http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article325560.ece
http://www.adnki.com/index_2Level.php?cat=Terrorism&loid=8.0.226404219&par=


Google for the phrase "Some artillery guns fired white phosphorous rounds that create a screen of fire that cannot be extinguished with water." for many more related articles.

And, of course that's only one type of round really being discussed, let's not forget their enhanced napalm rounds and such...
http://electroniciraq.net/news/1928.shtml

Of course let's not forget the more than 11,000 Iraqis held in U.S.-run prisons and bases throughout Iraq without trial for an unlimited time, and often without knowledge of the charges against them or any contact with the outside world. Without even mentioning torture, that alone is pitiful.

Shame on every American who allows and supports their country to do such things, "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State...".

I hope that the following people, and all others involved, can succeed in actually spreading the word to everyone else of everything what you have done to them in the name of Freedom:
http://www.selvesa...g/article9504.html
http://www.selvesa...g/article9502.html
http://www.selvesa...g/article9503.html
( Interviews made possible through the Adopt-A-Detainee program http://cpt.org/cam...opt_a_detainee.php - See another list of Human Rights abuse testimonies http://cpt.org/iraq/iraqtestimonies.php )

But, as I've already reported, your government has already requested permission to impose martial law onto you, and permission to use torture against you, the citizens. They've been doing it in small patches - locking up their own citizens without a trial or committing them, that is, for a long time - as well as not having any privacy or protections - anything you say or do can be recorded or tapped without even a court order. They consider themselves immune to the International Criminal Court and have claimed direction by God.

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew

Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a communist

and then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist

and then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me

--pastor Niemoeller (victim of the Nazis)

Everyone that stands by and doesn't help others when he can, is just as guilty for their pain as the one that attacks them, except he is also greedy, and a coward.


And I think I'll end this with some information from Amnesty International...

Illegal “disappearances”, secret transfers, and incommunicado detentions in the US administration’s “war on terror” must end.

Secret Detention in CIA "Black Sites"

"Disappearance", Secret detention and Arbitrary detention

USA / Afghanistan: More deaths and impunity - A Public Statement

Cruel. Inhuman. Degrades us all. - Stop torture and ill-treatment in the ‘War on terror’

United States of America
Guantánamo and beyond:
The continuing pursuit of unchecked executive power - Executive Summary(1)

USA: Further Information on legal concern / health concern / torture

One of their clients, Yousef al-Shehri, described how after approximately seven days without food or water, he and four other prisoners were taken to the camp hospital where they were verbally abused, insulted and placed in shackles or other restraints on their arms, legs, waist, chest, knees and head. After this he said they were given intravenous medication and described how, if they moved, they were hit in the chest area. The detainees were then apparently told, falsely, that a court had ordered that they be forcibly fed. The petition describes how Yousef al-Shehri, who is believed to have been a juvenile when initially detained, was administered the force-feeding: "Yousef was given no anaesthesia or sedative for the procedure; instead two soldiers restrained him – one holding his chin while the other held him back by his hair, and a medical staff member forcefully inserted the tube in his nose and down his throat. Much blood came out of his nose..." After two or three days he was given liquid supplement through the tube. He said that he and other prisoners were "vomiting up substantial amounts of blood. When they vomited up blood, the soldiers mocked and cursed them, and taunted them with statements like 'look what your religion has brought you.'"

But I mean, it's not like they only act like this outside of their borders, or to other people...

USA: Thousands of Children Sentenced to Life Without Parole <- In Real countries; life is only 25 years, kids under 18 can't get life, under 18 would mostly go to a rehabilitation mental institute and not an ass-rape-a-thon jungle that many countries find so disgusting they won't even EXTRADITE to, kids can't even be charged until they're 14 let alone get their heads chopped off (there is no difference between the guillotine, electric chair, fireing range), it's very unlikely they'd get a strong conviction for their first conviction at all... No one else has such ridiculous and astounding crime rates, either... It's just crazy...
But it's not the crimes, anyways... "In 1990, for example, 2,234 children were convicted of murder and 2.9 percent sentenced to life without parole. By 2000, the conviction rate had dropped by nearly 55 percent (1,006), yet the percentage of children receiving LWOP sentences rose by 216 percent (to nine percent)." - It's just a fucked up system, unchecked, gone out of control.

