I'm beginning to find messages in my mailbox from various Christian wingnuts that attribute the wiping of New Orleans off the map to one or another of their pet causes. Here we learn that Canadians aren't immune to this kind of insanity. This, from the webpage of the Christian Heritage Party:

Katrina’s warning to America by Ron Gray, September 1, 2005 Former CBS correspondent Dan Dolan was in my hometown (Abbotsford, BC) the night before Hurricane Katrina crashed ashore just east of New Orleans. An observer of the Middle East conflict for more than 20 years, Dolan believes Katrina was God’s warning to the United States to stop pressuring Israel to give up land that God gave to the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He noted the eerie parallel between the stream of refugees pouring out of Gaza, and more than a million refugees streaming out of New Orleans. Gaza was literally nothing before the establishment of Israel in 1948—just a few acres of sand. Far back into history, it had been desert. Even the historical antecedent of Gaza “City” was only a Philistine village from which bandits raided caravans bound to or from Egypt. But Israel made Gaza bloom. Israeli farms and greenhouses there produced 70 per cent of Israel’s exports of tropical fruits to Europe and the rest of the world. Now, under pressure from the United States and Europe, those productive farmers have been driven out, and their lands turned over to those sworn to destroy them. The houses the Jews built in Gaza have been destroyed. Like houses in Louisiana were destroyed by Katrina. And already, Iran is shipping arms and war materiel to Hamas in Gaza. This forced evacuation will not bring peace to the Middle East. Gaza will be used as an attack base by the so-called “Palestinians”—a people who have never existed in history: until 1967, European literature used the term “Palestinian” as a synonym for “Jew”. We’re told President Bush prays and reads his Bible. Here are some passages he should heed: Jeremiah 31:10 — “Hear the word of the Lord, O nations, and declare in the coastlands afar off, and say, ‘He who scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him as a shepherd keeps his flock.’ For the LORD has ransomed Jacob, and redeemed him from the hand of him who was stronger than he.” Jeremiah 32:40 — “And I (God) will make an everlasting covenant with them that I will not turn away from them, to do them good...” In Jeremiah 32:44 God describes very precisely the area where He will plant Israel: “...in the land of Benjamin (which includes Jericho, Gilgal, Gibeon and Jerusalem), in the cities of Judah (including Bethlehem and Gaza), in the cities of the hill country (i.e., Samaria—which the news media falsely call the “occupied West Bank” of Jordan; it was really taken from Israel and occupied by Trans-Jordan in 1948, to be recovered by Israel, along with Jerusalem, in 1967), and in the cities of the Negev...” In Jeremiah 32:13 & 14, God reiterates, in a different order, the lands He gave to Israel: “ ‘In the cities of the hill country, in the cities of the lowland (the coastlands, which includes Gaza City), in the cities of the Negev, in the land of Benjamin, in the environs of Jerusalem, and in the cities of Judah... Behold, the days are coming,’ says the LORD, ‘when I will fulfill the good word which I have spoken concerning the house of Israel and the House of Judah.’ ” It couldn’t be clearer. I pray that they will heed the warning who put pressure on Israel to give up those very lands to enemies who have sworn to destroy God’s work in the Middle East—Condoleezza Rice, at the instruction of President Bush, threatened to cut off Israel’s supply of parts and armaments if they did not cede Gaza and Samaria to the so-called ‘Palestinians’. A hurricane may, indeed, be the voice of God.

Well...I guess Bush is very busy reading his bible, cuz he ain't in New Orleans helping out.

Posted by thoughtcriminal I'm beginning to find messages in my mailbox from various Christian wingnuts that attribute the wiping of New Orleans off the map to one or another of their pet causes. Here we learn that Canadians aren't immune to this kind of insanity. This, from the webpage of the Christian Heritage Party:

Too dumb for being stupid. My solace is that, in the end, natural selection will weed them out.

More sick wingnut lunacy. This is also from a Canadian website.

