against Perry was filed by the Freedom From Religion Foundation, a Wisconsin-based state/church watchdog group which believes Perry’s involvement in the event violates the First Amendment’s Establishment Clause. The plaintiffs did not want to stop the rally from occurring but wanted the courts to bar Perry from promoting or participating in the event in any capacity.

The Texas governor commented on the case, telling reporters he hoped the courts will follow the precedent of other national days of prayer. “My prayer is that the courts will find the First Amendment is still applicable to governors no matter what they might be doing. That what we’ve done in the State of Texas or the Governor’s office is appropriate and no different than what George Washington or Abraham Lincoln or President Truman or President Obama have done with a day or prayer,” Perry said, according to the ABC report.





“You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons.”
Esoterik 


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Re: "The Response"
< Reply # 1 on 8/2/2011 8:46 PM >
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http://english.alj...7259426336524.html

America's own Taliban

A fast growing right-wing politico-religious presence plans to implement an end-times, Christian theocracy in the US.

Prior to 9/11, the Taliban government in Afghanistan did not register very much on American radar screens, with one notable exception: when it blew up two colossal images of the Buddha in Bamiyan province in early 2001. But destruction of treasured artifacts isn't just limited to the Taliban.

There's a right-wing politico-religious presence centred in the US, but with a global reach, engaging in similar practises, destroying religious and cultural artifacts as a key aspect of its ideology of "strategic level spiritual warfare" (SLSW).

Until recently a fringe evangelical movement, warned against as deviant, "spiritual warfare" is rapidly positioning itself within America's mainstream political right. It's well past time for political journalists to start covering what this movement is up to.

As an example, leaders have bragged online about the destruction of Native American religious artifacts, which their twisted ideology somehow sees as a liberating act, promoting "reconciliation" between estranged groups of people. Critics, however, see it as reflecting an eliminationist mindset, while traditional conservative evangelicals have denounced the ideology as un-biblical. Some even claim it is actually a form of pagan practice dressed up in Christian clothes, according such artifacts a spiritual power that the Bible itself denies.

The ultimate goal is to replace secular democracy, both in America and around the world, with a Christian theocracy, an ideology known as "dominionism". The supposed purpose is to "purify" the world for Christ's return - again, strikingly similar to what the Taliban believe, but also significantly at odds with more common, long-standing Christian beliefs about the "end times", as well as the nature and purpose of prayer, and the roles of human and divine power.

This description might seem utterly fantastical, but copious evidence for it is hidden in plain sight, scattered across the internet, in books, on YouTube, and tracked by a small community of researchers at sites such as Talk2Action.org and RightWingWatch.org, as well as by evangelical critics. The question is: When will America's mainstream media catch up?

The missed story in the 2008 campaign

Known as the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR), a term coined by its intellectual godfather, C Peter Wagner, this movement surfaced in the 2008 campaign, with video of one of its most prominent practitioners, Kenyan witch-hunter Thomas Muthee, anointing Sarah Palin - but the mainstream media largely missed the real story on a number of counts.

They generally failed to realise that Muthee was part of a Western-based movement, indeed, he starred in the first "Transformations" video, a pseudo-documentary series advancing SLSW, advertised as having been seen by 200 million people in 70 languages.

Media also overlooked clear evidence that Palin herself was part of an Alaskan group involved in SLSW, dating back to when she was just 24 years old. More basically, media failed to grasp the radical nature of NAR, and its departure from earlier evangelical practice. This is so new that many academic experts haven't caught up with it.

Additionally, many in the media relied on Charisma magazine for guidance - a publication deeply aligned with the NAR. Add this to the media's general skittishness when accused of bias by Palin and her supporters, and the result was a perfect storm of story suppression, much of it seemingly quite reasonable.

A rare exception, which did not occur until very late in the campaign, was Laurie Goodstein's October 24 story in the New York Times, "YouTube Videos Draw Attention to Palin's Faith", which did discuss spiritual warfare and Palin's involvement, but barely brushed against the underlying agenda of dominionism and its more troubling implications.

