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2024-05-16 03:50:46
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 djdeadmind
 
Location: Budapest Town
Gender: Male
NO LONGER deprived of photography
 |  |  | Re: High voltage transmission towers?!
<Reply # 20 on 5/9/2010 3:30 AM >
|  | | | Posted by TheVicariousVadder
You will probably die. Don't fight Darwin. |
Hahaha... this is going into my sig if you don't mind 
They turn them off or power them down to work on them IF they climb them, often times they bring in a helicopter to do the work and stay the fuck off them.
Even after that they can have induced currents still inside them. |
I've seen them get (re-)painted several times during my childhood, the workers just climbed right up with some safety equipment and painted even the arms going out to the side...
Hmmmm...
Maybe I've found my first job
| There are several experienced climbers who have climbed their fair share of (what many would call stupid) shit advising against it. |
Fair enough. I was just trying to find out what the definite safe distance (from each line) was, to be able to assess the risk myself. I think I might try to find out how to calculate it myself, though I thank you all who replied as even if I find it to be humanly possible I will definitely put it off until my next urge for suicide kicks in. (my first one was actually that 20kV line not 200 meters from this that I mentioned earlier, when I was 8 years old. my parents stopped me then, but my goal now is just taking pictures)
If you are truly interested in how one can safely climb this why don't you give your local electric company a call and inquire about it. Tell them you are doing a college or high-school report on electrical safety.
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I've never done anything as close to "asking for permission" as that, but I might as well do that, thank you for the idea. In either case, until that heavenly day when I finally get a camera (and HOPEFULLY my first DSLR), this "project" will remain in research stage.
addicted to danger / addicted to music / addicted to photography
(my sets: the intro - the latest) First advice I got on UER: "No. You will probably die. Don't fight Darwin." - TheVicariousVadder |
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digital_me
    
Location: Colorado
Gender: Male
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro
| | | Re: High voltage transmission towers?!
<Reply # 21 on 5/9/2010 3:48 AM >
| | | | Posted by djdeadmind
I stated in my original post that these only carry 120 kV. There's even a sign on each one stating so (and the name of the substations they connect). I know that is still enough to arc a significant distance but what I'm trying to find out is how big is that distance.
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It doesn't arc from one side to the other because they are at the same potential. What you are asking is something that cannot be trivially stated. The breakdown voltage of air is a function of many variables, including humidity; further it's a statistical thing, one cannot say that at voltage x, there will be electrical breakdown.
Posted by djdeadmind
I knew from the start that I'm dealing with an extremely high risk here, but they must have been built for quite a large margin of error to stop the power from arcing through from the line at one side to the one at the other even in a thick fog. Common sense tells me on a dry summer day that margin of error should easily allow a human-sized object to pass through the center between the lines. Except I know my common sense is rather... um... let's say, 'unique'... which is why I wanted to ask you guys
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No, they aren't built for a margin of error like that. Because there isn't one since both lines are at exactly the same potential.
Let me put it in simple terms, two possible scenarios:
1) The tower is electrified, at high voltage. When you jump on to the tower, you will act as an uncharged capacitor. The high voltage will very efficiently charge you, causing a current to flow through you which will kill you.
2) The lines are insulated from the tower. You climb up. The current arcs and kills you.
You asked our opinion. Numerous people who have experience climbing towers (defunct microwave transmission and cell towers, NOT powerlines) are telling you that this is a terrible idea. Reason, and indeed, common sense suggests you listen to them.
You clearly want to climb something tall. Which is awesome, climbing tall things is all sorts of fun. I suggest you read the link Aurelie posted, it's a very thorough thread which discusses things which you can climb without worrying about the fact that the thing which you are climbing will kill you without doubt.
There is such a thing as an acceptable level of risk. For instance, choosing to not use a cable grab when climbing a 40m defunct microwave transmission tower and only clipping in to the ladder to rest. This is acceptable for some people because they trust their upper body strength and know they can handle themselves on a ladder. Trying to climb a high voltage power transmission tower does not in any way fall under acceptable risk. Everything is out of your control, and in the hands of basic E&M.
Again, I encourage you to scope out other things to climb. You'll find there are many tall things which you can climb with an acceptable level of risk.
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jeepdave
  
Location: Anderson, SC
Gender: Male
It's also a gun.
| | Re: High voltage transmission towers?!
<Reply # 22 on 5/9/2010 4:05 AM >
|  | | | I'm redneck but this has "Hey yall, watch this" written all over it.
