RailGuy88 This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
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How-To: Tower Climbing Industry < on 1/28/2010 7:16 AM >
The following is recommended by RailGuy88 only as a guide of the type of equipment to purchase by use of professional tower climbers in the Tower Climbing Industry. RailGuy88 is not responsible for any failures of the equipment, its business owners, or the use of any such equipment purchased by its end-users. Equipment: TES Inc: Harnesses, Rope, Bags, Rigging Equipment, Accessories
RailGuy88 This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
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Re: How-To: Tower Climbing Industry <Reply # 1 on 1/28/2010 7:25 AM >
Recommended Tower Equipment: - Full body harness (seat, 4 waist D-rings, front D-ring, and back D-ring) - Adjusting lanyard - Shock absorber lanyard - 'Y' shock absorber lanyard (hooks onto back D-ring) - Rope grab - Cable grab - Fisk descender - Tool bag - Hard hat (half or full brim) - Electrical work gloves - Headlamp (night work) - Tagline rope - Steel-toed work boots - Basic Hand Tools (wrench, grips, multi-screwdriver, etc)
Recommended Certs & Licenses: - ComTrain, LLC: Tower Safety & Rescue Certification - Andrew Institute: Connector Certification - Andrew Institute: Terrestrial Microwave Certification - Anritsu Corp: RF & Microwave Analysis - Anritsu Corp: RF & Microwave Interference - Anritsu Corp: SiteMaster - Red Cross: First Aid/AED/CPR Going where others can't...
RailGuy88 This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
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Re: How-To: Tower Climbing Industry <Reply # 2 on 1/28/2010 7:29 AM >
How to break into this industry:
Depends on what the job entails, but I've read on wirelessestimator.com that an avg job can pay anywhere from $45/hr (basic) to a good $300/hr (experienced).
Most all companies (with very few exceptions) require you to be certified through ComTrain, have proper equipment that meets/exceeds OSHA/ANSI requirements, and many prefer you to also have other certs such as Andrew, Anritsu, and others.
One thing that you might want to consider is the option of traveling from job to job across the country, and be available on weekends and holidays. Must be drug-free, and must be tied down 100% of the time.
It's also rated as the deadliest job in the nation; mostly due to morons not tying off 100% of the time, and other using alcohol and drugs while on the job, which gives us clean guys (and gals) a bad rap. Going where others can't...
Re: How-To: Tower Climbing Industry <Reply # 3 on 1/28/2010 1:05 PM >
Last week or so I was driving down the interstate and saw some guys working on an electrical tower like this which I could only assume was live:
There were 3 guys up there plus a helicopter hovering immediately above like 20-30 feet away from the workers. The copter had a few lines hanging down from it and one/some of the lines had a ladder hanging down in a horizontal position so the guys could walk on it. Somehow they were able to get the copter stable enough to get the lines and ladder from the copter down in between the wires. As I was driving by it appeared as they had one end of the ladder resting on the tower while the other end was being suspended by the helicopter and a guy was just starting to walk out into it.
Howly shit that much be balls to the wall.
How much were those guys making per hour? [last edit 1/28/2010 6:08 PM by trent - edited 1 times] He who rules the underground, rules the city above.
Location: Cincinnati, OH and/or Queens, NY Gender: Male
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Re: How-To: Tower Climbing Industry <Reply # 4 on 1/28/2010 5:43 PM >
Posted by trent Last week or so I was driving down the interstate and saw some guys working on an electrical tower like this which I could only assume was live: http://www.ibew125...es/PGE%20Tower.jpg
There were 3 guys up there plus a helicopter hovering immediately above like 20-30 feet away from the workers. The copter had a few lines hanging down from it and one/some of the lines had a ladder hanging down in a horizontal position so the guys could walk on it. Somehow they were able to get the copter stable enough to get the lines and ladder from the copter down in between the wires. As I was driving by it appeared as they had one end of the ladder resting on the tower while the other end was being suspended by the helicopter and a guy was just starting to walk out into it.