The story this time

Inside USA - Christianity in US politics

This election cycle, the media will have another chance to get the story right. The NAR has made great strides since 2008, and already, NAR figures are deeply involved in organising for Texas Governor Rick Perry's August 6 prayer meeting, "The Response".

On July 12, MSNBC's Rachel Maddow did a segment highlighting some of their more bizarre claims in a series of video clips. These included Wagner saying that the Japanese stock market collapsed because the emperor had sex with a demon (the sun goddess), another leading NAR figure, John Benefiel, calling the Statue of Liberty "a demonic idol", and a third figure, Mike Bickle, calling Oprah Winfrey "a forerunner to the Harlot movement", or, as Maddow put it, a "harbinger of the antichrist".

But these aren't just a collection of random bizarre claims. As researcher Rachel Tabachnick - who's been studying NAR since 2008 - wrote the day after: "These video clips should receive much more national exposure, but they need to be viewed in context of the movement they represent."

Not your father's religious right

Encompassing a variety of organisations and networks of activist groups, the NAR is not just concerned about particular issues, such as abortion or gay rights, or even about so-called "values", which is the impression that even Goodstein's 2008 story left with readers.

Rather, the NAR is committed to replacing democracy with a religious dictatorship, which it sees as a necessary prelude for Christ's return to earth.

Consequently, the NAR is also openly dedicated to destroying religious and cultural groups who do not share their beliefs - even including others on the Christian Right. They openly denounce Mormonism and Roman Catholicism as demonic, but in the end all Protestant denominations are seen as impediments to creating one unified religious establishment which should in turn control all of society, entirely replacing America's secular democracy, and bringing about their own version of "one-world government".

This is explicitly articulated in terms of what's known as the "Seven Mountains Mandate", which seeks to establish Christian dominance over seven culture-shaping spheres of activity: business, government, media, arts and entertainment, education, family, and religion. On one of Muthee's several visits to Sarah Palin's church in Wasilla, he spoke for about ten minutes about the Seven Mountains Mandate.

The NAR's non-church, non-denominational apostolic/prophetic organisation is key to its recent rapid growth and its relative invisibility to outsiders, but it also departs significantly from traditional scriptural teachings long held dear by evangelicals, as do many of its teachings.

Indeed, in August 2000, the Assemblies of God, America's largest Pentecostal denomination, adopted a statement warning against a number of tendencies, under the heading "Deviant Teachings Disapproved", including, but not limited to, some prominent elements involved in the NAR. However, Tabachnick informed me that "unfortunately many in the Assemblies of God have changed their tune on this and embraced the NAR".

Yet many have not changed, and the warnings still serve to highlight how this latest development is not the same religious right wing as in your father's day.

One tendency warned against was dominionism itself, which the document called "unscriptural triumphalism". It also warned against "the problematic teaching that present-day offices of apostles and prophets should govern church ministry at all levels", and against "excessive fixation on Satan and demonic spirits". These are all major aspects of NAR theology, as is the concept of "generational curses", which the document also warns against.

In short, the NAR may be gaining substantial ground on the religious right, but in doing so, it is profoundly undermining a raft of biblical teachings that the vast majority of evangelicals have staunchly clung to until quite recently. This is, indeed, not your father's religious right. It is arguably destroying your father's religious right.

Strategic level spiritual warfare: A myth? A heresy? Or worse?

Because of the goal of gaining dominion over all of society, spiritual warfare to drive out demons who supposedly stand in the way of this goal plays a central role in NAR thinking. There are, three levels to spiritual warfare, as Talk2action.org explains in their glossary of NAR terms:

Ground level spiritual warfare is casting out demons from individuals. Occult level spiritual warfare is a confrontation with demons operating through witchcraft and esoteric philosophies (examples are Freemasonry and Tibetan Buddhism). Strategic Level Spiritual Warfare is the highest level, dealing with confrontation of territorial principalities that control entire communities, ethnic groups, religions, and nations.