Ezekiel 25:17 |
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djdeadmind
Location: Budapest Town
Gender: Male
NO LONGER deprived of photography
| | | Re: High voltage transmission towers?!
<Reply # 23 on 5/9/2010 5:54 AM >
| | | | Posted by digital_me
It doesn't arc from one side to the other because they are at the same potential. What you are asking is something that cannot be trivially stated. The breakdown voltage of air is a function of many variables, including humidity; further it's a statistical thing, one cannot say that at voltage x, there will be electrical breakdown. |
I see! I didn't know that, I thought all the lines carried a different potential, or maybe just a different phase (except the very top one which is just grounded to the tower).
But then, why doesn't it arc to the tower? It's firmly grounded, and the distance from the wires to the arms is far shorter than the closest I'd ever get to them.
| You clearly want to climb something tall. Which is awesome, climbing tall things is all sorts of fun. I suggest you read the link Aurelie posted, it's a very thorough thread which discusses things which you can climb without worrying about the fact that the thing which you are climbing will kill you without doubt. |
Yes, I know - I have read the entirety of that thread long before I ever posted on UER.
The reason I wanted to top these pylons in particular so much was that they are the tallest structures anywhere around (they're a 5min walk from our home) and the only other way I could've accessed the view from the top would be from a helicopter.
Trying to climb a high voltage power transmission tower does not in any way fall under acceptable risk. Everything is out of your control, and in the hands of basic E&M.
Again, I encourage you to scope out other things to climb. You'll find there are many tall things which you can climb with an acceptable level of risk.
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Very good points, thank you.  Yes, I know very well that once I get close to the wires I would no longer be in any sort of control. However my reasoning was that it was a force of physics (well, electromagnetics) that was in control, and thus the risks should be predictable, and therefore a way of minimizing them could be found.
But as all of you have kindly pointed out, I was wrong, so no matter how much I think my theory about going up the inside would work, I will put it off until the next time I feel like dying. (But if I survive, and manage to take some good photos from the top, then mother nature owes me a beer! )
Posted by jeepdave
I'm redneck but this has "Hey yall, watch this" written all over it.
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I'm rather stupid when it comes to the risks I take, but not when it comes to the reasons I take them for.
[last edit 5/9/2010 6:01 AM by djdeadmind - edited 4 times]
addicted to danger / addicted to music / addicted to photography
(my sets: the intro - the latest) First advice I got on UER: "No. You will probably die. Don't fight Darwin." - TheVicariousVadder |
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MindHacker
 
Location: Suburbs of DC
Gender: Male
If you spot a terrorist arrow, pin it to the wall with your shoulder.
| | Re: High voltage transmission towers?!
<Reply # 24 on 5/10/2010 1:27 AM >
| | | | Posted by TheVicariousVadder
Even after that they can have induced currents still inside them.
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That's a concern for radiating masts, which can have a voltage differential in them. Meaning that even after you jump on to it (doable, but stupid) it still might fry you since the voltage could take a "shortcut" from one part of the tower to a few feet up, via you. On power pylons, they're grounded, so you don't have to worry about it.
Posted by djdeadmind
But then, why doesn't it arc to the tower? It's firmly grounded, and the distance from the wires to the arms is far shorter than the closest I'd ever get to them.
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I've climbed around the base, and it's fun in a technical climbing skills sense, but not in a heights sense. You're right, you should be fine if you stay within the bounds of tower.
Bonus fact A fact you mentioned: The top lines are just for lightening protection, and not power transmission! If you check them, you'll notice they have no insulators. They're also rated for a few inches of ice (thousands of pounds)! That means that (as long as you don't dangle down towards the power lines below them) you can theoretically go from tower to tower on them!
It's riskier than some things you can do for the same rush, but not as risky as some people make it out to be. The top line thing though, that's pretty retarded.
[last edit 5/10/2010 1:29 AM by MindHacker - edited 1 times]
"That's just my opinion. I would, however, advocate for explosive breaching, since speed and looking cool are both concerns in my job."-Wilkinshire |
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Mortex
| | Re: High voltage transmission towers?!
<Reply # 25 on 5/11/2010 8:17 PM >
| | | | High-voltage overhead conductors are not covered by insulation. The conductor material is nearly always an aluminium alloy, made into several strands and possibly reinforced with steel strands. Copper was sometimes used for overhead transmission but aluminium is lower in weight for equivalent performance, and much lower in cost. Transmission-level voltages are usually considered to be 110 kV and above (three-phase AC) Since overhead transmission lines are uninsulated, design of these lines requires minimum clearances to be observed to maintain safety. Adverse weather conditions of high wind and low temperatures can lead to power outages: wind speeds as low as 43 km/h can permit conductors to encroach operating clearances, resulting in a flash-over and loss of supply.
