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Server Time:
2024-05-16 03:26:32
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 Witek
   
Location: Everywhere.
Gender: Male
onwards.
 |  |  | Ottawa UER notes - "mighty kingdom of domtar".
< on 9/16/2007 11:02 PM >
|  | | | Anyone forget something at Domtar?
I was in the area today and found what looks like a uer's notes.
Must have been left there today because we had heavy rain last night and this paper was completely dry.
Sorry about the crap picture, don't have a scanner.
I like finding stuff like this.
V-tech = V-Tek = Veetek = Witek. Make it count, say it right. |
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seicer
  
Location: New York
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Ottawa UER notes - "mighty kingdom of domtar".
<Reply # 1 on 9/16/2007 11:33 PM >
| | | | What is a "uer"? Should be "fellow urban explorer" 
Abandoned |
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Witek
Location: Everywhere.
Gender: Male
onwards.
| | | Re: Ottawa UER notes - "mighty kingdom of domtar".
<Reply # 2 on 9/17/2007 12:01 AM >
| | | | Posted by seicer
What is a "uer"? Should be "fellow urban explorer"
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Urban Explorer? heh, I'm new to the forums, so all the lingo is still on the n00b side.
V-tech = V-Tek = Veetek = Witek. Make it count, say it right. |
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lighthouse
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
| | Re: Ottawa UER notes - "mighty kingdom of domtar".
<Reply # 3 on 11/23/2007 1:46 AM >
| | | | Posted by Witek
Anyone forget something at Domtar?
I was in the area today and found what looks like a uer's notes.
Must have been left there today because we had heavy rain last night and this paper was completely dry.
http://i127.photob...ch/UE/DSC_6810.jpg
Sorry about the crap picture, don't have a scanner.
I like finding stuff like this.
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Hi,
May we discuss about it ?
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Hi/Po
Location: Earth
Gender: Male
| | Re: Ottawa UER notes - "mighty kingdom of domtar".
<Reply # 4 on 11/23/2007 6:21 AM >
| | | | The crappiest photos are the ones that don't display.
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Witek
Location: Everywhere.
Gender: Male
onwards.
| | | Re: Ottawa UER notes - "mighty kingdom of domtar".
<Reply # 5 on 11/23/2007 1:28 PM >
| | | | Posted by Hi/Po
The crappiest photos are the ones that don't display.
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Yeah, I was cleaning out my photo account a few weeks ago and decided I would never use this photo again. Now I'm just too lazy to look for it again.
V-tech = V-Tek = Veetek = Witek. Make it count, say it right. |
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hedd
 
Location: Ottawa, ON, CA
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Ottawa UER notes - "mighty kingdom of domtar".
<Reply # 6 on 11/26/2007 5:20 AM >
| | | | Posted by lighthouse
Hi,
May we discuss about it ?
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What a fucking ass.
Patrice Léger-Bourgoin
Conseiller principal aux communications - Région du Québec et du Sud de l'Ontario
609, Rang 12 -- C.P. 1010
Windsor (Québec) Canada
J1S 2L9
TÉLÉPHONE : 819-845-2771 poste 58437
TÉLÉCOPIEUR : 819-845-8230
COURRIEL : [email protected]
Patrice: I'd be glad to 'discuss about it' if you could speak english!!
- BG |
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Air
 
Location: Canada
| | Re: Ottawa UER notes - "mighty kingdom of domtar".
<Reply # 7 on 11/26/2007 5:21 AM >
| | | | Posted by hedd
What a fucking ass.
Patrice Léger-Bourgoin
Conseiller principal aux communications - Région du Québec et du Sud de l'Ontario
609, Rang 12 -- C.P. 1010
Windsor (Québec) Canada
J1S 2L9
TÉLÉPHONE : 819-845-2771 poste 58437
TÉLÉCOPIEUR : 819-845-8230
COURRIEL : [email protected]
Patrice: I'd be glad to 'discuss about it' if you could speak english!!
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What the hell, I bet its a great paying job too, literacy optional.
"The extraordinary beauty of things that fail." - Heinrich von Kleist |
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hyphen
Location: Ontario, Canada
Gender: Male
| | Re: Ottawa UER notes - "mighty kingdom of domtar".