While there are many evangelical critics of spiritual warfare and the NAR, and a great deal of material online, Bishop Michael Reid - who has three degrees from Oral Roberts University, including an honorary Doctorate of Divinity - literally wrote the book on the subject.

Although he's since had his own gay sex scandal - much like Wagner's long-time close associate, Ted Haggard - his 2002 book, Strategic Level Spiritual Warfare: A Modern Mythology? remains a devastating Bible-based critique, in which he writes, regarding SLSW:

"There is no foundation in the Old Testament for this practice, nor any indication that the devil has any intrinsic power or authority. Satan's only weapon is deception and his only sphere of influence that which God permits for His own eternal purposes.

"In the New Testament, the picture is similar; there is no evidence to suggest that Christians are called to engage in an on-going conflict with spiritual forces in the cosmic realm. The Scripture is quite clear in its teaching that Christ defeated Satan completely at Calvary and that Christians have been freed from his power."

Reid sees this unscriptural ideology usurping God's role and elevating mere mortals to a higher place - precisely the sort of thing that NAR's leading advocates accuse secularists of doing:

"The whole focus of SLSW is on the devil and his demonic host ... Man has become the fulcrum of redemption, holding the balance of power between God and the devil in the battle for the souls of men, and the gospel itself rendered impotent without the preliminary work of pulling down demonic strongholds ... These are serious matters which call into question the very basis of the Christian faith."

"The Harlot Babylon is preparing the nations to receive the antichrist. The Harlot Babylon will be a religion of affirmation, toleration, no absolutes, a counterfeit justice movement ... I believe that one of the main pastors as a forerunner to the Harlot movement is Oprah."

Mike Bickle, NAR

In short, SLSW is implicitly about the egos of "spiritual warriors", rather than Christian humility.

Reid also repeatedly suggests that SLSW is actually pagan in origins, and thus a form of syncretism, the very sort of mixture between Christianity and older pagan religions that biblical literalists of all stripes abhor. For example:

"Hesselgrave draws the analogy between warfare prayer and the prayer typical of Indo-European paganism with its dualistic understanding of the eternal co-existence of good and evil. The latter is viewed as a means 'to control the gods', but, in contrast, prayer in biblical thought is 'submission' to God'.

The idea that spiritual warfare as practised by the NAR is itself a pagan practice, perhaps even a form of demonic battle or that it elevates man over God are perceived examples of what psychologists call "projection", an ego defence mechanism.

But long before there were any psychologists, the Bible weighed in, Matthew 7:5: "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." We turn now to another such example.

Oprah and the Antichrist - A case of projection?

On July 12, Rachel Maddow began the segment mentioned earlier with a video of NAR bigwig, Mike Bickle, in which he said:

"The Harlot Babylon is preparing the nations to receive the antichrist. The Harlot Babylon will be a religion of affirmation, toleration, no absolutes, a counterfeit justice movement. They will feed the poor, have humanitarian projects, inspire acts of compassion for all the wrong reasons. They won't know it ... I believe that one of the main pastors as a forerunner to the Harlot movement is Oprah."

Although Maddow naturally focused on the claim that Oprah was somehow a harbinger of the antichrist, it's arguably even more interesting that Bickle so accurately - if inadvertently - describes one of the NAR's own favourite practices, what it calls "reconciliation" between groups that are estranged from one another, be they ethnic, racial or nationalist. These often, but not always, involve the destruction of religious/cultural artifacts and are supposed to lift so-called "generational curses".

One such example revolved around Kansas Governor Sam Brownback, formerly a US senator.

"Brownback has taken part in NAR 'Reconciliation' events since 2003, and subsequently introduced Senate resolutions apologising to Native Americans," Tabachnick wrote at Talk2Action.org last year. "These Reconciliation ceremonies are not about pluralism, but about proselytising - for both charismatic evangelical belief and right wing politics."