Also of note:
Alternating Current - Minimum Working Distances for Trained Employees:
Voltage Range (Kilovolts) Minimum Working Distance (meters)
2.1 to 15 0.6
15.1 to 35 0.71
35.1 to 46 0.76
46.1 to 72.5 0.91
72.6 to 121 1.01
138 to 145 1.06
161 to 169 1.11
230 to 242 1.5
345 to 362 2.13
500 to 552 3.35
700 to 765 4.5
Distances vary with Temperature and Humidity
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NoSuchPerson
 
Stop, or I'll ask you again!
| | Re: High voltage transmission towers?!
<Reply # 26 on 5/12/2010 12:39 AM >
|  | | | Don't get cute with electricity. It WILL kill you. I've seen it maim, disfigure and kill. It's not pretty. Ask these copper thieves. They got zapped with 27.6kV. You're dealing with hundreds of thousands of volts and just as many amperes.
The small current flow that turns your body into something you see below isn't enough to trip the protection circuitry so you'll continue to fry until you fall to pieces. If by some miracle you live and the protection clicks in, it'll reclose a few times by default. That'll kill you.
It is NOT worth it. Trust me.
http://3.bp.blogsp...9to/s1600/IDD3.jpg
Unit calling radio say again? |
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Yield
Location: Look behind you
Gender: Male
I'd do you for a klondike bar
| | Re: High voltage transmission towers?!
<Reply # 27 on 5/12/2010 4:59 AM >
| | | | That picture just scarred me for life.
I've climbed the base of one of these, but I've gotta say - shitting a bird when this got moved to rookie and then stating it was a legit question?
I'm not calling you stupid, I'm glad you asked. Better to ask then to become like that photo. But you said yourself, when you googled it you got a ton of loads for "man kills himself on.." blah blah blah. What did you seriously think everybody was going to say?
And I personally think it was moved to the noob forum because anybody who's climbed anything seriously (which is literally everybody who's posted here, and some) already knows this shit and it's important to flaunt vital information in front of noobs so they don't go fry themselves.
It's like everytime somebody asks about subway runs - not really a noob question but good to inform the newer people of it's potential danger at the same time. So don't take any offense.
But yeah, if you ever get suicidal and climb it, goodbye. God Bless.
Yield's Peer Review:
~Doesn't give a fuck, total badass, and one of my ue-besties.
~Genuine, has positive character and this thing called integrity. Knows when to be serious. Passionate about productive things. Human being. ~fish fish boxing boxing bestest friend evah |
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insanebuslady
Location: ?
Gender: Male
"You talkin' to me?"
| |  | Re: High voltage transmission towers?!
<Reply # 28 on 5/15/2010 6:03 AM >
| | | | Gawd, nobody deserves the fate those two suffered, but that's what you get for thievin the copper
And I just want everyone to remember that this is like 98% speculation on everyones part, but the only clear and concrete thing is that this is obviously a shit idea.
Post something to let us know you didn't die trying this
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NoSuchPerson
Stop, or I'll ask you again!
| | Re: High voltage transmission towers?!
<Reply # 29 on 5/15/2010 10:58 AM >
| | | | Hey, there's more pictures where that one came from
I would argue that they do deserve it. If the law doesn't get you, the electrons will!
Unit calling radio say again? |
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\/adder
Location: DunkarooLand
Gender: Male
I'm the worst of the best but I'm in this race.
| | | Re: High voltage transmission towers?!
<Reply # 30 on 5/15/2010 4:11 PM >
| | | | Or Superpowers.
"No risk, no reward, no fun."
"Go all the way or walk away"
escensi omnis... |
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AnAppleSnail
Location: Charlotte, NC
Gender: Male
ALL the flashlights!
| | | | Re: High voltage transmission towers?!
<Reply # 31 on 5/15/2010 4:29 PM >
| | | | He did.
DJDeadmind wrote:
As of yet, I'm still leaning towards doing it, but not until I can be certain on what the safe distance is, and whether I will be able to keep it.
[snip]
Now I know it is a stupid idea indeed.
[snip]
I will put it off until the next time I feel like dying.
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Achievement Unlocked
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aurelie
Location: pacific northwest
Gender: Female
high tech:: low life.
| | | Re: High voltage transmission towers?!