That's not the exact video I saw, but it was something on Discovery Channel, not Dirty Jobs, but that copy-cat show with the more annoying guy. They use the helicopter because it's not grounded. It's crazy. Cincinnati UE Photos: http://zfein.com/photography
Re: How-To: Tower Climbing Industry <Reply # 6 on 4/17/2010 2:46 PM >
Posted by HI-LITE Whats the best method to climb a tower/ladder with a safety line? so the both of you are always tied in as you climb?
If you have two people I'm thinking of some kind leapfrog climing/clipping in method.
You have money? The best method would involve full-on industry fall protection. Talking at least $100-300 in gear per person, depending on your needs and desire for comfortable harness. Full tower harness + Shock-Absorbing Lanyards And I'd consider a cable grab too if you're gonna be doin' it often.
No money?
The cheapest way I can think to do this is:
Rock climbing harness = 2x(sling + carabiner)
I've moved away from rope lanyards
due to slings being lighter-weight and saving packspace. [last edit 4/17/2010 2:50 PM by \/adder - edited 2 times] "No risk, no reward, no fun." "Go all the way or walk away" escensi omnis...
Re: How-To: Tower Climbing Industry <Reply # 7 on 4/18/2010 1:27 AM >
Yikes, have you taken a fall on that sling yet? It may very well hurt, A LOT. Slings don't stretch at all, so pretty monstrous forces can be transmitted to your body. Possibly even enough to break the sling. Dead serious. Read page 86 onwards of this: http://www.hse.gov.../2001/crr01364.pdf
Don't mean to be picky, to be honest I've used exactly that setup in the past, but it's really not ideal and I wouldn't use it again. I'm a bit wary of larks-footing slings like that as well - if the knot isn't tight and you fall, a lot of friction can be generated very quickly as it tightens. Plus it's weaker than a crab. Dynamic rope tied with barrel knots! Big and heavy but saves your ass!
I like the look of that big crab though, what is it? Is it big enough to get around scaff bars? Petzl MGOs are great but so frickin' huuuuge and clanky.
HI-LITE: if there are two of you and you don't have cable grabs (or whatever fall arrest system may be on the tower), you can climb it in normal lead/second style, using slings to create anchors as you lead. To be honest, if you don't know what I mean, you shouldn't be doing it!
Re: How-To: Tower Climbing Industry <Reply # 8 on 4/18/2010 2:01 AM >
I gave an example of the cheapest possible setup, not the most ideal setup. Better than nothing, right?
The real question is: Where exactly do you think you would fall?
Obviously you're tying into the ladder, right?
Even if you fall, you are falling a total distance of four feet from your tie in to anchor.
If it's a long lines then there will be landings and you can loop the lanyard around the railing. The risk of going over the railing is there, but it's lessened by using common sense. Even still you are only going to drop four feet.
A newer tower will incorporate very small rest areas where the lattice work gets wider around the ladder but is no different tie in wise than the rest of the ladder.
A cell tower really is just a big ladder so: If you slip and somehow fall straight down, your hands should catch you before the sling does.
If you fall foreward you're not going anywhere.
If you fall to the side, same deal as going down.
Backwards is the largest risk. Scenario 1: You're hands grab a ungrounded wire, sending a non-fatal shock into your body but causing you're hands to release the ladder. You fall backwards an arms length as the lanyard extends but the total time of fall is lengthened by the fact your feet are still on the ladder which delays the impact.
Scenario 2: Somehow you manage to slip with both feet and lose both hands at the same time, immediately falling backwards. The sling catches you and spins you around back towards the ladder. Or the sling breaks from the impact of four feet and you fall to your death.
Or you UE the fuck outta 10 towers in one night only to be hit walking back to your vehicle by a drunk driver.
I no longer think in terms of risk vs reward. I think in terms of effort vs reward. Is this worth the effort. Risk is too unpredictable and is ultimately like everything else in life has the same 50/50 odds: either it happens, or it doesn't. You can climb every bridge tower and crane in a city evading security and running from cops and still get away and somehow get busted whilst exploring the easiest most whored out abandonment in town. The end results of taking a risk boil down to more luck than anything. [last edit 4/18/2010 2:09 AM by \/adder - edited 1 times] "No risk, no reward, no fun." "Go all the way or walk away" escensi omnis...