Eventually one such resolution was incorporated into legislation. On the other side, a number of Native American NAR leaders were involved in the ritual destruction of objects said to depict false gods. Given the centuries-long history of the many ways that Native American culture has been destroyed by white America, it is nothing short of absurd to claim that "reconciliation" can be brought about by further acts of cultural destruction. Yet, that is precisely what the NAR practices.

This is, at best, to use Bickle's own word, a "counterfeit" movement.

Another indication of how counterfeit such "reconciliation" is lies in just who represents each side. In this example, it was eventually the US government on one side, and a religious network of self-hating Native Americans on the other. If that seems a bit lopsided, it is more typical than not.

A similar pattern can be found in reconciliation rituals with "Jews" who are so-called "messianic Jews" - meaning they are actually practising born-again Christians. That's a bit like a "reconciliation" between Italian and Brazilian soccer fans, with the Brazilian fans being from the Italian embassy in Brasilia.

In another case, religion wasn't even really a factor, as a small, private reconciliation ritual in Texas was performed to bring black people back to the Republican Party. In her book, Bridging the Racial and Political Divide: How Godly Politics Can Transform a Nation, Alice Peterson describes how Susan Weddington, then chair of the Texas Republican Party, organised the ritual.

When the time came, Peterson wrote, she expected Weddington to ask forgiveness for whatever White Republicans had done - she seems to have no idea what that might have been. Instead, Weddington asked forgiveness for the Black Republicans who left the party.

Nowhere in Peterson's account is there any hint that Blacks became Democrats when Democrats renounced their racist past during the civil rights struggles of the 1950s and 1960s, and Republicans eagerly wooed tens of millions of White Democrats who fled their party as a result. In short, such make-believe "reconciliation" has nothing to do with spiritual truth, and everything to do with historical lies.

Work to be done

If this all seems a bit overwhelming, that's only because it is.

If the media had taken a serious critical look at Palin's religious beliefs and practices in 2008, all the above and more could have been examined and discussed in detail over the past three years. As it is, there is a lot of catching up to do.

There is no question that American political journalists are up to the task - if they put their minds to it. The only question is, will they do it? Will they dare to seriously consider the evidence of a Taliban-like movement in right-wing Christian America, seeking to impose its own form of "godly" government in place of the secular democracy established more than 200 years ago?

Journalists could begin to answer that question by taking a long hard look at the NAR figures endorsing Rick Perry's prayer event on August 6. Let's hope they do.





“You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons.”
jeepdave 


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It's also a gun.

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Re: "The Response"
< Reply # 2 on 8/2/2011 11:15 PM >
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A bunch of overhyped over inflated bullshit drug up and published by lazy journalist. Nothing really of substance in either article.




Ezekiel 25:17
Aleksandar 


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your darkest shadow, my oldest friend; the world's become ashes, this is the end.

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Re: "The Response"
< Reply # 3 on 8/3/2011 12:42 AM >
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Posted on Forum: UER Forum
this type of journalism is indeed a discredit to the profession.

it's clear the authors really want to say "republicans and christians are bad", but have to build themselves a bridge of circumstance to arrive at the point. it's like a cup game, really, shifting the cups around to confuse the reader.

so they start by dredging up a "bad christian/conservative", try to build a logical bridge to "up and coming republican rick perry", and then bridge that into "conservativism/christianity". unfortunately, such a long chain stretches credibility and all you're left with is someone saying the journalistic equivalent of "camels and giraffes both have fur, and both can be found in africa. in other words camels and giraffes are the same thing, and both are actually gazelles."

Sorry esoterik. Clearly you have heartfelt opinions on the matter, but i read both articles and fail to see the merit of either. (im a staunch independent btw....)





Freedom breeds war; and Peace, slavery. So it shall be forevermore: Men who love freedom buy it with their lives, and lovers of peace with their freedom.
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Re: "The Response"
< Reply # 4 on 8/3/2011 12:14 PM >
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I didn't read all of the second article, but I think it makes a lot of good points. I think they may be overstating the threat, but Dave & Alex, what in either article wasn't true?

