Posted by bandi ...so a baby seal walks into a club

...yer killing me.

This is why I don't eat veal:

click to view

Sorry if thats a bit graphic, but its the truth

your point?
death is never pretty.
I used to live next to a farm... i filled my freezer with many a cow that i had petted and called Betsy.
Sure it's graphic, but what did anyone expect? Honestly, what were you expecting when it came to the final end use of a cow? A petting zoo? A cartoon series? Or just live out life in a field?
If you think that's graphic, check out how a chicken or pig dies.
that's fucking graphic.

I had chicken for dinner... yummy.

...and ironically, if farm animals were allowed to have more rights and protections it would be humans that starve as a result of the lack of meat production.

Fedge, your post has got me thinking. Imagine what would happen should all infrastructure fail here in the United States and Canada. Imagine if you couldn't buy all your food in a supermarket or store. What would you do then?

Posted by monster This is why I don't eat veal:

Do you realize what animals used for fur go through? I know, I know, you only wear used fur or fake fur, so it's like a protest or something. Plus, chinchillas and rabbits and minks just aren't as cute as baby cows!

Almost any time an animal is killed for industry, it suffers. Either before the actual killing or during it or both.

Posted by SaraBellum Do you realize what animals used for fur go through? I know, I know, you only wear used fur or fake fur, so it's like a protest or something. Plus, chinchillas and rabbits and minks just aren't as cute as baby cows! Almost any time an animal is killed for industry, it suffers. Either before the actual killing or during it or both.

i love steak
and my leather jacket

Posted by Samurai Fedge, your post has got me thinking. Imagine what would happen should all infrastructure fail here in the United States and Canada. Imagine if you couldn't buy all your food in a supermarket or store. What would you do then?

Exactly. I'm not really for or against either "side" in this debate as the main fact of life is that there will be survivors and there'll be those that are killed. I'm just glad I'm in the "suvivors" category.

It's okay to eat fish because they don't have any feelings.

We eat cows, fish, chicken, etc. because we're superior.
We are (for the most part) at the top of the food chain.
Do you think sharks care how much pain we're in when they take a bite?
Absolutely not.

To quote my God, Maddox:
"For every animal you don't eat, I'll eat three."

I mean, that's cool if you don't eat meat or wear fur, but the rest of us are no lesser because we do.
(And for the record, I love animals, but they also happen to be tasty beside my veggies and carbs.)

lexi is awesome.

We need to eat, so I'll agree with everyone who said that killing animals for that is ok..
But for tacky fur coats? Give me a break... I don't support people killing animals just so that they think they look fucking special in a fur coat...

My husband used to work catching chickens back in the day, and he would tell me stories about how on some farms, on average, 10 chickens are stuck in one tiny cage left to fight and compete for food. On other farms, each chicken has their own cage, and the cage is usually the size of a laptop computer (length and width wise). Sometimes chickens would die and rot in a cage and be left there with the other living chickens.
When the chicken catchers went about catching the chickens, the chickens would be let loose in a dark barn-like building and then all the catchers would just go around grabbing them by the legs. Grabbing chickens by the legs almost immediately breaks their legs. So imagine being stuck in a a cage the length and width of a laptop, not being able to walk around, spread their wings, etc. That's sad.
Luckily, the Humane Society in the states has began a campaign getting farm owners to stop using these small cages to house chickens and instead, let all the chickens roam free in an open barn.

Do you realize what animals used for fur go through? I know, I know, you only wear used fur or fake fur, so it's like a protest or something. Plus, chinchillas and rabbits and minks just aren't as cute as baby cows!

I used to be extemely anti-fur and was involved with Peta. I know the dirty secrets of the Chinese fur farms. I would go around telling people how evil fur was, but I became the very thing I tried to destroy. I think Peta turned me off to them because they were so extreme. I started wearing fake fur, and then real (but used). It horribly pisses me off when animal rights activists throw paint on people's fur coats because then the animals truly did die for nothing.
Naomi campbell was a spokeswoman for Peta, but she got fired because she started wearing fur. She said she did it because Peta was too extreme. similar to why I started wearing fur. Weird how things happen: anti-fur to ordering a second fur coat off of ebay...

peta is more than "too extreme". There's a lot of hypocrisy in there as well.