Or the über police doing whatever they want... Stonewalled : Police abuse and misconduct against lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people in the U.S. - If you give them all powers, don't check them, don't record them at all time, and even let them off due the the Judge/Police "Buddy System" like you see happen when all the black guys are beaten up or shot for no reason, then you end if without any law. It's really the Wild West, and completely disgusting. All they have to do is take you to a field and shoot you and come up with a bad reason why... Real countries do not have this, because the police are strictly controlled, video taped, and treated with extreme suspicion... We also fire and CHARGE officers for simply threatening a suspect, it's simply unacceptable. You guys let people stay a city Mayor when they express that thieves should "have their thumbs cut off"...

Hey, that turned out to be a bit longer than I expected... Whatever...

Isn't it comforting to know that other places have free healthcare, free education (inc. University), more respected education, unprecedented privacy and personal security laws (hell, it's even damn hard to get a phone tap - and, of course, a court order is always required - or even that IP record laws are wiped every 14 days - or that no one can save or sell your personal info); a legal system of checks and balances as opposed to lawyers controlling people, acting out extremities and getting off on loopholes; no torture or abuse, even humane prisons as everything is watched and checked in multiple ways; no starting wars and slaughtering innocent people (thank you for bringing up things several generation ago, but, in case you didn't know, Germany was being opressed and raped of all it's power and resources for many many years before WWII and that was the reason the people agreed with starting it - and you would, too, if you had a forced Depression from other countries, created under lies and pretenses just to steal your money); extremely low crime rates compared to the US; no fear of being attacked or mugged; the fact that no one owns weapons, so if you ARE mugged, the chance you'd get shot is VERY low - you hand over your wallet and you insurance replaces everything and that's that - they're not jumpy or afraid of you because they know you wouldn't waste a human life over 100$ - which would also be a crime; recreational drugs, alchohol, smoking, and prostitution are all non-issues; no ridiculous television censorship - you can show a normal nude body or say "fuck" at any time - Why couldn't you? Too afraid of LIFE?; free speech doesn't include hatred, same as it doesn't include shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre - sure you can have all the free speech you want, but gay bashing, slandar, or real harassment aren't protected; other countries have a real support and welfare system for those that need it - giving them a real chance and not just forcing them to work like slaves for a few pennies; unrestricted research as opposed to the US constantly fudging and stopping research, including personal research; the strictest environmental controls, that obviously don't hurt industry; an economy that is doing very well; no rightwing Christian fundamentalists - I don't know what they do over there, but over here Theology is a normal University study and one of the first things you learn is how to INTERPRET the bible as a philosophical guide and not to take things literally - plus there's something about being nice and non-judgemental or something; 1/8th of the deficit, and it's growing at a MUCH slower rate; and just the simple freedom to live freely, which you don't have in the US. They're even starting to restrict travel of ordinary citizens.

"And the land of the free..." <- Yeah... Keep saying that...

I don't know if there are any simple solutions to the US. The majority of the population belongs to a religion that officially thinks it's ok to rape and pillage the earth, since God's going to bitchslap the planet into oblivion "Real Soon Now" and they'll be rewarded for having the biggest piece of the pie. Sure, not all Christians are as bad as the government leadership, but most of them supported him since gay marriage and abortion is way scarier than some brown people dying somewhere else.

Democrats aren't much better either. For all the talk of fairness and equality inside the US, they're not about to give up their SUVs and disposable income so the rest of the wold can have a little equality. And those future generations will just have to deal without oil and air, it's certainly not our problem. Both parties in the US are notoriously weak on thinking outside the borders and actually considering long term policy, partly because that would piss off voters, and partly because it would piss off their corporate owners sponsors. I can see something like "The republican party, brought to you by Wal-Mart", or "McDonalds Presents President Gore" in a few years, and people will be fine with it.

