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 DrDark
 
Location: Central NJ ... Armpit of the nation
Gender: Male
 |  | Radioactive leave-behinds
< on 2/17/2010 11:05 PM >
|  | | | Here is a presentation showing radioactive sources left behind at what sure looks like your typical industrial abandonment.
http://www.ttemide...80/02_stranded.pdf
How many CAUTION RADIATION signs have you come across?
I always carry a cheap ($40) pocket sized radiation detector with me when I'm exploring.
No Sign No Crime |
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Therrin
   
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: North of Chicago, IL
Gender: Male
*Therrin puts on the penguin-suit
| |  | Re: Radioactive leave-behinds
<Reply # 1 on 2/17/2010 11:52 PM >
| | | | $40 radiation detector? Srsly?
Wait, do you mean a dosimeter, or a geiger counter?
A dosimeter isn't really so much a "detector" though it can serve passively in that function as well. Dosimeters measure the amount of rads/roentgens/rems exposed to the dosimeter (and therefore, you) over a given amount of time, or EXPOSURE DOSE.
A geiger counter actually detects levels of active radiation (depending on what it's calibrated and set for; alpha/beta/gamma). In other words, it measures EXPOSURE RATE.
A little about radiation, for those who aren't familiar with it.
Alpha particles are actually electrically charged and are the least penetrating form of radiation. They travel roughly 4 to 7 inches in air, and a piece of paper or the single outter layer of dead skin will stop them. Like Beta particles though, if inhaled or ingested they can then cause more serious problems
Beta particles are also electrically charged but travel faster and further than alpha particles. They travel from a few millimeters up to about 10 yards in open air (depending on the isotope) and can penetrate up to several millimeters through human tissue.
The actual particle is only a slight external radioactive hazard. Prolonged exposure can cause skin burns, and is more hazardous externally when dealing with the eye's lens. Internally however, is where the wreak the most damage. When inhaled or ingested they can cause serious internal damage.
This is because, again, they are relatively weak at penetrating skin. But once inside they can affect whatever internal organs they travel past.
(This is where respirators/dust masks/gas mask use would come in usefull, to disallow inhaling/ingesting the particles)
Gamma rays are a form of electromagnetic radiation, similar to x-rays. They can penetrate all types of materials and can travel up to a mile in open air.
Because of this, all bodily organs and tissues can be damaged from a source found outside of the body. ONLY a dense shielding material provides protection from this type of radiation.
The common misunderstanding with these isotopes is that once you've been exposed to the radiation itself, that it's now inside you. Only if the actual particles are physically ON or IN your body will you be carrying them around with you. Think of it like dust. If you wash dust off your body, and don't inhale any, you LEAVE it where it falls.
The DIFFERENCE between a dosimeter and a geiger counter (or survey meter):
If you had a survey meter in one hand and a dosimeter in the other and walked into an area of measurable radiation and your survey meter said you were now standing in a 30 R/hr radiation field, and you stayed there for two hours, then your dosimeter at the end of those two hours would be indicating 60 R. The meter measured the exposure rate or intensity of the radiation there and the dosimeter accumulated the total amount of radiation you had been exposed to for having been there those two hours. (If you had left right after the first half-hour, then your dosimeter would have been reading only 15 R.)
Using creative dosimetry calculations, you *can* use a dosimeter then, to record the rate as well, but only after the fact, not during the actual exposure.
So I'm guessing you're referring to a dosimeter in your post there, not an acutal survey meter. To recap, a dosimeter only tells you how much you were exposed to after the fact. So if you're experiencing very harmfull rates of radiation then you're basically F*cked if you're relying on a dosimeter to tell you whether a location is safe or not.
There are both low-level and high-level survey meters (geiger counters) as well as low-level and high-level dosimeters.
The absolutel cheapest, tested, functional GEIGER COUNTER is called NUKalert, and sells for about $160. It is the absolute least in radiological monitoring that you should ever carry when you think you may be exposed to radioactivity for any reason. (**EDIT** It is also only the size of a thick keychain, so you dont have to worry about walking around with a bunch of clunky equipment. And if you're caught there's a VERY good chance noone would realize you even have it. Unless of course its clicking...But then you have other issues to deal with. NUKalert has about a 10 year battery life, and is always "on", no on/off switch)
Using dosimetry calculations you can rate/dose your own exposure using the survey meter alone.
The two units (survey meter & dosimeter) truly work best when used together though.
Even a civil surplus dosimeter which is calibrated (that really matters) is going to cost at least $60 - $80, besides the charger you need for charging and resetting the calibration which also costs around $80 - $140.
