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 Air
      
Location: Canada
 |  | Re: Old war relics dot Toronto - Article
<Reply # 20 on 10/15/2007 7:50 PM >
|  | | | Posted by langP
And because today's the 15 of the month, and just past noon, I just heard the sirens here in Seoul. They only cranked them on for a second, but a couple of years ago it was common for the "civil defense drills" to last 15 minutes.
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So is it regular practice for emergency preparedness? That's interesting actually.
"The extraordinary beauty of things that fail." - Heinrich von Kleist |
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hyphen
Location: Ontario, Canada
Gender: Male
| | Re: Old war relics dot Toronto - Article
<Reply # 21 on 10/15/2007 11:40 PM >
| | | | Yeah, after I posted that, around 2pm, they let it go for about 5 minutes. Then a while later they sounded the "all clear". It's interesting, because traffic stops all across the city. Anyone outside is instructed to seek immediate shelter. You can hear the fighter jets scrambling over the city.
If you listen though, you can still hear kids playing in the local park, see a woman on the roof of her apartment with a skipping rope and stuff like that.
Civil defense drills are quite surreal. Also very scary if you're not aware of what they are!
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eller
Location: Toronto
Gender: Female
| |  | Re: Old war relics dot Toronto - Article
<Reply # 22 on 10/16/2007 1:27 AM >
| | | | There is a siren on the roof of what appears to be a city owned Emergency building, on a side street north of Lawrence, off Yonge on the east side.
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Air
Location: Canada
| | Re: Old war relics dot Toronto - Article
<Reply # 23 on 10/16/2007 2:46 AM >
| | | | Posted by langP
Yeah, after I posted that, around 2pm, they let it go for about 5 minutes. Then a while later they sounded the "all clear". It's interesting, because traffic stops all across the city. Anyone outside is instructed to seek immediate shelter. You can hear the fighter jets scrambling over the city.
If you listen though, you can still hear kids playing in the local park, see a woman on the roof of her apartment with a skipping rope and stuff like that.
Civil defense drills are quite surreal. Also very scary if you're not aware of what they are!
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I didn't realize this was still regular practice in some places of the world. I'm currently in a disaster MGMT course, and we were taught that these 'drills' do not happen anymore.
[last edit 10/16/2007 2:46 AM by Air - edited 1 times]
"The extraordinary beauty of things that fail." - Heinrich von Kleist |
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kowalski
| | Re: Old war relics dot Toronto - Article
<Reply # 24 on 10/16/2007 4:10 AM >
| | | | Posted by Air 33
I didn't realize this was still regular practice in some places of the world. I'm currently in a disaster MGMT course, and we were taught that these 'drills' do not happen anymore.
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Seoul is within range of North Korean artillery, just 30 km from the DMZ. If intensive hostilities broke out again on the peninsula, the city would be devastated within the first few hours of the conflict.
I'm surprised it had to be pointed out to you that North America does not equal the Korean peninsula.
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NoSuchPerson
 
Stop, or I'll ask you again!
| | Re: Old war relics dot Toronto - Article
<Reply # 25 on 10/16/2007 4:22 AM >
| | | | Posted by eller
There is a siren on the roof of what appears to be a city owned Emergency building, on a side street north of Lawrence, off Yonge on the east side.
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That's not a City Emergency building, it's a TTC subway emergency exit as well as a transformer station for the subway.
IIRC, it was supposed to be a station (Glen Echo), but that never happened.
Unit calling radio say again? |
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hyphen
Location: Ontario, Canada
Gender: Male
| | Re: Old war relics dot Toronto - Article
<Reply # 26 on 10/16/2007 5:16 AM >
| | | | Posted by kowalski
Seoul is within range of North Korean artillery, just 30 km from the DMZ. If intensive hostilities broke out again on the peninsula, the city would be devastated within the first few hours of the conflict.
I'm surprised it had to be pointed out to you that North America does not equal the Korean peninsula.
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It's funny to read it like that, because I don't consider my home a warzone, but yeah. . .
Unopposed, tanks could make it from the DMZ to Seoul in about an hour.
Air raids or missile attacks however are another story. . . I must admit to being a bit surprised that they still run drills here because if it ever happened for real, you could forget about it. If a Russian warhead could reach North America in 15 or 20 minutes, think about how little reaction time the South Korean/US forces would have against a Northern attack. It'd be too late the moment they pressed the button.
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kowalski
| | Re: Old war relics dot Toronto - Article
<Reply # 27 on 10/16/2007 5:44 AM >
| | | | Posted by langP
It's funny to read it like that, because I don't consider my home a warzone, but yeah. . .
Unopposed, tanks could make it from the DMZ to Seoul in about an hour.
Air raids or missile attacks however are another story. . . I must admit to being a bit surprised that they still run drills here because if it ever happened for real, you could forget about it. If a Russian warhead could reach North America in 15 or 20 minutes, think about how little reaction time the South Korean/US forces would have against a Northern attack. It'd be too late the moment they pressed the button.
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Yeah but you're an ex-pat there. As North Americans, we really have no frame of reference to understand what the Korean War meant to the Korean peoples, a disconnect that's been reinforced by our avoidance of even our own military participation in the original conflict. Most people probably don't even recognize that MASH, our only major cultural product about the war, takes place in Korea.
