Re: Urban Exploration kit, my interpretation of how to do it <Reply # 80 on 12/23/2010 6:03 AM >
Posted by Steed Dude, you make Batman look unprepared.
Also, I bet you don't float.
Thanks for the compliment. I feel you can never be too prepared. Batman is my favourite comic book hero. I also makes you wonder why we do not have any super heros in our contemporary society battling any and all evildoers...
You're right. I can't swim even if my life was at stake. That is why I joined the army and not the navy. Life is measured not by how many breaths you take but by the moments that take your breath away...
Re: Urban Exploration kit, my interpretation of how to do it <Reply # 81 on 12/23/2010 6:34 AM >
Posted by Hephaestus
Thanks for the compliment. I feel you can never be too prepared. Batman is my favourite comic book hero. I also makes you wonder why we do not have any super heros in our contemporary society battling any and all evildoers...
You're right. I can't swim even if my life was at stake. That is why I joined the army and not the navy.
What's more likely, you need to stay afloat, or you get attacked by a bear?
Or, as someone mentioned earlier in this thread, that you have to run from somebody, but you're weighted down by all your equipment?
Overpreparation can leave you incredibly vulnerable. Travelling light pays off.
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Re: Urban Exploration kit, my interpretation of how to do it <Reply # 82 on 12/23/2010 8:18 AM >
Hephaestus,
Being a serviceman, I'm sure that you're familiar that a wide range of supplies may be needed for different conditions and different terrain. But how often are you told that ALL of those supplies are necessary everytime you go out, anywhere? With no consideration being given to only take the supplies you need specifically for the trip you're going to do?
I got the idea that Wolfman understood the items that were listed just fine, but that he was jesting at the non-serviceman's way of wording their posts to sound like they're rambo about to infiltrate a jungle with an elite group of soldiers. (this is common on UER, as kids enjoy dreaming and "playing war") Things tend to be referred to in militarized terms and "special agent/commando" references are given to items and such which make it sound really cool and high tech, but could just as easily be called something normal. I think Wolfman and several of us see this, and we think it's cute. It's hardly your duty to belittle him just cuz he has a TOTALLY HILARIOUS AND AWESOME way of pointing this out to people.
My biggest mistake, when I started exploring mines, was taking EVERYTHING I thought I might need. Alot of the lists of gear loudouts on here sound like that. I mean, yeah, I might need 3 glowsticks and a comprehensive first aid bag, and a gallon of water, and spare glasses and goggles and extra socks and all kinds of other gear... but when it all comes down to it, carrying 16 pounds of gear for an excursion isn't always the greatest idea either.
Especially after you've done 12 runs and found that you use 2% of all that gear. Not saying the stuff can't occasionally come in handy, but you gotta divvy up your gear for what is actually essential, and everything else that would just be nice to have along.
These days I take everything in my "extended supplies" catagory in a duffel in my car. That way if we're parking at a "basecamp" site for a few days, it's still nearby if I need some item; but other than that I pack very minimal now (and I *STILL* end up outpacking many other people). Give a person a match and they'll be warm for a minute, but light them on fire and they'll be warm for the rest of their life. =)
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Re: Urban Exploration kit, my interpretation of how to do it <Reply # 83 on 12/23/2010 8:39 AM >
For instance. I'm the guy on the right. I try now to take all the gear I think I'll need, but to arrange it so that it's easy to carry and comfortable. In that picture I've got:
But inside the Blackhawk hydration pack I've got: Spare headlamp, (2 sets) spare batteries for all lights, 3 glowsticks, 2 bottles of ensure, 4 energy bars, GoPro helcam, cell phone, multitool, pen, pathmarking tape, spare handheld light, painkillers, gum, compass, small medical kit w/ emt shears, (2) N95 masks, spare glasses, alcohol wipes, sample bags for minerals, lighter, and I'm probably forgetting something else.
The guy next to me has a helmet, a headlamp, and a spare & spare batteries in his pockets. And an N95 mask in his pocket, and a harness.
That's my basic loadout for mining. What I carry has been revised over the last year or so, given experience. I can carry it all on me, it doesn't slow me down, and my hydration pack holds all the other stuff so I don't need a big backpack or duffle to carry everything.
I probably use 75% of all these items on a basic mining run. It may sound like "a lot" of gear, but on *that* run we were inside the mine for about 11 hours, and between me and the guys along, we probably used almost 90% of everything I brought.