UNLESS YOU UNDERSTAND THE WAY RADIATION WORKS, YOU UNDERSTAND DOSIMETRY CALCULATIONS AND HAVE THE PROPPER EQUIPMENT AND PROTECTIVE APPAREL AND YOU'RE WILLING TO LITERALLY TAKE YOUR LIFE AND YOUR GENE POOL INTO YOUR OWN HANDS....
STAY AWAY FROM ANY PLACE WHICH HAS RADIATION WARNINGS WHICH YOU EVEN THINK MAY BE LEGITIMATE.
[last edit 2/17/2010 11:56 PM by Therrin - edited 1 times]
Give a person a match and they'll be warm for a minute, but light them on fire and they'll be warm for the rest of their life. =) |
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Tupsumato
  
Location: Finland
Gender: Male
How close can you go?
| | Re: Radioactive leave-behinds
<Reply # 2 on 2/18/2010 12:01 AM >
| | | | I recall seeing a handful of radiation hazard signs denoting radiation sources inside some of the machinery left behind. The X-ray spectrometer we stumbled across was the most obvious, but there was some industrial machinery as well.
All information and details given in good faith but not guaranteed! |
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DrDark
Location: Central NJ ... Armpit of the nation
Gender: Male
| | Re: Radioactive leave-behinds
<Reply # 3 on 2/18/2010 12:09 AM >
| | | | I posted this as a warning to fellow explorers. BEWARE!
I use a Russian made pocket Geiger Mueller tube detector/dosimeter.
It clicks and flashes a light when exposed to any beta or gamma radiation above background.
Not sophisticated by any means but as "right now" warning device its perfect.
Its from Ebay and cost me $ 38.00. Cheap life insurance that runs on AA batteries.
[last edit 2/18/2010 12:12 AM by DrDark - edited 1 times]
No Sign No Crime |
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Therrin
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: North of Chicago, IL
Gender: Male
*Therrin puts on the penguin-suit
| | | Re: Radioactive leave-behinds
<Reply # 4 on 2/18/2010 12:20 AM >
| | | | LOL, you do realize that unless it's been calibrated recently it's almost completely useless right? =P
You can pick up survey meters/dosimeters all over the place (ebay) for dirt cheap. The only problem is that without up-to-date calibrations the readings they give are absolutely bogus. They can go from not showing harmfull exposure at all, to showing that the stuff in your smoke alarm is giving off life-threatening levels.
Check out this place. One of the best resources I found during my research on this topic. I ended up getting my equipment from them, I like their quality and attention to detail.
http://www.ki4u.com/products1.php
Give a person a match and they'll be warm for a minute, but light them on fire and they'll be warm for the rest of their life. =) |
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DrDark
Location: Central NJ ... Armpit of the nation
Gender: Male
| | Re: Radioactive leave-behinds
<Reply # 5 on 2/18/2010 1:14 AM >
| | | | Therrin, I defer to your obviously greater knowledge.
To my friends, please watch out. The signs were placed there for a reason. You cant smell, taste or see radiation. That cool piece of scrap might just be radioactive.
PS> I use a radioactive check source (old radium watch) to verify the detectors proper operation prior to use.
[last edit 2/18/2010 1:37 AM by DrDark - edited 1 times]
No Sign No Crime |
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\/adder
  
Location: DunkarooLand
Gender: Male
I'm the worst of the best but I'm in this race.
| |  | Re: Radioactive leave-behinds
<Reply # 6 on 2/18/2010 2:59 AM >
| | | | I've found rad tags but no material.
[last edit 2/18/2010 3:00 AM by \/adder - edited 1 times]
"No risk, no reward, no fun."
"Go all the way or walk away"
escensi omnis... |
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MindHacker
Location: Suburbs of DC
Gender: Male
If you spot a terrorist arrow, pin it to the wall with your shoulder.
| | Re: Radioactive leave-behinds
<Reply # 7 on 2/19/2010 4:21 AM >
| | | | I found out that EPA was halting demo work due to radioactive leftovers (paper-thickness-measurers)... but only after exploring the place. No signs, warnings, nothing. I guess the moral is to do your homework.
"That's just my opinion. I would, however, advocate for explosive breaching, since speed and looking cool are both concerns in my job."-Wilkinshire |
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\/adder
Location: DunkarooLand
Gender: Male
I'm the worst of the best but I'm in this race.
| | | Re: Radioactive leave-behinds
<Reply # 8 on 2/19/2010 4:45 AM >
| | | | I wonder about this place:
http://www.uer.ca/...d=76931&currpage=1
I probably face worse radiation climbing cell towers than I did here, though that tumor third testicle really comes in handy sometimes.
"No risk, no reward, no fun."