<Reply # 8 on 11/28/2007 4:53 PM >
| | | | I'm not going to condone for a split second what this Patrice person did, but I really have to ask. . . why all the language digs? Does this make us all feel better? To play the role of schoolyard bully and mock someone's weakness? Clearly this person in French Canadian. We all know that Canada has two official languages, and you only have to be fluent in one to be considered literate. I don't know about any of the other Canadians in this thread, but I'm willing to freely admit that my French skills stink.
Should I consider the entire nation of South Korea illiterate because they don't all possess perfect English skills? No, they're just literate in a different language. One in which I happen to be illiterate.
/rant
EDIT: I should note that I was referring to the language digs both in this thread, and in the one where Witek posted the contents of the email.
(oh, and now is probably also the time to reveal that my nickname "langP" is short for Language Police. No joke.)
[last edit 11/28/2007 4:58 PM by hyphen - edited 1 times]
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hedd
Location: Ottawa, ON, CA
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Ottawa UER notes - "mighty kingdom of domtar".
<Reply # 9 on 11/29/2007 3:00 AM >
| | | |
Should I consider the entire nation of South Korea illiterate because they don't all possess perfect English skills?
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Yes.
If it makes you feel better, I have a French last name and my French is terrible. Then again, I don't have a job that requires me to speak the language, so I'm off the hook.
I suppose it's from a deep-rooted resentment of the fact that in this province, if you are an anglophone, you are held to the most rigourous standards if your work requires you to be bilingual. However, at the same time if you are a francophone you are almost automatically given credit as bilingual. At least, that has been my consistent experience in university and in dealing with people in all areas of government.
You asked.
- BG |
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oxygen8
Location: Toronto
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Ottawa UER notes - "mighty kingdom of domtar".
<Reply # 10 on 11/30/2007 6:54 AM >
| | | | I'm Bilingual, I get paid a premium to talk french to people all day. Sure it's a little bit of a cop out to attack this guy based on his poor command of the english language, and in any normal situation I wouldn't condone an attack based on that. I'm sure many french people I speak to can tell that french is not my first language, I wouldn't want them to judge me or ridicule me just because what I was saying wasn't grammatically correct. And, in a normal (friendly) situation I would never ridicule a french person speaking poor english to me. If the point is communicated then thats fine, I respect them for making the effort to speak english. HOWEVER, in this case, when you come into our arena, and start throwing around legal threats, (exactly the kind of thing that should be worded very precisely) then I think everyone on here has a right to tear you to pieces over your poorly worded post. If you login to any internet forum and do such things you deserve whatever flames are coming your way. In any case, from the posts I saw, I'd say it's less about poor english and more about poor legal jargon, trying to string a bunch of intimidating words together and failing horribly.
http://flickr.com/photos/adamgallant/ |
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cjb
Location: Sept-îles/Saint-John's/Corner Brooks/Montréal/Sydney
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Ottawa UER notes - "mighty kingdom of domtar".
<Reply # 11 on 12/2/2007 9:29 PM >
| | | | Posted by hedd
Yes.
If it makes you feel better, I have a French last name and my French is terrible. Then again, I don't have a job that requires me to speak the language, so I'm off the hook.
I suppose it's from a deep-rooted resentment of the fact that in this province, if you are an anglophone, you are held to the most rigourous standards if your work requires you to be bilingual. However, at the same time if you are a francophone you are almost automatically given credit as bilingual. At least, that has been my consistent experience in university and in dealing with people in all areas of government.
You asked.
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Your experience must be very poor then because you are absolutely not considered automatically bilingual when you are francophone. Most serious jobs will require you to be binlingual and to proove it, or to have english classes. so cut the whining.
And as for this Windsor guy, he comes from a deep-in-the-country french place where pretty much no one speaks english. His english is more than decent, probably much better than your french ( which I suppose you will save us from seeing).
And what is this story all about?? The more I think about it, it looks like a made-up story to catch attention. Why would a company harrass people on internet to 'protect' a closed down worthless factory??
That's totally senseless to me.
http://www.magazin...dossiers/index.htm |
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hedd
Location: Ottawa, ON, CA
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Ottawa UER notes - "mighty kingdom of domtar".