New Orleans City Council President: "Maybe God's Going To Cleanse Us" NEW ORLEANS, September 1, 2005 (LifeSiteNews.com) - The popular adage, "there are no atheists in the trenches" sums up the truth that in times of disaster it is natural for people to turn to God, for help and also for an explanation. The devastation wrought by hurricane Katrina has brought that reality home to the United States, particularly in the affected regions. Yesterday Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco called for a state-wide day of prayer. "As we face the devastation wrought by Katrina, as we search for those in need, as we comfort those in pain and as we begin the long task of rebuilding, we turn to God for strength, hope and comfort," she said. Meanwhile, New Orleans City Council President Oliver Thomas after witnessing the horrors first hand and hearing talk of Sodom and Gomorrah commented, "Maybe God's going to cleanse us." The theme of cleansing or purification has become a frequently discussed topic as the tragedy in the affected states unfolds. European papers have suggested that Katrina was the punishment the US received for failing to sign onto the Kyoto accord, Islamic militants have rejoiced that "private" Katrina has joined in the holy war against the U.S. for - among other things - the Iraq war. Some have even suggested that the hurricane was God's punishment on the U.S. for cooperating in the removal of Jews from the Gaza strip. However, beyond these speculations is a more general acknowledgement that New Orleans, the epicentre of the disaster, was a "sin city" which harboured few rivals. The New Orleans "southern decadence" festival which was to take place Labour Day weekend, is described by a French Quarter tourism site as "sort of like a gayer version of Mardi Gras" which is "most famous (or infamous) for the displays of naked flesh which characterize the event," with "public displays of sexuality . . . pretty much everywhere you look." The city is also renowned for occult practices, particularly voodoo. Voodoo is also common in seemimngly hopelessly crime infested Haiti. Michael Brown, creator of the immensely popular SpiritDaily.com website - popularly known as the Catholic DrudgeReport, has said that Katrina was "definitely" a purification for New Orleans. Brown points out that the name Katrina itself means "pure". And that, Brown told LifeSiteNews.com, is not a coincidence. "I don't believe in coincidences," said Brown, adding that God has everything in His control and "I think that everything is interwoven." LifeSiteNews.com contacted Brown due to his startlingly accurate prediction of the events in New Orleans in 2001, when he issued what is now being seen as a warning to New Orleans. In 2001 Brown wrote a piece about what he felt was upcoming disaster for New Orleans. Brown began, "There are few cities with so many good as New Orleans and also few cities where there is such a stark coexistence with the bad. It is this city, the Big Easy, that is home to kind and generous and Christian people . . . and yet also this city that has allowed evil to flourish in a way that has become truly dangerous." Noting the occult practices and the sexual immorality, Brown warned, "When you invoke dark spirits, you get a storm. The very word hurricane comes from the Indian hurukan for evil spirit."

Here's another forwarded in e-mail:

Subj: HURRICAINE KATRINA THE WRATH OF GOD? Date: 9/1/2005 11:08:27 PM Central Daylight Time From: [email protected] To: xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent from the Internet (Details) CONSERVATIVE. CHRISTIAN. SCIENTIFIC FACTS. BIBLICAL TRUTHS. THE ROBERT BARAL E-NEWS ALERT! 9/01/2005 AD Dear Friends: Hurricaine Katrina satellite photos show the image of a 6 week old human fetus: http://www.voy.com/168403/2347.html New Orleans is a city of sin and the epicentre of the abortion industry in the Gulf coast. Was Hurricaine Katrina the wrath of GOD for America's sins? read: "analysis: HURRICAINE KATRINA SATELLITE PHOTOS SHOW IMAGE OF 6 WEEK OLD HUMAN FETUS" @ http://www.voy.com/168403/2347.html Yours in our Lord CHRIST JESUS, Robert Baral http://www.voy.com/168403/ http://www.ourchur...mber/r/RobertBaral ROBERT BARAL'S CHRISTIAN CRUSADE! http://www.ourchur...mber/r/RobertBaral "There is nothing so vile and abominable in the eyes of Heaven as the abortionist and the homosexual; the first because he destroys the Divine spark of human life, the second because he perverts it." - R W Baral

Posted by KublaKhan Well...I guess Bush is very busy reading his bible, cuz he ain't in New Orleans helping out.

Wrong. Though I've heard he does read The Scripture on a daily basis.

http://www.sunhera...state/12546969.htm

Posted by Mr. X Wrong. Though I've heard he does read The Scripture on a daily basis. http://www.sunhera...state/12546969.htm

Yeah...there he was, sleeves rolled up, chillin with the Mayor, the guv'nor.

I saw that picture taken of him hugging the 'folks,' [source: Fox News] and it looked like it was taken with a cell phone camera. Very pixely...poor quality...and I was thinking, 'there are reports of snipers shooting at people all over the city, snipers...all over the city, armed folks commandeering passing vehicles, etc. etc...and I wondered: what is the likelihood of the Secret Service actually allowing a citizen to pull something out of his pocket and aim it at the President? Would some regular guy get close enough to aim something at the President? Even a cell phone?

Not fucking likely.

Wow, from a Canadian site, wierd.

I knew that this was going to happen, especially when I started listening to mid-west Christian stations and heard these very things.

Brown points out that the name Katrina itself means "pure". And that, Brown told LifeSiteNews.com, is not a coincidence. "I don't believe in coincidences," said Brown, adding that God has everything in His control and "I think that everything is interwoven."