<Reply # 32 on 5/15/2010 4:36 PM >
| | | | Yeah, I like how everyone seems to ignore his follow-up posts.
reckless thoughts abide; anachronistic and impulsive.
loosely jacketed against the cold and ten thousand worlds for the choosing. |
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person
Location: cincinnati
Gender: Male
| | Re: High voltage transmission towers?!
<Reply # 33 on 6/15/2010 9:15 AM >
| | | | Posted by djdeadmind
Yeah, I am well aware of that. I walk under the lines everyday and I can clearly hear the buzzing of the electricity in humid weather, even though the lines are really high up. I also walk under a far far lower 20kV line, and even in the winter, I can *feel the heat* as I pass under it, even though it's at least 6 or 7 meters above me.
But I know there must be a way to get to the top safely by knowing exactly what the safe distances from the lines, and the things to look out for, are. Right now I'm thinking climbing inside the tower must be the safest way because it'd act a bit like a faraday cage, but I'd have to emerge on the outside (because it gets too thin at the top) right about where the most dangerous part is - the top pair of lines, which are quite close together.
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Electrical engineer here. Not to beat the dead horse, but just want to address a few points, for future reference.
First, "feeling the heat" from a line has little to do with how dangerous it is to you personally, as an explorer. Current makes heat. Lots of heat means that the lines are carrying a lot of current. I do not work with high voltage AC lines, so I don't know how much current we're talking about here, but I assume it's a lot. In this situation, though, you're not worried about the current. In an industrial setting, you would be. Lots of current at a high voltage means even more available fault current (the current available if you, say, shorted two phases together). Lots of available fault current at a high voltage means a greater chance of extremely severe arc faults. Arc faults are what happens when you (among other things) interrupt the flow of high voltage current... it doesn't want to be interrupted, and so the air ionizes and starts conducting electrons too. And arc faults blow up real good, and kill people. At this one plant I used to work at, we made the operators put on flash hoods and gloves when racking 480V breakers in and out, and full flash gear when racking 4160V breakers. That's 240 times, and about 30 times less voltage than a low-level trasmission line, all enclosed in a thick metal mcc cabinet.
But for the average Joe, none of that matters. We're talking about a 120kV transmission line here... high available fault current or no, there's ENOUGH fault current there so if that shit arcs on to you, you're fucked. Even if there was a REALLY FAST non-reclosing circuit breaker upstream of you, one hit of arc is all that's needed. Arc flashes HOT. They melt metal. And people.
Second point. Your OP makes reference to kV's of power. Volts are not power. Pet peeve. ;) As stated above, my opinion is that the power doesn't matter too much... however many megawatts of power these lines are carrying, well... whatever. It's the 120kV potential to ground (with any reasonable amount of available fault current) that's going to kill you.
Third point. Yes, the lines that are opposite each other are the same phase. It looks like it just goes up the tower... say, the bottom two lines are A phase, then B phase, then finally C phase on top.
Final point, to anyone else who might ever consider climbing a tower. Even if you think you're clever enough pull it off, remember that electric stuff sometimes randomly blows the fuck up. That's just what hv power likes to do.
Sorry, that was kind of long...
[last edit 6/15/2010 9:28 AM by person - edited 2 times]
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Twisted Orchid
Gender: Female
My inner child is a mean little fuck
| | Re: High voltage transmission towers?!
<Reply # 34 on 6/15/2010 3:16 PM >
| | | | Posted by jeepdave
I'm redneck but this has "Hey yall, watch this" written all over it.
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LMAO My thoughts exactly. Perhaps you should look into being a stunt double or something with pyrotechnics?
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gr8fzy1
Location: Waterbury, CT
Gender: Male
Fewer and Fewer...
| |  | | Re: High voltage transmission towers?!
<Reply # 35 on 6/20/2010 12:39 AM >
| | | | Case in point about HV things randomly blowing up...
http://www.youtube...atch?v=vCpH19TkMqo
Fast forward to 0:26 and imagine that's you...
Softly creeping through
Empty hallways decades old,
glimpsing history. |
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KingJalopy
Location: Tulsa, OK
Gender: Male
I love manholes
| |  | Re: High voltage transmission towers?!
<Reply # 36 on 6/20/2010 8:34 PM >
| | | |
Dude I have spent some time in Budapest, and you are flat out fucking crazy for taking that shot, if you are infact in Budapest. Some of the craziest driving I've seen has happened in Buda.
For that matter do you live in Buda, or Pesti?
Drains, drains, drains, drains, drains. |
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