Posted by monster I used to be extemely anti-fur and was involved with Peta. I know the dirty secrets of the Chinese fur farms. I would go around telling people how evil fur was, but I became the very thing I tried to destroy. I think Peta turned me off to them because they were so extreme. I started wearing fake fur, and then real (but used). It horribly pisses me off when animal rights activists throw paint on people's fur coats because then the animals truly did die for nothing. Naomi campbell was a spokeswoman for Peta, but she got fired because she started wearing fur. She said she did it because Peta was too extreme. similar to why I started wearing fur. Weird how things happen: anti-fur to ordering a second fur coat off of ebay...

I'm no PETA fan by any means, but to say you're no longer anti-fur because of them is like saying you're no longer a Christian because of Westboro Baptist Church. If what you hold dear can be influenced by what Naomi Campbell (or any celebrity, for that matter), then your dedication didn't run too deep to begin with.

If you want to eat meat or wear fur, go for it. However, attacking someone for eating veal while you're wearing a fur coat is hypocritical.

In some countries the animals they make fur out of are used for dogfood and often people food. Primarily rabbits, but minks and other rodents are as well.
Especially in some of the third world countries. It doesn't bother me to wear fur because in a good many of the cases, something or someone is eating the remains.
My whole issue with PETA is the euthanization of animals "for their own good" when there's nothing wrong with the animal in the first place...and what, pray tell, does PETA do with the carcasses? They stick them in a 10,000 square foot freezer because they don't want people finding them in their garbage.
Now, for an organization that preaches animal rights...this bothers the fuck out of me. They're no better than the local state or county run/funded animal shelters...which they try to distance themselves from.
The whole terrorism thing just makes my blood run cold. PETA had two known "terrorists" who were known for destroying medical testing facilities on their fucking payroll. Both of these gentlemen were also employed by PETA as spokesmen and allowed to go into schools around the country preaching for the PETA cause. Now who's kidding who here?
I'm all for treating animals ethically and not doing them any harm unless something good can come of it, specifically something to advance human kind or animal kind, in the ideal of medicine that is, but these people are just plain crazy.
Animals are not anthropomorphic, they have intelligence and cognition, but we don't know for sure if they even think other than instinct.
I know, this is an argument for another time, but we've anthropomorphisized them so much that we think of the cute and fuzzy bunny of having feelings other than the need to eat, breed and shit.
Anyway, that's my rant for the day.
Oh, one more thing...do you know how they normally kill cattle? Well, at least they used to do it this way.
They have a device, it's basically a metal pole inside of a metal pole...into the end of it, they put a shotgun shell..they push the inner pole towards the shell and detonate it up against the head of a cow and basically it's a gunshot without all the noise and the click of the cocking of the hammer of the shotgun because the noise causes the animals to tense up and the meat to become tough. I grew up on a farm, until my father died. We had pigs, cattle and sheep. I remember that one device, it wasn't pretty, but it did the job. We ate a lot of home raised pork and beef, my parent's weren't much on lamb or mutton, so we just sheared those for extra cash.

Shael

PETA lost my sympathies when it was discovered they fund activist groups and that they kill truckloads of "overflow" unwanted pets.

Posted by Shael Animals are not anthropomorphic, they have intelligence and cognition, but we don't know for sure if they even think other than instinct. I know, this is an argument for another time, but we've anthropomorphisized them so much that we think of the cute and fuzzy bunny of having feelings other than the need to eat, breed and shit.

There's significant evidence that animals do exhibit a large range of emotions. From elephants mourning their relatives to crows sliding down a ramp over and over just for fun. A great book on this is When Elephants Weep: The Emotional Lives of Animals by Jeffrey Moussaieff Masson.

Posted by SaraBellum There's significant evidence that animals do exhibit a large range of emotions. From elephants mourning their relatives to crows sliding down a ramp over and over just for fun. A great book on this is When Elephants Weep: The Emotional Lives of Animals by Jeffrey Moussaieff Masson.

I'm sure there is...but we project a lot of things onto them that aren't really there.
I'm not saying that they don't have emotions, what I'm saying is we project a lot of human qualities on them that they don't possess. That's just part of being human. We project a lot of our own thoughts and feelings onto an animals behavior.

Shael