<Reply # 12 on 12/2/2007 10:01 PM >
| | | | Posted by cjb
Your experience must be very poor then because you are absolutely not considered automatically bilingual when you are francophone. Most serious jobs will require you to be binlingual and to proove it, or to have english classes. so cut the whining.
And as for this Windsor guy, he comes from a deep-in-the-country french place where pretty much no one speaks english. His english is more than decent, probably much better than your french ( which I suppose you will save us from seeing).
And what is this story all about?? The more I think about it, it looks like a made-up story to catch attention. Why would a company harrass people on internet to 'protect' a closed down worthless factory??
That's totally senseless to me.
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Huh? I don't know where to begin.
First of all, yes, my experiences have been bad with the double-standard of english vs. french speaking people in Ottawa.
Secondly, I already said up front that my French is terrible. And yes, I will spare you from it. Then again, my job does not require any correspondence in French.
Thirdly... "made up"? Three of us got a nearly-identical message from a new user here who freely admitted who he was representing, and who was banned shortly thereafter. You think this is all some clever scheme because we are attention-starved or something?
- BG |
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cjb
Location: Sept-îles/Saint-John's/Corner Brooks/Montréal/Sydney
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Ottawa UER notes - "mighty kingdom of domtar".
<Reply # 13 on 12/2/2007 10:15 PM >
| | | | Posted by hedd
You think this is all some clever scheme because we are attention-starved or something?
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Bingo. Why would Domtar wastes its money (and we know these days they don't have a lot) to harass kids on internet? They can't afford to pay their employees anymore.
Maybe it is true, but then it explains why this company is loosing so much money. Poor ressources allocation.
Fire the Windsor guy and buy some modern machinery instead of the 1940 paper mill that burns electricity ,has low efficiency, requires a lot of manpower, etc.
http://www.magazin...dossiers/index.htm |
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hedd
Location: Ottawa, ON, CA
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Ottawa UER notes - "mighty kingdom of domtar".
<Reply # 14 on 12/2/2007 11:23 PM >
| | | | Seriously?? You think we made up his name, job title, address, telephone number, email... why don't you call him and ask if he's real? here it is again:
Patrice Léger-Bourgoin
Conseiller principal aux communications - Région du Québec et du Sud de l'Ontario
609, Rang 12 -- C.P. 1010
Windsor (Québec) Canada
J1S 2L9
TÉLÉPHONE : 819-845-2771 poste 58437
TÉLÉCOPIEUR : 819-845-8230
COURRIEL : [email protected]
Domtar as a business may be suffering, but they are still sitting on millions of dollars worth of property, if nothing else.
- BG |
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kowalski
| | Re: Ottawa UER notes - "mighty kingdom of domtar".
<Reply # 15 on 12/3/2007 12:19 AM >
| | | | Posted by cjb
Maybe it is true, but then it explains why this company is loosing so much money. Poor ressources allocation.
Fire the Windsor guy and buy some modern machinery instead of the 1940 paper mill that burns electricity ,has low efficiency, requires a lot of manpower, etc.
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Do you know anything about the pulp and paper industry? If not, maybe you should read up on it a bit before making stupid comments.
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cjb
Location: Sept-îles/Saint-John's/Corner Brooks/Montréal/Sydney
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Ottawa UER notes - "mighty kingdom of domtar".
<Reply # 16 on 12/3/2007 2:41 AM >
| | | | Posted by kowalski
Do you know anything about the pulp and paper industry? If not, maybe you should read up on it a bit before making stupid comments.
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I know that industry very well. In fact, I work for a company who manages quite some money invested in several forest companies.
I've visited many plants of several companies.
As a grand genius of the paper and forest industry, you've heard of Cascades, the most profitable paper/packaging company in Canada? Who has invested tens of millions in new machinery, energy reduction measures? They haven't closed a single mill in the past 5 years. probably unrelated to their more recent technology.
Unlike Domtar, AbitibiBowater and such who just went for a quick buck in the late 90s?
Why are canadian mills beeing closed much more than american mills? the main reason is because american mills have much more recent equipment than ours, they have had investments unlike our mills who are still running on old technology.