The media? Fuck if I know, I guess they get more money from celebrity scandals than covering military abuses, and war reporters who try to get the real story probably end up "kidnapped and beheaded" by "the bad guys".

Personally, I'd like to say that I'm doing my part by not owning a car and not purchasing new products because I care about the environment and don't want to support US corporate government, but really I'm just a cheapass. I don't know where my youthful activism went, but I just want the economy to crash and the government to collapse so I can point and laugh.

I might have had that opinion if I was living there, or if I was just a lot older...:

However right now I'm stuck on an island with a bunch of fucking retarded slob nuts who spend the day beating everyone else into submission, polluting HUGE amounts more than any other comparable place on the planet, being completely lawless - letting rich murders go but arresting a visiting Swiss boy because some nut rambled bullshit about him, and holding him in a normal Adult prison for years, completely destroying him -, having no healthcare, social help, education systems, ANYTHING whatsoever - and outsourcing their slave labour, torture, and murder while judging everyone else and chanting about the end of the world. And of course, if you want to do anything about it, they happily remind you that they don't care about anyone or anything, other than money and power over others, and are sitting on huge stockpiles of ABC weapons. Did I mention them stifling all energy research so they can rape everyone of their last dime into using their polluting toxic energy resources until the very last drop of the liquid black gold is used, not caring what damage and destruction they cause?

But yeah - Wastes of resources poisoning the planet for everyone else and raping them for it.

The constitution would need to be changed, and reforms in ALL basic systems would need to be made...

After World War II, the Americans wrote Germany's constitution, and in a few years, the country was rebuilding fine, and in a few dozen years it was the world's flagship of individual's freedom and peace; but with such a broken, fearful, "God"-controlled society like America, I have to wonder if if could be so easily rebuilt...

But yes, if it only didn't hurt everyone ELSE I'd agree with you - Sit and watch and laugh - if someone wants to destroy themself it's fine, but not when they're ruining the entire planet.

Thanks for posting all of this.
I find it all very interesting.
Hopefully you can keep posting more.

I note that the US's major trading partners in the EU and elsewhere aren't boycotting them in disgust, and the only nations who are actively calling us out on our illegal activities are the ones we're screwing over. It doesn't justify anything, but the major powers of the world are just as complacent about it as the majority of US citizens. They're getting their trade dollars and McDonalds, and they don't need to think about what happens in Africa or Indonesia too much.

What is the solution? What economic/political system is going to be globally viable, acceptable to the majority of people, and not subject to corruption? I'd be in favor of the UN having all the nukes and threatening to smash various capitols/holy lands/ national monuments if local governments and religious nuts didn't behave, but then who keeps them in line?

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people.

I agree with Dante, that the hottest places in hell are reserved for those who,
in a period of moral crisis, maintain their neutrality. There comes a time when silence is betrayal.









MLK2 quotes aside, there is still a Christian Left out there, please don't stereotype all Christians as supporting Bush.

<nods to both>

MLK2 quotes aside, there is still a Christian Left out there, please don't stereotype all Christians as supporting Bush.

I know many Christians and while I will admit I loose a fair bit of respect for someone when they admit to believing in "The All Powerful Dude, Pitchfork Man, and Zombie-Jesus Show" just for blindly believing others instead of just pure logic and science... But I also know that many, many, are nice people and even some that take their religion seriously (as opposed to most I know that were just born into it) can still be completely sane people - I mean, the Vatican itself denounced the teaching of Intelligent Design in Science classes...

The US has now admitted using white phosphorus as a weapon in Falluja last year, after earlier denying it.

http://news.bbc.co...ericas/4442988.stm
http://news.bbc.co...e_east/4442156.stm

Posted by Beryl The US has now admitted using white phosphorus as a weapon in Falluja last year, after earlier denying it.