"Go all the way or walk away"
escensi omnis... |
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leatherman
Location: Texas
Gender: Male
| | Re: Radioactive leave-behinds
<Reply # 9 on 2/25/2010 1:00 AM >
| | | | If i get too much radiation my kid will be
1. an xmen like wolverine
2. the toxic avenger
3. melted like that bad guy from Robocop that got squished by a helicopter on E.R.
4. Dr. Manhattan
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DrDark
Location: Central NJ ... Armpit of the nation
Gender: Male
| | Re: Radioactive leave-behinds
<Reply # 11 on 2/28/2010 9:29 PM >
| | | | Here is a link (Ebay) to the unit I mentioned above.
http://cgi.ebay.co...ash=item4839892f31
No Sign No Crime |
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danielb
| | Re: Radioactive leave-behinds
<Reply # 12 on 5/8/2010 6:26 PM >
| | | | The common "CAUTION X-RAY" often seen in hospitals is no big deal. X-RAY equipment is harmless when not powered on.
Signs that use the words RADIATION or RADIOACTIVE are a bit more disconcerting. Those signs are typically used for sealed sources, which can potentially be disturbed by scrappers.
SEALED SOURCES:
http://www.iaea.or...s/flyer_public.pdf
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NHUrbex
Location: NH, USA
Gender: Male
You can always find me chilling on a rooftop.. Ironically, I'm not a fan of heights. Just views...
| | Re: Radioactive leave-behinds
<Reply # 13 on 7/13/2010 6:24 PM >
| | | | I have a NUKalert. It's a must have for industrial/high-tech UE explorations. $160 dollars isn't bad when you consider what's at stake. Also, it looks awesome on my keychain!
Behind every mistake, there is a lesson.
I'm just not that great at learning them! |
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The Anti-Paradigm
Location: -HTX-
Gender: Male
Against the Flow
| | | Re: Radioactive leave-behinds
<Reply # 14 on 7/15/2010 11:14 PM >
| | | | I work as a Radiographer in a Hospital, and had to learn a lot about Radiation biology, and what Therrin said is absolutely true.
Alpha Particles are absolutely harmless unless you ingest or inhale them. (Your house smoke detectors emit alpha radiation! They contain Americium)
Beta particles are worse, and a lot more damaging than Alpha.
X-rays are often not very serious, because they have a Low LET or "linear energy transfer", Meaning that depending on the energy they will pass all the way through you without interacting.
GAMMA=RUN AWAY
BUT, THAT BEING SAID, ANY GIVEN RADIATION DOSE CAN HAVE LONG TERM SOMATIC EFFECTS!
That means if you are exposed to it now, it could have a latent or "dormant" period of ten years, then you could develop cancer. It is a totally random chance.
So If something gives you any detection of radiation, even if it isn't calibrated to give you an accurate exposure measurement, you should listen to it and get out. Something is better than going blind.
Once again that being said.... bring your lead underwear and thyroid shield! Just kidding.
[last edit 7/15/2010 11:16 PM by The Anti-Paradigm - edited 1 times]
Visit my photography and
UE Photo Journal:
www.antiparadigmproductions.com |
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The Anti-Paradigm
Location: -HTX-
Gender: Male
Against the Flow
| | | Re: Radioactive leave-behinds
<Reply # 15 on 7/15/2010 11:18 PM >
| | | | By the way, those Radiation Protection pills don't work. You would have to Overdose on those pills to be safe from radiation, but then your thyroid would die....
Visit my photography and
UE Photo Journal:
www.antiparadigmproductions.com |
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NHUrbex
Location: NH, USA
Gender: Male
You can always find me chilling on a rooftop.. Ironically, I'm not a fan of heights. Just views...
| | Re: Radioactive leave-behinds
<Reply # 16 on 7/26/2010 11:54 PM >
| | | | Posted by AntiParadigmProductions
Alpha Particles are absolutely harmless unless you ingest or inhale them. (Your house smoke detectors emit alpha radiation! They contain Americium)
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Aww.... No more eating smoke alarms for snacks... 
Behind every mistake, there is a lesson.
I'm just not that great at learning them! |
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The Anti-Paradigm
Location: -HTX-
Gender: Male
Against the Flow
| | | Re: Radioactive leave-behinds
<Reply # 17 on 7/28/2010 11:09 AM >
| | | | No joke, I had one in my house that was beeping like crazy so I pulled it down and set it on my coffee table until I could find a battery for it, and my dog got a hold of it while it was there and chewed it up, but thankfully didn't ruin it!
Six centimeters more and he would have had esophageal cancer!
Visit my photography and
UE Photo Journal:
www.antiparadigmproductions.com |
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