And Ivan means "God is good." I think that's a bit of a reach. I honestly don't know what to say about all this. I don't know if there was a "reason" for the hurricane damage and if there was one I won't even begin to claim I know what it was.

I do find this one interesting: "Islamic militants have rejoiced that "private" Katrina has joined in the holy war against the U.S. for - among other things - the Iraq war."

Posted by IrishLady I don't know if there was a "reason" for the hurricane damage and if there was one I won't even begin to claim I know what it was.

The reason for the hurricane? We live on planet Earth, where natural disasters sometimes occur.

Posted by katwoman The reason for the hurricane? We live on planet Earth, where natural disasters sometimes occur.

I'm glad no one thus far has bought into the nonsense these zealots of righteousness are spewing forth.

Scripture does warn that toward the end times natural disasters frequency will increase, but I don't think it's a good idea to apply that ideaology to one storm. I much more apt to agree with Katwoman. We had Andrew that caused about equivalent devestation in the 90s. Given that, it was only a matter of time before a storm of this magnitude hit again.

Posted by Kenshin Scripture does warn that toward the end times natural disasters frequency will increase, but I don't think it's a good idea to apply that ideaology to one storm. I much more apt to agree with Katwoman. We had Andrew that caused about equivalent devestation in the 90s. Given that, it was only a matter of time before a storm of this magnitude hit again.

Then perhaps we should discuss the last 40 years of natural disasters. Floods, hurricanes, drought, killer ice storms, rising sea levels...there's a chunk of ice the size of Texas floating around the South Pacific and it's melting.

Some people say there's good reason for this weird weather: Global Warming.

Posted by katwoman The reason for the hurricane? We live on planet Earth, where natural disasters sometimes occur.

I meant a reason with some divine meaning behind it, I know the science.

I knew what you meant, IrishLady. That was my way of saying that I don't believe natural disasters occur because of God's wrath and judgement.

That said, I do think that the article below, written by Chuck Colson, is extremely thought-provoking. (Please read the full text before commenting. Thanks.)



-----

September 7, 2005


Last week, I was on vacation, taking the first real break in a while, but I spent hours, as did most Americans, glued to the television, watching with absolute horror at the devastation wrought by Hurricane Katrina. Now enough time has passed, perhaps, to reflect on some of the lessons Katrina—or maybe God speaking through Katrina—has taught us.


First, this was a catastrophe of epic proportions. And it wasn't just the Gulf
region that was affected. It was the whole nation, because our fuel supply is so dependent on the area hit. Katrina struck a direct blow to the nerve center of America.


"Is this God's judgment?" many people asked. I'm always reluctant to speculate because it is too easy to blame God for things that we bring upon ourselves or to falsely read the mind of God. But we can say for sure theologically that an all-powerful sovereign God can prevent a natural disaster anytime He chooses to. So, in one sense, one would have to say: Yeah, God permitted it.


But rather than blame God, as one columnist did this weekend, we should ask ourselves whether we are responsible. After all, the city of New Orleans was built six feet below sea level, surrounded by levies that everyone knew were sufficient only for a category-3 hurricane and could not stop a big storm surge. For years, people partied in the French Quarter, celebrating their "good luck" every time a monster storm missed them—almost as if they were playing the slot machines at the casinos that line the Gulf Coast. Talk about shaking your fist at God.


Then consider our fuel supply. Energy experts have warned us for years that we ack refining capacity. But we have not built one new refinery in thirty years. Why not? Because no one wants one in their backyard, any more than they want offshore drilling. Everybody's for offshore drilling, of course, so long as it is off somebody else's shore. There are politicians who get elected and re-elected simply by promising not to allow offshore drilling in their state, even one hundred miles offshore. And what about nuclear power? We could end dependence on foreign sources of energy simply by resuming our nuclear power building program—but environmentalists have blocked it, as they have blocked Arctic drilling, which, to my way of thinking, would have minimal environmental consequences.


So who do we blame for this direct hit on the nation's soft underbelly? Yeah, we can say God allowed it. And if so, good, it gets our attention, and it is a wake-up call, which we need.


But I say, look first at ourselves. We've allowed ourselves to concentrate much of our oil supply in that one vulnerable area. We've ignored steps that could give us energy independence. And we have allowed New Orleans and the vital Mississippi delta, which affects commerce all through the Midwest, to sit there as an inviting target, hoping chance would spare us. What fools we mortals be.