White Phosphorus is a very good weapon. War sucks. Oh, and also..."Ingestion of white phosphorus may cause a medical condition known as "Smoking Stool Syndrome".

white phosphorus is a "chemical" ?

imagine that!

but then again so is C-4, thermite, napalm, tri-nitro-toluylene, or frickin black powder all chemicals

I think the Chinese invented chemicals

Posted by 2Xtreme white phosphorus is a "chemical" ? imagine that!

Everything is a chemical. What does your post have to do with coating civilians in napalm, ie "the topic"?

Posted by Beryl http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article325560.ece http://www.adnki.com/index_2Level.php?cat=Terrorism&loid=8.0.226404219&par= Google for the phrase "Some artillery guns fired white phosphorous rounds that create a screen of fire that cannot be extinguished with water." for many more related articles. And, of course that's only one type of round really being discussed, let's not forget their enhanced napalm rounds and such... http://electroniciraq.net/news/1928.shtml Of course let's not forget the more than 11,000 Iraqis held in U.S.-run prisons and bases throughout Iraq without trial for an unlimited time, and often without knowledge of the charges against them or any contact with the outside world. Without even mentioning torture, that alone is pitiful. Shame on every American who allows and supports their country to do such things, "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State...". I hope that the following people, and all others involved, can succeed in actually spreading the word to everyone else of everything what you have done to them in the name of Freedom: http://www.selvesa...g/article9504.html http://www.selvesa...g/article9502.html http://www.selvesa...g/article9503.html ( Interviews made possible through the Adopt-A-Detainee program http://cpt.org/cam...opt_a_detainee.php - See another list of Human Rights abuse testimonies http://cpt.org/iraq/iraqtestimonies.php ) But, as I've already reported, your government has already requested permission to impose martial law onto you, and permission to use torture against you, the citizens. They've been doing it in small patches - locking up their own citizens without a trial or committing them, that is, for a long time - as well as not having any privacy or protections - anything you say or do can be recorded or tapped without even a court order. They consider themselves immune to the International Criminal Court and have claimed direction by God. First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist and then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist and then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me --pastor Niemoeller (victim of the Nazis) Everyone that stands by and doesn't help others when he can, is just as guilty for their pain as the one that attacks them, except he is also greedy, and a coward. And I think I'll end this with some information from Amnesty International... Illegal “disappearances”, secret transfers, and incommunicado detentions in the US administration’s “war on terror” must end. Secret Detention in CIA "Black Sites" "Disappearance", Secret detention and Arbitrary detention USA / Afghanistan: More deaths and impunity - A Public Statement Cruel. Inhuman. Degrades us all. - Stop torture and ill-treatment in the ‘War on terror’ United States of America Guantánamo and beyond: The continuing pursuit of unchecked executive power - Executive Summary(1) USA: Further Information on legal concern / health concern / torture But I mean, it's not like they only act like this outside of their borders, or to other people... USA: Thousands of Children Sentenced to Life Without Parole <- In Real countries; life is only 25 years, kids under 18 can't get life, under 18 would mostly go to a rehabilitation mental institute and not an ass-rape-a-thon jungle that many countries find so disgusting they won't even EXTRADITE to, kids can't even be charged until they're 14 let alone get their heads chopped off (there is no difference between the guillotine, electric chair, fireing range), it's very unlikely they'd get a strong conviction for their first conviction at all... No one else has such ridiculous and astounding crime rates, either... It's just crazy... But it's not the crimes, anyways... "In 1990, for example, 2,234 children were convicted of murder and 2.9 percent sentenced to life without parole. By 2000, the conviction rate had dropped by nearly 55 percent (1,006), yet the percentage of children receiving LWOP sentences rose by 216 percent (to nine percent)." - It's just a fucked up system, unchecked, gone out of control. Or the über police doing whatever they want... Stonewalled : Police abuse and misconduct against lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people in the U.S. - If you give them all powers, don't check them, don't record them at all time, and even let them off due the the Judge/Police "Buddy System" like you see happen when all the black guys are beaten up or shot for no reason, then you end if without any law. It's really the Wild West, and completely disgusting. All they have to do is take you to a field and shoot you and come up with a bad reason why... Real countries do not have this, because the police are strictly controlled, video taped, and treated with extreme suspicion... We also fire and CHARGE officers for simply threatening a suspect, it's simply unacceptable. You guys let people stay a city Mayor when they express that thieves should "have their thumbs cut off"... Hey, that turned out to be a bit longer than I expected... Whatever... Isn't it comforting to know that other places have free healthcare, free education (inc. University), more respected education, unprecedented privacy and personal security laws (hell, it's even damn hard to get a phone tap - and, of course, a court order is always required - or even that IP record laws are wiped every 14 days - or that no one can save or sell your personal info); a legal system of checks and balances as opposed to lawyers controlling people, acting out extremities and getting off on loopholes; no torture or abuse, even humane prisons as everything is watched and checked in multiple ways; no starting wars and slaughtering innocent people (thank you for bringing up things several generation ago, but, in case you didn't know, Germany was being opressed and raped of all it's power and resources for many many years before WWII and that was the reason the people agreed with starting it - and you would, too, if you had a forced Depression from other countries, created under lies and pretenses just to steal your money); extremely low crime rates compared to the US; no fear of being attacked or mugged; the fact that no one owns weapons, so if you ARE mugged, the chance you'd get shot is VERY low - you hand over your wallet and you insurance replaces everything and that's that - they're not jumpy or afraid of you because they know you wouldn't waste a human life over 100$ - which would also be a crime; recreational drugs, alchohol, smoking, and prostitution are all non-issues; no ridiculous television censorship - you can show a normal nude body or say "fuck" at any time - Why couldn't you? Too afraid of LIFE?; free speech doesn't include hatred, same as it doesn't include shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre - sure you can have all the free speech you want, but gay bashing, slandar, or real harassment aren't protected; other countries have a real support and welfare system for those that need it - giving them a real chance and not just forcing them to work like slaves for a few pennies; unrestricted research as opposed to the US constantly fudging and stopping research, including personal research; the strictest environmental controls, that obviously don't hurt industry; an economy that is doing very well; no rightwing Christian fundamentalists - I don't know what they do over there, but over here Theology is a normal University study and one of the first things you learn is how to INTERPRET the bible as a philosophical guide and not to take things literally - plus there's something about being nice and non-judgemental or something; 1/8th of the deficit, and it's growing at a MUCH slower rate; and just the simple freedom to live freely, which you don't have in the US. They're even starting to restrict travel of ordinary citizens. "And the land of the free..." <- Yeah... Keep saying that...