And that doesn't even include the bags of climbing gear on the right side of the picture! Give a person a match and they'll be warm for a minute, but light them on fire and they'll be warm for the rest of their life. =)
Re: Urban Exploration kit, my interpretation of how to do it <Reply # 84 on 12/23/2010 5:07 PM >
Steed,
What is more likely, staying afloat or being attacked by a bear... That all depends on just like buying a house, location, location, location. Will I pack a PFD while exploring? Next question, will I be by a body of water that I will have that to worry about? The answers, I will not pack or wear a inflatable PFD unless it is strongly specified by the host and I do not yet see that as a requirement. I certainly will be near bodies of water where the depth is unknown but that is where due diligence comes into play. Same thing applies if trekking out in the forested areas to get to say, a logging camp or mining settlement. It isn't that I will be packing for the end of the world but if I put caveats on all articles then this post would be very wordy...
Therrin,
Understandably so I was never my intent to make doctrine just my impression on what maybe required to make one's event go without a hitch. There are articles when say exploring industrial sites or medical institutions that I would not go without. Latex gloves, face mask (N95), and eye protection are a must in my books. For the weight of these, I can not see why you wouldn't carry them at all times.
Dog/bear repellant is environment sensitive item. Probably don't need it if you are touring the subway tunnels but if trekking into the wilderness to get to the abandoned coal mine or settlement and bears or other dangerous wildlife are known to frequent, then pack it. I see that smokes/matches are a sensitive issue on this forum as well. I for one do not smoke nor encourage it. But the two do have other uses I do not want to go too deep into this but tobacco can be used as an offering. For those spiritally inclined, I like to keep an open mind... http://www.theeart...acco-offering.html
I do agree with you in that packing "spares" with you will lead you down the slippery slope of bringing too much. Your your area of exploration, it does look like you have it down to a stream lined science. Pain killers, I guess you mean Tylenol... Kudos to you.
I picked up a 5.11 RUSH24 pack to use as my dedicated UE pack and to double as my 24hour emergency vehicle kit and I am 3/4's complete and the pack is not even full or extremely heavy. If you pack smart size and weight may not be as big an issue as one may think. Once I do have my pack all together, I'll post it and see what the forum says...
Life is measured not by how many breaths you take but by the moments that take your breath away...
Re: Urban Exploration kit, my interpretation of how to do it <Reply # 85 on 12/23/2010 7:24 PM >
Posted by Hephaestus
Thanks for the compliment. I feel you can never be too prepared. Batman is my favourite comic book hero. I also makes you wonder why we do not have any super heros in our contemporary society battling any and all evildoers...
You're right. I can't swim even if my life was at stake. That is why I joined the army and not the navy.
If it looks like a wolf, acts like a wolf, and howls like a wolf, it's probably an asshole.
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Re: Urban Exploration kit, my interpretation of how to do it <Reply # 86 on 12/23/2010 8:27 PM >
Oh fun. Something for me to do at work. Let’s see… where to start….
TheWolfman269 - The guys I trained and sent over to Afghanistan carried more than that on a day to day basis. -Really? Cuz the guys I trained and went over with, after they got all of their final issue, we had a big meeting outside where I made them dump all of their gear out. I then proceeded to go through all of it and told them “you won’t need this and you won’t need that”. It is amazing what people think they might actually need (like an e-tool) that you have to correct them on. And most times when you talk to them about it, they realize their error. If they want to have all that stuff, that’s great. But I guarantee you that after a few days of running around with all that crap attached to you and on your back, you decide to drop a lot of gear real quick.
If you are, and by the sounds of it and your claim, you should know about situational awareness and what is deemed necessary at that point of time for climate and environment. -Exactly. A simple loadout plan the night before to figure out what you would understand as “mission essential” equipment. You’re not gonna need all that crap. Anyone else thinking to that fun scene in “Blackhawk Down” where the new guy is getting to go out and the veterans are telling him not to worry about all the crap he’s trying to bring with him.
Don't undermine your expertise by mincing words. If you do not know what a daypack is, and if you do, don't. It belittles your credibility. -… Son, you really don’t want to get started with me. That second sentence doesn’t even make sense. But if your trying to say what I think your trying to say, my expertise and my credibility are 1. Something that has never been in question. And 2. None of your damn concern. But as Therrin has already said, I was making a joke in reference to the majority of the civilian world not knowing what in the hell you were talking about. It was also meant as a hint to you about that.