Right after Rachel Maddow's show aired where she talked about some of the more bizarre opinions of Rick Perry's allies, he took the link off his website that listed the guest speakers at the "Response." Here's the site:
http://www.rickperry.org/prayer-rally

Of course, having those people speaking at his event doesn't necessarily mean that Perry shares their views, but some of these guys are pretty extreme. I predict this will hurt his presidential aspirations.

Thanks for posting these, Esoterik.




“We are not going to have the kind of cooperation we need if everyone insists on their own narrow version of reality. … the great divide in the world today … is between people who have the courage to listen and those who are convinced that they already know it all.”

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MutantMandias 

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Are you a reporter? Contact me for a UE interview! Also not averse to the the idea of group/anal.

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Re: "The Response"
< Reply # 5 on 8/3/2011 6:43 PM >
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Posted on Forum: UER Forum
Posted by Esoterik

Wagner saying that the Japanese stock market collapsed because the emperor had sex with a demon (the sun goddess), another leading NAR figure, John Benefiel, calling the Statue of Liberty "a demonic idol", and a third figure, Mike Bickle, calling Oprah Winfrey "a forerunner to the Harlot movement", or, as Maddow put it, a "harbinger of the antichrist".


Yeah. Nothing newsworthy there. Reporters should focus on important things, like Obama having sex with demons.




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Esoterik 


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Re: "The Response"
< Reply # 6 on 8/4/2011 7:04 PM >
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Posted by splumer
Of course, having those people speaking at his event doesn't necessarily mean that Perry shares their views, but some of these guys are pretty extreme. I predict this will hurt his presidential aspirations.


I think you are being kind. I think that Rick Perry knows exactly what the views are of his guest speakers and endorses them when he invites them to his prayer event. "Pretty extreme?!" Look at Bryan Fischer's own words:

http://www.rightwi...use-accept-christi

Bryan Fischer is back with another history lesson for us all - this one on how the Native Americans deserved to lose control of North America because "the superstition, savagery and sexual immorality" made them "morally disqualified from sovereign control of American soil."

You see, there are three ways that control over land is established: settlement, purchase, and conquest. And in the case of Native Americans, it turns out that they were just like the Canaanites who were so immoral that God decided that "the slop bucket was full, and it was time to empty it out" and so he tasked Israel with being the "custodian to empty the bucket and start over."

And in North America, that task fell to the Europeans ... and Fischer notes that "many of the tribal reservations today remain mired in poverty and alcoholism" because they refuse to embrace Christianity, as demonstrated by the Native American invocation at the Tucson memorial:

The native American tribes at the time of the European settlement and founding of the United States were, virtually without exception, steeped in the basest forms of superstition, had been guilty of savagery in warfare for hundreds of years, and practiced the most debased forms of sexuality.

...

The Lewis and Clark journals record the constant warfare between the nomadic Indian tribes on the frontier, and the implacable hostility of the Sioux Indians in particular.

The journals record the morally abhorrent practice of many native American chiefs, who offered their own wives to the Corps of Discovery for their twisted sexual pleasure. (Regrettably, many members of the Corps, Lewis and Clark excepted, took advantage of these offers and contracted numerous and debilitating sexually transmitted diseases as a result.)

The native American tribes ultimately resisted the appeal of Christian Europeans to leave behind their superstition and occult practices for the light of Christianity and civilization. They in the end resisted every attempt to “Christianize the Savages of the Wilderness,” to use George Washington’s phrase.

They rejected Washington’s direct counsel to the Delaware chiefs in 1779, “You do well to wish to learn our arts and ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ.”

Thomas Jefferson three times signed legislation appropriating federal tax dollars for the evangelizing of the Native American tribes. It all came to nought, as one tribe after another rejected the offer of spiritual light and advanced civilization.

...