Hey Beryl, WTF are you talking about? I thought there was not supposed to be any bashing of any nationality anywhere on this site. But you offended me, and some others by your comments about "American war crimes". Go back and research some of the things the Socialists, and Communists did in the name of freedom, and liberation like the shit done by the Pol Pot regime, the purges of the early Stalin regime of the Soviet Union, the quashed protests in China from 1940's on, and the things dome by Saddam, and his merry minions, like gassing innocent civilians with various rather nasty nerve agents. Oh yeah, i almost forgot, the 6,000,000+ innocent dead at the hands of the Nazis during WW2. It's a sad thing when an innocent life is ended because of an accident of war, but blame it on the US, and call it a war crime? Come on Beryl, you are much more intelligent than that.

Posted by greywolf45 "But everybody else is doing it so that makes it OK!!" <jumps up and down>

The offenses against humanity that you mention are, for the most part, over and done with - So while, of course, they should be known, they do not really have any relevance in reality at this point in time on this subject - The ones I mentioned are currently happening.

As for your taking offence - If you are offended at my opinions on the subject, then come to me; however there are few opinions stated by me in that piece - Most are simply easily verifiable facts - if you are offended at a statement of fact of actions of your country, then complain to yourself. Looking over the article a few times, and seeing as you didn't mention anything other than your offense at what you seem to consider "puny" offenses (compared to what have others have done) - You seem to be the one spouting opinion rather than fact...