Cover story, see above. It's just like your ROE's of what you can and can't say for conduct under capture. -A hint that you obviously did not take. I actually read your thread on your ROE and aside from having a stupid name, there was good information in there. So I did not tear it apart. But then you get into this thread and turn into a Vietnam POW and assume the rest of us are going to need rules for “conduct under capture”. Who the hell is capturing us? Have the Russians invaded and no one told me?
Cameras & tripods are some of the Urban Exr's tools of the trade as well as AV essentials like batteries, light meter, remote shutter release, and filters. You get the idea. I myself are not that camera crazy, I'll just use my camera phone. -Oh no. I got the point. And I’m not a camera guy at all. Got my quick point and click digital camera and that does just fine for my needs. My point on this was that you had that stuff listed as mandatory items which as you pointed out, even for yourself, those items are not mandatory. I love it when people make my point for me. =)
For the size of a bottle of hand sanitizer, it is best to have it and not need it... 1st aid kit. You belittle it and then acknowledge the hand sanitizer... -No. The acknowledgement was a joke. As was the Spiderman band-aid in case you didn’t catch it.
Bug spray, I guess you are "man up" enough that west nile virus and lime disease does not affect you? -No. It affects me. It just doesn’t CONCERN me. We’re all gonna die from something. West nile. Cancer. Avianic Swine Flu. (Also known as when pigs fly flu). Car crash. Gunshot. Stabbed in the eye. Piano falls on our head. One of our Acme traps backfires while we’re trying to catch that damned roadrunner. Something is going to get us. And while we all make concessions to try and prevent some of these (wearing our seatbelts and such), a lot of em are just not worth it. For christ’s sake, the Army gave me a black plague shot before I went to Iraq the first time. What are the chances I’m going to run into a virus from Europe in the Middle Ages? Slim. So if given the option, I would have skipped it. I was again merely pointing out that it wasn’t really mandatory.
GPS/Compass, again if you are going cross country to get to an abandoned dairy farm that should explain itself, -GPS… ok. Maybe… But a compass? A compass is no good without a map. And even then, very few people actually know how to use a compass and a map to get where they are going nowadays. Very few people have had Land Nav classes like we have. But at the same time, there are not many buildings, even abandoned, that don’t have a road or what used to be a road to get to them. It kinda goes along with the idea of a farm. Growing, milking, or slaughtering whatever it is you do there doesn’t do you a lot of good if you can’t get said goods out to get them sold. And I don’t know anyone that is going to wander through the woods with 20 gallons of milk in their hands to do that.
the radio obviously if there is a lagre group... Not to be harsh but do you do all your excursions by yourself? -For the most part, yep. But even if I did have a group, I don’t know that I would be outside of earshot from them. And even if I was, we have cell phones. There ain’t many places you can go anymore that doesn’t have reception. And before it is brought up that a lot of abandoned buildings might block the signal, if they are blocking the cell they are going to block the radio as well.
Balaclava - Adding sardonic comments will lower your credibility... -Not really. It seems to have only raised it.
Rain jacket, well some people may disagree with that, all I'm saying it that anyone can be uncomfortable in the field. If your kit is light and practical, why not? My Arcteryx jacket is great for a light jacket and a rain jacket and a windbreaker. -ok. While I don’t disagree that this is a good thing if the weather calls for it, why would you pack one if you don’t need it? Just check the weather before you leave the “base station” or whatever and pack accordingly. Chance of rain? Sure. Bring it. I would just bring one of those emergency ponchos that are about the size of a pack of gum until you need em but whatever. But sunshiny day, why do I need one?
Bear repellant, different environments may require it. Up in Ontario we can encounter bears... -I’ve already discussed my bear thing enough. No need to bring it back up. Just shoot it and move on.
Smokes & matches well it must be an army thing up here as you can always befriend or break the ice by offering up a smoke. -And you’ll be doing that with the bear that you didn’t repel? I smoke and if you offer me a cigarette, it will most likely not be my brand. And even if it is, it’s not like we’re suddenly best friends. It works in the Middle East but not so much here.
Eye protection, latex gloves, and facemask... Well these are the hallmark of many on this site. I do not see why you would attack these articles? A facemask is good for particulate like spores and fibers, eyeprotection for ... you know what? These are explained already in this forum and I am getting tired of explaining things of this nature to a fellow serviceman. -Oh. You ran out of things to try and defend your poor decisions with. That’s cool. You could have just said that. I would have a hard time defining why I needed eye protection too.