Now, this is no time for finger-pointing, which is unseemly, certainly while so many thousands have lost their lives. I personally am offended by the politicians seeking to exploit this tragedy for partisan gain. But it is a time when we ought to take a sober look at ourselves and turn to God daily, asking Him—not for justice, we might get it—but for mercy. We ought to be repenting for all of our sins as a people and for falling so short. The lesson with Katrina? Lord, have mercy and give us wisdom not to repeat our mistakes.

Thanks for the article, Katwoman. The author makes some notable points, especially in relation to power supply. Nuclear power is statistically less risky than coal power, for one example. It also is less harmful to the environment and is very efficient in comparison.

It's not good practice to argue questions of theodicy without having a defined doctrine of the God concept involved. For example, a theologian with a background in process thought would probably argue that the physical laws of our world, created by God, cause these disasters, and that it's not an attack or message from God. However, because in process theology God is considered both immanent and transcendent, and because our experiences are part of God's experience, God is actively suffering with those affected by disasters. Many process theologians such as Cobb and Harthorne would then examine both science and ecotheology for further sources of reasoning.

A theologian whose doctrine of God includes predestination would probably argue that God knew this was going to happen, which then would allow for reasoning about God's intent. A traditional theologian would probably rely mostly upon scripture for their argument of God's intent.

Just some food for thought...

Posted by thoughtcriminal Here's another forwarded in e-mail:

I've pasted my emails with this Robert Baral lunatic. This guy is hardcore. I also love stiring up S**T. I've got 5 days till university begins, my summer job is finished so I obviously have to much time on my hands. I also despise fundamentalists whether they be Muslim, Christian, Jewish or any religion. I'm having a good laugh at this moron's expense. I've posted my emails for your comedic pleasure below.




Sir,

I laugh at disillusioned zealots who disguise the word of the Lord behind spreadings of hate. Why not do something truly Christian: donate and volunteer to help those in need in the gulf states. Why not direct people to donate to the Red Cross or Salvation Army from your site. Help the sick, injured, and dying. Spreading false propaganda will not help those in need, whether they are Christian or not. If you truly believe the outline of storm ravaged New Orleans looks like a fetus, may I suggest your doctor prescribe you a high dose of Chlorpromazine or other suitable antipsychotic medication to alleviate your hallucinations.

Robert Baral <[email protected]> wrote:
Sir:

The LORD Almighty rebuke you for your hardness of heart & rebellion against GOD's Authority over all things.

As it is written in ISAIAH 5, "Woe unto them who call evil good, and good evil."

I urge you to repent at The Cross of our Lord JESUS CHRIST, lest you loose your eternal soul to everlasting fire & brimstone in the deepest pits of hell.

Hallelulah!

Yours,

-Bob



<[email protected]> wrote:
You sir, are mentally ill and delusional. Your postings on the net are proof of this.

Uh...sorry. i lost track of where this thread's heading. Or where it's been.

Who is this Robert Baral fellow, and why does he want to save my soul? Or your soul? Or...whatever.

Posted by KublaKhan Uh...sorry. i lost track of where this thread's heading. Or where it's been. Who is this Robert Baral fellow, and why does he want to save my soul? Or your soul? Or...whatever.

Never mind. I don't care anymore.

Posted by KublaKhan Uh...sorry. i lost track of where this thread's heading. Or where it's been. Who is this Robert Baral fellow, and why does he want to save my soul? Or your soul? Or...whatever.

Subj: HURRICAINE KATRINA THE WRATH OF GOD?
Date: 9/1/2005 11:08:27 PM Central Daylight Time
From: [email protected]
To: xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent from the Internet (Details)


CONSERVATIVE. CHRISTIAN. SCIENTIFIC FACTS. BIBLICAL TRUTHS. THE ROBERT BARAL E-NEWS ALERT!
9/01/2005 AD

Dear Friends:

Hurricaine Katrina satellite photos show the image of a 6 week old human fetus:

http://www.voy.com/168403/2347.html

New Orleans is a city of sin and the epicentre of the abortion industry in the Gulf coast.

Was Hurricaine Katrina the wrath of GOD for America's sins?

read:

"analysis: HURRICAINE KATRINA SATELLITE PHOTOS SHOW IMAGE OF 6 WEEK OLD HUMAN FETUS" @

http://www.voy.com/168403/2347.html


Yours in our Lord CHRIST JESUS,


Robert Baral
http://www.voy.com/168403/
http://www.ourchur...mber/r/RobertBaral
ROBERT BARAL'S CHRISTIAN CRUSADE!
http://www.ourchur...mber/r/RobertBaral

"There is nothing so vile and abominable in the eyes of Heaven as the abortionist and the homosexual; the first because he destroys the Divine spark of human life, the second because he perverts it." - R W Baral