Purposefully and indiscriminantly firebombing civilians is most certainly a hideous war crime, even moreso in a war fabricated on what has been shown to be false evidence and against a defenseless nation - it doesn't matter if only a single person is killed per incident (we are talking about a single incident out of many, currently) if you're purposefully dousing a random innocent with chemical incindiery weapons that shouldn't even be there. At once such offense against humanity, that is still a war crime, no matter if it is less than what others have done or not - that does not change the act. Such indiscriminant torture and murder of civilians is never required, nor acceptible. It most certainly doesn't matter if it's been done before, or if others have done it more or done worse, as you've therein already stooped to the lowest low there is - after that, the amount of deaths or abuses is only a statistic.

You're right, though, it is FAR FAR less then the Nazis or the Communists did - Even including many other incidents I can think of - But it's a hell of a good start, and you are already on the right track, plus you have lots of time to catch up. Or, instead, you could simply punish those involved in this incident and head more towards "civilized" than "Horrid and without respect for human life".

Posted by Beryl The offenses against humanity that you mention are, for the most part, over and done with - So while, of course, they should be known, they do not really have any relevance in reality at this point in time on this subject - The ones I mentioned are currently happening. As for your taking offence - If you are offended at my opinions on the subject, then come to me; however there are few opinions stated by me in that piece - Most are simply easily verifiable facts - if you are offended at a statement of fact of actions of your country, then complain to yourself. Looking over the article a few times, and seeing as you didn't mention anything other than your offense at what you seem to consider "puny" offenses (compared to what have others have done) - You seem to be the one spouting opinion rather than fact... Purposefully and indiscriminantly firebombing civilians is most certainly a hideous war crime, even moreso in a war fabricated on what has been shown to be false evidence and against a defenseless nation - it doesn't matter if only a single person is killed per incident (we are talking about a single incident out of many, currently) if you're purposefully dousing a random innocent with chemical incindiery weapons that shouldn't even be there. At once such offense against humanity, that is still a war crime, no matter if it is less than what others have done or not - that does not change the act. Such indiscriminant torture and murder of civilians is never required, nor acceptible. It most certainly doesn't matter if it's been done before, or if others have done it more or done worse, as you've therein already stooped to the lowest low there is - after that, the amount of deaths or abuses is only a statistic. You're right, though, it is FAR FAR less then the Nazis or the Communists did - Even including many other incidents I can think of - But it's a hell of a good start, and you are already on the right track, plus you have lots of time to catch up. Or, instead, you could simply punish those involved in this incident and head more towards "civilized" than "Horrid and without respect for human life".

You would make the perfect propagandist Beryl, you really would. And my name pasted to a quote i didn't make is so beneath you, i thought better of you. I stated facts, facts taken from captured documents, and interviews of citizens, and survivors. And Beryl, i did read over the articles in the links, but can you give me the links to the actual facts. I would like to see them for myself, especially the "Napalm", which was never used by the US, or any of her allies
as stated in articles.

And as i have stated before, i respect your opinion, i may not like what you say, but i do respect your opinion. But do me a favor, research the facts, and make sure they are accurate before posting them, and if you quote me again, please make sure the statement is on record here, so everyone can see it.

I have some sources that i can tap, and i will find out what in the hell is going on in the region mentioned. When i have the real facts, i'll post them for all to see, even you if you wish. Bash the U.S. all you wish. I know the real truth Beryl.
Peace, and long life to all.

P.S. Please do not paste my name to anymore untruths, as in your response to my reply. You seem to be an intelligent person, and shit like this is so beneath you.

Posted by greywolf45 Hey Beryl, WTF are you talking about? I thought there was not supposed to be any bashing of any nationality anywhere on this site.

Hey German Nazis were cocksuckers. Oops! Better call the police. I bashed a nationality!

Posted by greywolf45 But you offended me, and some others by your comments about "American war crimes".