Posted by Therrin I got the idea that Wolfman understood the items that were listed just fine, but that he was jesting at the non-serviceman's way of wording their posts to sound like they're rambo about to infiltrate a jungle with an elite group of soldiers. (this is common on UER, as kids enjoy dreaming and "playing war") Things tend to be referred to in militarized terms and "special agent/commando" references are given to items and such which make it sound really cool and high tech, but could just as easily be called something normal. I think Wolfman and several of us see this, and we think it's cute. It's hardly your duty to belittle him just cuz he has a TOTALLY HILARIOUS AND AWESOME way of pointing this out to people.
Thank you, Therrin. And yes, that is exactly what I was trying to do. Well, not completely. I was also trying to make a post that would make folks laugh. But aside from that, I was just trying to point out what Therrin has just explained. I personally found your gear choices a little excessive and could have been worded differently. I don’t want someone new to this hobby coming in and feeling that they need to go drop a couple thousand dollars in an army surplus store just to pursue this hobby(Or invade a third world country). So I offered up the other side of things. And I didn’t post that up without offering an alternative. Hence why I posted a thread of my own with what I felt was the minimal side of things. Which you are more than welcome to try and go tear apart as I did to yours. But know that I did not do it to be malicious. I did so that provide some humor, show the other side of the coin (Heaven forbid someone have a difference of opinion from yours), and to try and drop a little hint to you that you may want to think about what you’re saying and break it down a little better. Something civilians will understand. I mean, there are college girls on here in their early 20’s that do this as a hobby. Do you really think that one of them is even going to understand half the crap you put on there?
But, now that that has been put out, if you EVER try and deny my credibility again, question my experiences and what I have been through in my service to this country, or make it feel like you are attacking myself or anyone else personally I will cease to continue being a nice guy and trying to help your realize the errors in your ways. I will simply stick with what I find funny and rip most everything that comes out of your mouth to pieces.
"I've got military training, a giant crowbar, and I've already been shot. What can really stop me?" - Myself
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Re: Urban Exploration kit, my interpretation of how to do it <Reply # 87 on 12/23/2010 11:12 PM >
Pain killers, I guess you mean Tylenol... Kudos to you.
Nope, prescription Norco (twice as strong as vicodin, with half the tylenol in it)
Do I still get Kudos?
If you are, and by the sounds of it and your claim, you should know about situational awareness and what is deemed necessary at that point of time for climate and environment. -Exactly. A simple loadout plan the night before to figure out what you would understand as “mission essential” equipment. You’re not gonna need all that crap. Anyone else thinking to that fun scene in “Blackhawk Down” where the new guy is getting to go out and the veterans are telling him not to worry about all the crap he’s trying to bring with him.
Buddy, since we're teammates now, I should point out that your recognizing that scene was a poor choice to point out. The reason that scene was so valuable in the movie is because yes, that is normall what happens; but for the aspects of how that mission turned out, all the things he didn't bring were all the stuff they ended up needing.
That ties into my point that, yeah, on some occasions you WILL need all that junk, but it's hard to tell when that will be, and otherwise the basic loadout has to suffice.
Bug spray, I guess you are "man up" enough that west nile virus and lime disease does not affect you? -No. It affects me. It just doesn’t CONCERN me.
Bug spray... has really been pissing me off lately. Even the 100% DEET stuff. It seemed like the more of it I used, the more I got swarmed. It reminded me of that farside cartoon with the kid and the bottle that said "ON". I found that if I have to sit somewhere, an extremely lightweight sheet that I can wrap up in is far better than bug spray. Besides, bug spray you have to be carefull about spraying on plastics, and it reeks, and ... I don't think it works very well. You could get stung by a scorpion or a spider too, but are you gonna carry spider spray and scorpion killer too? c'mon.
[last edit 12/23/2010 11:24 PM by Therrin - edited 2 times] Give a person a match and they'll be warm for a minute, but light them on fire and they'll be warm for the rest of their life. =)
If it looks like a wolf, acts like a wolf, and howls like a wolf, it's probably an asshole.