As for pressing the button, it's worth noting that South Korean preparedness is all about preparing for conventional war, and conventional bombardment of Seoul. This would be no "over in minutes" affair; while I say that if the full spectre of such an attack were unleashed it would be devastating to Seoul, it's no nuclear airburst (see civilian survival rates during WW2 strategic bombing). US and SK fighters could ultimately be expected to gain air superiority and work along with counterforce bombardment to suppress the NK artillery batteries, but the initial hours or days of such a full-on conflict would be a disaster for Seoul as an urban system and social unit -- thus the drills. It would also ultimately be a disaster for the North, just as the first war was, which is why it hasn't happened despite decades of DPRK numerical superiority.
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Air
Location: Canada
| | Re: Old war relics dot Toronto - Article
<Reply # 28 on 10/16/2007 1:21 PM >
| | | | Posted by kowalski
I'm surprised it had to be pointed out to you that North America does not equal the Korean peninsula.
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Yes, but didn't you love doing it, no?
As usual you missed my point being a smart ass. Perhaps you should come to my class one day and correct the professor. SK is not the only country near a threatening neighbor state, but is the only one I know of that still practices old school air raids. As for saying that "This would be no "over in minutes" affair", I didn't realize that NK was still stuck back in time by 40 years. Seeing as how its so close to the border they could easy launch a missile or two over, I'm gonna agree with langP the air raid sirens are antiquated, but still could be used to signal other impending disasters.
[last edit 10/16/2007 1:22 PM by Air - edited 1 times]
"The extraordinary beauty of things that fail." - Heinrich von Kleist |
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kowalski
| | Re: Old war relics dot Toronto - Article
<Reply # 29 on 10/16/2007 2:20 PM >
| | | | Posted by Air 33
SK is not the only country near a threatening neighbor state, but is the only one I know of that still practices old school air raids.
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"Eye on Taiwan, Shanghai Plans Air Raid Drill" (Reuters, 13 September 2007)
"Wan-An Air Raid Drill to be Held in Central Taiwan Wednesday" (ROC Central News Agency, 16 August 2005)
I'm sure a little more digging would find drills of various magnitudes to be a periodic occurrence on both sides of the Strait.
As for saying that "This would be no "over in minutes" affair", I didn't realize that NK was still stuck back in time by 40 years. Seeing as how its so close to the border they could easy launch a missile or two over, I'm gonna agree with langP the air raid sirens are antiquated, but still could be used to signal other impending disasters.
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Missiles make a scant bit of difference to a conurbation the size of Seoul, unless you mean nuclear warheads in which case you're completely misinformed about the scale and purpose of the (highly questionable) North Korean arsenal. Assuming that North Korea has a handful of functional and missile-capable warheads (a significant assumption, given that their one documented test appears to have been a dud), these are strategic weapons aimed at deterring a third-party (US/Japan, or if things got ugly, China) strike against their country, and/or deterring third-party involvement in a renewed conventional conflict on the peninsula (ie. nuclear blackmail to support a NK offensive across the DMZ).
In fact, the conventionally armed surface-to-surface missiles which North Korea has in spades -- it has been a prolific supplier of SCUDs to various states -- make the air raid drilling even more useful than if it were solely meant to prepare for artillery bombardment. The experience of Tel Aviv during the Persian Gulf War emphasized that SCUDs as a tool of urban bombardment were not much more effective than the V-1 and V-2 rockets Germany employed against English cities during the Second World War. The English used sirens and drilling then too, but I guess that was a waste of time as well.
The North Koreans would never use a nuke against a target in the South, but they would very likely subject Seoul to heavy conventional bombardment in the event of a new ground war. And no, that wouldn't be an over in minutes affair, yes, drilling for such an event has its uses for reducing loss of life in the civilian population, and yes, the DPRK *is* still stuck back in time by 40 years.
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MikeBeauchamp
| |  | Re: Old war relics dot Toronto - Article
<Reply # 30 on 10/19/2007 7:22 AM >
| | | | There used to be an air raid siren in a park near here, but I never thought anything of it. Then when I got older and actually realized what it was, and figured it would be neat to photograph.. it was gone.
I did spot one in a small town in Nova Scotia though
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Mutt
Moderator
Location: Bunbury, Western Australia
Support your local Funeral Director ----- Drop Dead!
| | | Re: Old war relics dot Toronto - Article
<Reply # 31 on 10/19/2007 12:22 PM >
| | | | That would make a great alarm clock.
"must have slept through my alarm"
Aint gonna happen
[last edit 10/19/2007 12:26 PM by Mutt - edited 1 times]
All men are cremated equal. |
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Jannx
Location: on Location
Gender: Male
stay low
| | Re: Old war relics dot Toronto - Article
<Reply # 32 on 10/22/2007 4:08 PM >
| | | | I was in Fall River MA last year w a pal. They still have 'air raid' sirens and test them regularly. Glad I don't live near one!
ue.. it ain't what it usta be... |
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admiralhonshu
Necromancy Plague Crusader
| | Re: Old war relics dot Toronto - Article
<Reply # 33 on 2/21/2008 6:14 PM >
| | | | I had one at my old public school. The name was fitting though. Corvette P.S. It had the air raid siren. Since my school didnt have an out door bell to signal the end or beginning of lunch and recess. They used the air raid siren instead. Sadly they took it down.
Sexual Necromancer |
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