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Posted by greywolf45 Go back and research some of the things the Socialists, and Communists did in the name of freedom, and liberation like the shit done by the Pol Pot regime, the purges of the early Stalin regime of the Soviet Union, the quashed protests in China from 1940's on, and the things dome by Saddam, and his merry minions, like gassing innocent civilians with various rather nasty nerve agents. Oh yeah, i almost forgot, the 6,000,000+ innocent dead at the hands of the Nazis during WW2. It's a sad thing when an innocent life is ended because of an accident of war, but blame it on the US, and call it a war crime? Come on Beryl, you are much more intelligent than that.

I'm pretty sure Beryl is aware of all that. So why don't you offer up something besides bitching.

Posted by ednothing Hey German Nazis were cocksuckers. Oops! Better call the police. I bashed a nationality! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! I'm pretty sure Beryl is aware of all that. So why don't you offer up something besides bitching.

Alright, you and Beryl have had your fun with poor old greywolf45 Ed.I may over-react, but that is my right. Despite whatever you, and Beryl may think of me, a fact of which i could care less, i do respect everyone's opinion of things. I may not like it, but you have the right to say what you think, as do all of us here Ed. So rip me to shreads, if that makes you, and Beryl better.

Posted by Beryl Purposefully and indiscriminantly firebombing civilians is most certainly a hideous war crime, even moreso in a war fabricated on what has been shown to be false evidence and against a defenseless nation - it doesn't matter if only a single person is killed per incident (we are talking about a single incident out of many, currently) if you're purposefully dousing a random innocent with chemical incindiery weapons that shouldn't even be there.

I am very late to the discussion here but this is way out of line.
I could explain the technicalities regarding the employment of WP rounds and why we use them but I doubt you would listen.
Let me state this as clearly and unequivocally as I can:
THE US DOES NOT FIRE-BOMB CIVILIANS NOR DO WE 'DOUSE RANDOM INNOCENTS WITH CHEMICAL INCINDIARY WEAPONS.'
Sorry but we no longer have napalm in warstock either.
In the spring of 2004 my unit accidentally fired a 155mm artillery round into an adjacent populated area. Within minutes we had medics on scene and we pay for the damage we caused - yes, we pay for the damage we cause. It was a big deal. The officer in charge of the gun section was relieved.
We conduct ourselves honorably despite what you may have been fed.
It is fine to dislike the administration and its politics (do not think that many in uniform would argue with you at this point!) but do not pour such vitriol on the men and women who are the pawns in a failed foreign policy.

Posted by DevilC Let me state this as clearly and unequivocally as I can: THE US DOES NOT FIRE-BOMB CIVILIANS NOR DO WE 'DOUSE RANDOM INNOCENTS WITH CHEMICAL INCINDIARY WEAPONS.'

Not purposefully. But it does happen...'accidents' in war being what they are and all..

Sorry but we no longer have napalm in warstock either.

Who needs napalm when you've got these:

http://www.fas.org...s/dumb/cluster.htm

Exactly - ACCIDENTS - do happen. You are right.
It is unfortunate and it is sad.
We are a professional military and take great care, exposing ourselves to greater danger, to protect life and property.
Cluster bombs have a very specific purpose. Neither do we use these on civilians. Sadly the submunitions have a small failure rate and you end up with live munitions scattered about for people and farm animals to kick around. Blame the defense industry that builds us this crap - we do not like being sent to war with garbage either.

Posted by DevilC Exactly - ACCIDENTS - do happen. You are right. It is unfortunate and it is sad. We are a professional military and take great care, exposing ourselves to greater danger, to protect life and property. Cluster bombs have a very specific purpose. Neither do we use these on civilians.

Semantics. 'Civilian' is a another word for 'non-military target.'

Sadly the submunitions have a small failure rate and you end up with live munitions scattered about for people and farm animals to kick around.

Especially when these bomblets are brightly painted and look like children's toys.

Blame the defense industry that builds us this crap...

I'd rather blame the idiot who keeps ordering more of them for the field.