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Re: Urban Exploration kit, my interpretation of how to do it <Reply # 88 on 12/23/2010 11:34 PM >
Posted by Therrin
Buddy, since we're teammates now, I should point out that your recognizing that scene was a poor choice to point out. The reason that scene was so valuable in the movie is because yes, that is normall what happens; but for the aspects of how that mission turned out, all the things he didn't bring were all the stuff they ended up needing.
That ties into my point that, yeah, on some occasions you WILL need all that junk, but it's hard to tell when that will be, and otherwise the basic loadout has to suffice.
Oh no. Don't get me wrong, I agree that part of what the told him was dumb. Why anyone was convinced they didn't need body armor was beyond me. And water.... And I don't remember the rest. But it just reminded me of that scene.
You should see some of the packing lists we get sometimes. We'll be going out to the field for the weekend and they have three dufflebags worth of crap on it! Like I pointed out earlier, E tool. When the hell am I ever going to need a mini shovel?! I have never needed a mini shovel outside of one time in basic. And when I DID need a shovel, there is a regular big boys shovel under the back end of the HUMVEE. "I've got military training, a giant crowbar, and I've already been shot. What can really stop me?" - Myself
Re: Urban Exploration kit, my interpretation of how to do it <Reply # 89 on 12/27/2010 5:58 PM >
Are you all done dick waving, yet?
Take shoes. The rest is optional. Get down, girl, go 'head, get down.
Therrin This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
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Re: Urban Exploration kit, my interpretation of how to do it <Reply # 90 on 12/27/2010 7:37 PM >
Posted by hydrotherapy Are you all done dick waving, yet?
Take shoes. The rest is optional.
Wouldn't this be dick-waving in it's truest form? Give a person a match and they'll be warm for a minute, but light them on fire and they'll be warm for the rest of their life. =)
If it looks like a wolf, acts like a wolf, and howls like a wolf, it's probably an asshole.
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Re: Urban Exploration kit, my interpretation of how to do it <Reply # 91 on 12/27/2010 9:43 PM >
Posted by hydrotherapy Are you all done dick waving, yet?
Take shoes. The rest is optional.
mmmm.... nope. I'll be doing that till it turns black and falls off in the crapper. Besides, it doesn't really matter how much we wave it around because mine is bigger. Just saying.
And "take shoes the rest is optional"? This from the same girl that gave me crap for talking about titty bars? So it's ok for women to be naked in public as long as I'm not paying them to be naked in public? That doesn't make any sense from a "Hey! That's a statement against women everywhere" point of view. though at the same time, I am more ok with women being naked without having to pay them so I'm not quite sure why I am arguing about this. I think it's just because I like to argue.... Hmmm.... "I've got military training, a giant crowbar, and I've already been shot. What can really stop me?" - Myself
Re: Urban Exploration kit, my interpretation of how to do it <Reply # 93 on 12/27/2010 11:13 PM >
Posted by TheWolfman269
And "take shoes the rest is optional"? This from the same girl that gave me crap for talking about titty bars? So it's ok for women to be naked in public as long as I'm not paying them to be naked in public? That doesn't make any sense from a "Hey! That's a statement against women everywhere" point of view. though at the same time, I am more ok with women being naked without having to pay them so I'm not quite sure why I am arguing about this. I think it's just because I like to argue.... Hmmm....
Listen, sugartits, I don't rightly care what you wear, or don't wear when you explore. Shoes are essential, but whether you chose to wear tactical pants, a ghillie suit, a sequined bra, a small shrub, or a cardboard box over your head, it doesn't matter. Sure, go exploring with some topless chick (I hear that's legal in some state) and giggle about it on UER. It's endearing. Seriously. Keep it up.
"What to wear" threads show up on UER every week or two. "What is in your gear bag" shows up even more frequently. "Do you pee on things?" is every three days. "Holy fuck- ethics!" is another standard.
And you know what? If anyone, and I mean ANYONE on this website is so green, so naive and so lost as to need to consult a web forum full of cynical fucks about what brand of torch they should take with them before they go to take a tentative look at a shed on the side of the road, expect to be made fun of.
So pardon me for a few, I have some methed out homeless bears to go wrestle in drains while smoking heavily and ensuring I leave no trace of myself or my entrance. And I'll be sure to take photos, or be sure not to, depending on my ethical stance at the moment. And should I happen to fall on some rebar and end up with my intestines all aburst, I'll have some trusty first aid I learned on UER to patch myself up with.
You all may continue. Get down, girl, go 'head, get down.