The canadian-american dollar parity will not last and a company doesn't take a major decision like closing a factory only on a short term factor like this.
They have the choice between upgrading at high cost an old factory in Shawinigan, or running a much more performing mill built in 1992 in North Carolina.
Last week, Abitibi closed 2 major mills in Quebec, including the Shawinigan one, which hadn't been upgraded since the 1980s and was still running on some machines dating from the 50s.
AbitibiBowater, a canadian company, now runs most of its production in USA because of the more recent facilities inherited from Bowater. They're going to close their canadian production first because it would be too costly to upgrade.
Please feel free to share your grand experience with us, out of the alarming stuff you've read in newspapers about lack of demand or high canadian dollar.
[last edit 12/3/2007 2:46 AM by cjb - edited 1 times]
http://www.magazin...dossiers/index.htm |
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kowalski
| | Re: Ottawa UER notes - "mighty kingdom of domtar".
<Reply # 17 on 12/3/2007 3:52 AM >
| | | | Posted by cjb
...Unlike Domtar, AbitibiBowater and such who just went for a quick buck in the late 90s?
...
the main reason is because american mills have much more recent equipment than ours, they have had investments unlike our mills who are still running on old technology.
...
They have the choice between upgrading at high cost an old factory in Shawinigan, or running a much more performing mill built in 1992 in North Carolina.
...
AbitibiBowater, a canadian company, now runs most of its production in USA because of the more recent facilities inherited from Bowater. They're going to close their canadian production first because it would be too costly to upgrade.
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Now that's all a bit more intelligent, if not internally consistent.
Unfortunately, the choice between massive capital investment and total closure isn't a wholly satisfactory one. The switch to capital intensive, lean production in paper causes nearly as much human dislocation as a closure would, given that its new efficiencies demand the closing of a certain number of other plants and the elimination or informalization of dozens if not hundreds of jobs at the modernized facility.
As for Cascades, in 2006 they closed a coated paper mill in Thunder Bay and a paper and paper board mill in New Haven, CT. And last month they announced the shutdown of their softwood lumber mill in Lac Saint Jean and said they were negotiating the sale of equipment from the plant. That one was a new mill with an advanced residue recycling program, a place where as far as I can tell the unions and the management all embraced "lean" and did everything they could to make the thing profitable.
Domtar may be a big stupid corporation. It certainly sounds much like Bowater used to be. But the whole industry is in a prolonged crisis and restructuring. Plants are getting cut and they're not all old, labour-intensive facilities. Kruger's Corner Brook plant has seen one machine indefinitely idled this fall, despite the fact that tens of millions of dollars have been pumped into modernizing the place and implementing lean production there over the past 10-15 years.
As the contradictions in your own post should indicate, things are not nearly as clear cut (cough) as you'd like to pretend they are.
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cjb
Location: Sept-îles/Saint-John's/Corner Brooks/Montréal/Sydney
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Ottawa UER notes - "mighty kingdom of domtar".
<Reply # 18 on 12/3/2007 4:04 AM >
| | | | I can't deny there are a lot of deep problems in the paper and forest industry, but you can't deny neither that most of our mills are very old and outdated, and they can't compete anymore with much more recent mills in northern europe, russia, or even the USA.
And this makes our mills a prime choice for 'rationalization' and 'costs saving' .
And as for Cascades, they may have closed some minor operations, but they haven't cut in their main, core facilities like Domtar or AbitibiConsol have done. They still operate some very big factories ( and make profits) in the eastern townships in Qc and in Northern ontario.
The current level of closure for Domtar and Abitibi is unpreceeded.
We could almost consider they are moving out of Canada. They have too old, monolithic plants. Anyway, we could keep on arguing about this for a long time.
It brings another interesting point, that there will be many major exploration sites available in the next months/years.
[last edit 12/3/2007 4:10 AM by cjb - edited 1 times]
http://www.magazin...dossiers/index.htm |
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hedd
Location: Ottawa, ON, CA
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Ottawa UER notes - "mighty kingdom of domtar".
<Reply # 19 on 12/3/2007 4:09 AM >
| | | | I'm glad my initial cheap-shot at the guy's poor english has flourished into this elegantly-worded debate...
- BG |
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