Re: How-To: Tower Climbing Industry <Reply # 10 on 4/20/2010 12:59 AM >
assuming there is no built in fall arrest system available, this is my plan using dynamic rope and anchoring into the ladder itself. its sort of like lead climbing.
Blue person climbs ladder and clips themselves in and clips in rope for red person who climbs up to the blue person.
The red person now clips into ladder themselves and clips the blue person's rope in and the blue person climbs up. and this continues
-Both are always anchored to the ladder -Max fall force of 2 And when you finally disappear, We'll just say you were never here.
assuming there is no built in fall arrest system available, this is my plan using dynamic rope and anchoring into the ladder itself. its sort of like lead climbing.
Blue person climbs ladder and clips themselves in and clips in rope for red person who climbs up to the blue person.
The red person now clips into ladder themselves and clips the blue person's rope in and the blue person climbs up. and this continues
-Both are always anchored to the ladder -Max fall force of 2
Why not just have each person clip onto the ladder rungs "lobster claw", that way your maximum fall is approximately the height of one rung and each person is attached to the tower separately
Re: How-To: Tower Climbing Industry <Reply # 12 on 4/20/2010 1:49 AM >
Posted by bfinan0
Why not just have each person clip onto the ladder rungs "lobster claw"?
Speed. That method takes a long, long time. Even using one lanyard and a cable grab (because you have to move the cable grab around the cable stays) it takes a while. Depending on length of rope (totally go with like 30' here) you only have to anchor 10-20 times for a good size tower.
I like this method, just get some damn good anchors. [last edit 4/20/2010 1:53 AM by \/adder - edited 1 times] "No risk, no reward, no fun." "Go all the way or walk away" escensi omnis...
Re: How-To: Tower Climbing Industry <Reply # 13 on 4/20/2010 2:38 AM >
Posted by TheVicariousVadder
Speed. That method takes a long, long time. Even using one lanyard and a cable grab (because you have to move the cable grab around the cable stays) it takes a while. Depending on length of rope (totally go with like 30' here) you only have to anchor 10-20 times for a good size tower.
I like this method, just get some damn good anchors.
I guess that's a valid reason; I looked at it from my point of view, knowing that I'd probably climb exactly one tower ever because there's only one I'm really interested. I would imagine methods would be quite different if planning on climbing multiple towers in your career, as you certainly have.
Re: How-To: Tower Climbing Industry <Reply # 14 on 4/20/2010 4:15 AM >
It's only really faster with two people. Normally we don't use full on fall protection when we go in groups, because it slows the entire groups movement. But I like the lead climbing method, may have to give that a shot one of these particularly windy days.
Solo climbing, the cable grab (+ lanyard) is the most efficient method.
A stainless steel cable (misidentified by me in the past as a tension wire) runs up most newer towers. It is attached at the top and at the bottom of the ladder, and every 20' or so there are these struts that wrap around the cable and keep it in place aka "cable staysguides" I think the professional term is for them. There are two types of cable guide: The first type is shaped like this and is essentially a metal tube attached to a strut attached to the cable system. the cable cannot be removed from the strut. "." being the cable (---) ( . ) (___)
the second type is like this
( ---) ( ./ ) (_/_ )
it's a metal tube with a cut on the interior side allowing the cable to be temporarily removed from the inside of the guide.
or other, I've encountered both the above types... watch video below.
The difference between these two systems is that you don't have to detach your cable grab from the tower in the second system because you can pull the cable out of the guide unlike the first system which you have to detach your cable grab to get around the guide. At which point having the lanyard is adds to that bit of extra assurance. [last edit 4/20/2010 4:29 AM by \/adder - edited 3 times] "No risk, no reward, no fun." "Go all the way or walk away" escensi omnis...
Re: How-To: Tower Climbing Industry <Reply # 15 on 4/20/2010 4:26 AM >
This video explains it much better.
I have a dual use 5/16" \ 3/8" cable grab ... ebay: $71.
Here's the instruction manual for the above system: http://pksafety.co...lad_saf_manual.pdf [last edit 4/20/2010 4:33 AM by \/adder - edited 1 times] "No risk, no reward, no fun." "Go all the way or walk away" escensi omnis...
If you spot a terrorist arrow, pin it to the wall with your shoulder.