Re: Urban Exploration kit, my interpretation of how to do it <Reply # 94 on 12/27/2010 11:14 PM >
Tutorials really jumped the shark recently. Get down, girl, go 'head, get down.
Therrin This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
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Re: Urban Exploration kit, my interpretation of how to do it <Reply # 95 on 12/27/2010 11:20 PM >
You all may continue.
AND THE PARTY GOES ON!!!!!! Give a person a match and they'll be warm for a minute, but light them on fire and they'll be warm for the rest of their life. =)
Re: Urban Exploration kit, my interpretation of how to do it <Reply # 97 on 12/28/2010 12:50 AM >
Posted by hydrotherapy
Listen, sugartits, I don't rightly care what you wear, or don't wear when you explore. Shoes are essential, but whether you chose to wear tactical pants, a ghillie suit, a sequined bra, a small shrub, or a cardboard box over your head, it doesn't matter. Sure, go exploring with some topless chick (I hear that's legal in some state) and giggle about it on UER. It's endearing. Seriously. Keep it up.
"What to wear" threads show up on UER every week or two. "What is in your gear bag" shows up even more frequently. "Do you pee on things?" is every three days. "Holy fuck- ethics!" is another standard.
And you know what? If anyone, and I mean ANYONE on this website is so green, so naive and so lost as to need to consult a web forum full of cynical fucks about what brand of torch they should take with them before they go to take a tentative look at a shed on the side of the road, expect to be made fun of.
So pardon me for a few, I have some methed out homeless bears to go wrestle in drains while smoking heavily and ensuring I leave no trace of myself or my entrance. And I'll be sure to take photos, or be sure not to, depending on my ethical stance at the moment. And should I happen to fall on some rebar and end up with my intestines all aburst, I'll have some trusty first aid I learned on UER to patch myself up with.
If it looks like a wolf, acts like a wolf, and howls like a wolf, it's probably an asshole.
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Re: Urban Exploration kit, my interpretation of how to do it <Reply # 98 on 12/28/2010 1:06 AM >
Posted by hydrotherapy Listen, sugartits, I don't rightly care what you wear, or don't wear when you explore. Shoes are essential, but whether you chose to wear tactical pants, a ghillie suit, a sequined bra, a small shrub, or a cardboard box over your head, it doesn't matter. Sure, go exploring with some topless chick (I hear that's legal in some state) and giggle about it on UER. It's endearing. Seriously. Keep it up.
"What to wear" threads show up on UER every week or two. "What is in your gear bag" shows up even more frequently. "Do you pee on things?" is every three days. "Holy fuck- ethics!" is another standard.
And you know what? If anyone, and I mean ANYONE on this website is so green, so naive and so lost as to need to consult a web forum full of cynical fucks about what brand of torch they should take with them before they go to take a tentative look at a shed on the side of the road, expect to be made fun of.
So pardon me for a few, I have some methed out homeless bears to go wrestle in drains while smoking heavily and ensuring I leave no trace of myself or my entrance. And I'll be sure to take photos, or be sure not to, depending on my ethical stance at the moment. And should I happen to fall on some rebar and end up with my intestines all aburst, I'll have some trusty first aid I learned on UER to patch myself up with.
You all may continue.
If only I actually did have Sugar tits. That would truly give me a reason to never leave the house.
And fuck choosing! I'm totally gonna find the chick that goes out UE wearing tactical pants, with a ghillie suit on over a sequined bra while also wearing a small shrug and a cardboard box on thier head. Someone find me this person!
But as for the rest of your rant, was that directed at me? You know this isn't my thread, right?
With that being said, just due to the last paragraph from your post, I think I might need to send you a PM, Hydro. Therrin, what do you think? ;)
"I've got military training, a giant crowbar, and I've already been shot. What can really stop me?" - Myself
Therrin This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
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Re: Urban Exploration kit, my interpretation of how to do it <Reply # 99 on 12/28/2010 2:22 AM >
I think yer barkin up the wrong tree bud.
oh and "that girl" already exists. There's a video of her on FB somewhere, she's been covered in these threads already, she has the most epic/un-epic explorer garb ever seen.
Not having started a thread doesn't mean that you can't be one of the sole responders, and therefor become responsible for an argument inside such thread. (thrust me) Give a person a match and they'll be warm for a minute, but light them on fire and they'll be warm for the rest of their life. =)