God explained to the nation of Israel that because of the “abomination(s)” of the indigenous Canaanite tribes, the land had become unclean and “vomited out its inhabitants (Lev. 18:25).”

Is this to say the same holds true for native American tribes today? In many respects, the answer is of course no. But in some senses, the answer is yes. Many of the tribal reservations today remain mired in poverty and alcoholism because many native Americans continue to cling to the darkness of indigenous superstition instead of coming into the light of Christianity and assimilating into Christian culture.

The continued presence of native American superstition was on full display at the memorial service for the victims of the Tucson shooter, when the “invocation” (such as it was) was offered by a native American who sought inspiration from the “Seven Directions,” including “Father Sky” and “Mother Earth,” rather than the God of the Bible.

And just for good measure, Fischer concludes that we have become just immoral as the Native Americans and so it is only a matter of time before God empties the "slop bucket" of America:

Even worse, the reaction will likely obscure the sobering lesson for today. America in 2011 is as guilty of “abominations” as the native American tribes we replaced. We have the blood of 53 million babies on our hands through abortion. We have normalized sexual immorality, adultery, and homosexuality, all horrors in the eyes of God, and are witnessing a surge in incest, pedophilia and even bestiality in our midst.

God warned the ancient nation of Israel not to lapse into the abominable practices of the native peoples “lest the land vomit you out...as it vomited out the nation that was before you” (Lev. 18:28).

Time eventually ran out for the Canaanites, because they filled up the full measure of their iniquity. Time ran out for the native American tribes for the same reason.

The only question that matters today is this one: how much time does America have left to repent of its superstition, its savagery and its sexual immorality before it is too late, before we will have filled up our own slop bucket and will have morally disqualified ourselves from sovereign control of our own land?




[last edit 8/4/2011 7:08 PM by Esoterik - edited 1 times]

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Re: "The Response"
< Reply # 7 on 8/4/2011 7:11 PM >
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Posted by Esoterik

I think you are being kind. I think that Rick Perry knows exactly what the views are of his guest speakers and endorses them when he invites them to his prayer event. "Pretty extreme?!" These people are roiling with stark, staring hate and bigotry, with red-faced vein-throbbing hatred and anger towards anyone and everyone beyond the fold.


Perhaps I'm being naive, but I tend to think that people who make extreme statements like that in public don't necessarily believe them, but that they're just making extreme statements to gain attention and followers. Does Wagner really believe the emperor of Japan had sex with a demon? I doubt it. I think he just said that to rally the troops.

But I may be naive.




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Re: "The Response"
< Reply # 8 on 8/4/2011 9:40 PM >
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Posted by splumer

people who make extreme statements like that in public don't necessarily believe them, but that they're just making extreme statements to gain attention and followers


But, does it really matter? If he's willing to even say it, he's bat-shit crazy enough.




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Re: "The Response"
< Reply # 9 on 8/5/2011 12:24 PM >
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Posted by MutantMandias


But, does it really matter? If he's willing to even say it, he's bat-shit crazy enough.


True. I just wonder how people can get through the day believing some of this crazy shit. If they weren't religious, they'd be labeled as psychotic.

Speaking of which, as you may know, I work in a medical school, and last year there was a psychiatrist giving a lecture who, when talking about psychosis, mentioned belief in the supernatural as one of the symptoms, though she tread carefully around religious belief. I found it kind of funny.




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Re: "The Response"
< Reply # 10 on 8/5/2011 3:51 PM >
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what's scarier? these people making statements like these and believing them? Or people following these people and believing these statements as if they came from a god.

there is much to be said about the cult of personality and what damage it can do before being neutralized.

you want your faith? fine. you want your followers? fine. you want to play golf with jesus and pals on the weekend? awesomesauce, hope you have fun. But making idiot statements like ones in the above article just make the normals here in the asylum look at you like you just shat yourself and were rubbing it across the walls.

i think this ties into why so-called evangelicals are synonymous with LOONEY.



[last edit 8/5/2011 3:51 PM by Samurai - edited 1 times]

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