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Re: How-To: Tower Climbing Industry <Reply # 17 on 4/27/2010 2:30 AM >
On topic: I hate my job (I have to fill out a dozen forms to modify a few lines of code, and don't do anything actually productive). If I wanted to start climbing for a living (I understand it's gonna be cold, and rainy, and it's not nearly as sexy as it should be, but I really hate spending at least 5x as much work on the bureaucracy as the actual work) what's the first step?
I guess I have two real questions: I have a EE degree, could I just find a cell company and ask to work for them, or do I have to get my own gear/training and freelance it?
Do any companies offer salaried positions / or a guarantee of at least so many hours per month? "That's just my opinion. I would, however, advocate for explosive breaching, since speed and looking cool are both concerns in my job."-Wilkinshire
RailGuy88 This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
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Re: How-To: Tower Climbing Industry <Reply # 18 on 5/7/2010 3:05 AM >
Posted by TheVicariousVadder This video explains it much better.
...
I have a dual use 5/16" \ 3/8" cable grab ... ebay: $71.
One thing that I've tested on every tower I've worked on is that it's not wise to attach the cable grab to your chest. Despite what the video says, should you loose grip and fall, as the grab catches the cable, it'll smack you and your face right into the ladder. This is due to the center of gravity and the location of your attachment. Your legs become free and dangle below. May cause you to become unconscience or have facial damage (such as your teeth, head injury, etc).
If you connect the grab to your waist or hip D-rings via a spreader attachment ($25 more), it dissapates the movement while you fall and allow your legs to hit the ladder first, thus allowing you to remain conscience during this fall. Your legs may become scrapped or bruised, but you'll still be alert and no harm has come to your face. This also allows you to either continue up or down, or wait for a rescue person rather than hang there helplessly.
Going where others can't...
RailGuy88 This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
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Re: How-To: Tower Climbing Industry <Reply # 19 on 5/7/2010 3:23 AM >
Posted by MindHacker I guess I have two real questions: I have a EE degree, could I just find a cell company and ask to work for them, or do I have to get my own gear/training and freelance it?
Do any companies offer salaried positions / or a guarantee of at least so many hours per month?
Question 1: Yes, you could, but most companies will still require you to go through training, and few prefer you to have your own equipment. It's much better to use your own that someone elses that you've never seen before or know the history about.
Question 2: Depends on who you work for. Most companies offer full-time positions, but you'll earn more $$ per hour if you work freelance (as I do) vs a fixed paid income with a company.
Either way, I highly recommend buying the proper equipment needed, take you 2-day certification course, and that way you'll be ready to start at any job regardless of what they require.
The 2-day course (ie: ComTrain's TS&R 2-day course) is very informational. The first day is all about classroom training and discussions. They cover everything from OSHA to ANSI to rope to harness, and so much more. It's easy to follow and the final test is nothing to fear. Day two takes you on a local active tower, where you'll learn to ascend and descend using rope techniques, lanyards, cable grabs, and also how to rescue and be rescued on a tower.
The certification lasts a lifetime and is def worth the cost of the class. They also have extended classes you can take to learn more about rescuing and how to use advanced techniques on the jobsite.
But I cannot stress enough how important it is to buy the proper equipment to use.Do not (please do not) use those cheap-o rock climbing harnesses or the industrial half-ass harness that you see on eBay. You need a full-body harness with at least one back D-ring, one chest D-ring, two hip D-rings, and it's very very rewarding to buy one with a built-in seat. Those seats come in handy when sitting on the towers for long periods bolting or hanging equipment.
My harness cost me $250 new, but found a deal online for $195. It's made by DBI/SALA, and came with the "Y" bungie lanyards. These are nice as you can hook the single end to your back D-ring and climb up towers in a monkey-style.
I also have three separate bungie lanyards, two adjustable lanyards (3' to 6'), two auto-close/auto-lock carabiners, one spreader (to use with your hip D-rings), two beam lanyards (used around beams larger than your hooks to secure to), and one rope grab and cable grab.
Spent over $600-800 total for the above equipment, plus $895 for the class. Well worth it. -- Figure this: I'd rather spend under $1k for equipment than over $10k for medical/hospital should I fall. Good luck guys and stay safe out there! Going where others can't...
