I am in the process of getting a restricted license to carry in Massachusetts, and the regulations are ridiculous. The restricted license to carry is the minimum license needed to own a pistol, and it will only allow you to transport firearms to a target range. The law requires that you take a seven hour safety course in guns and maintain an expensive membership at a gun club, which I find insulting and fascist. Every single responsible gun owner is familiar with that core tenets of gun safety: treat all guns as loaded, never point it at anything you would not want to shoot, keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot; and this does not take seven hours to teach. The person that needs a seven hour course in gun safety should not be let near a gun.

What makes me the most angry is that I know that these laws are put into place to simply make life inconvenient for people that want to possess guns. The people who want guns banned know that they cannot get legislation passed to do so, so they instead just try to make owning guns as costly and time consuming as possible. This is how children act, this not how laws should be written. I want to live in an adult society where if it is my right to own firearms, provided I have no criminal record nor history of mental disorders, I should be able to do so without spending hundreds of dollars and blowing a weekend and multiple work days on the application process. I have a job, I pay my taxes, I have no criminal record, it should not be easier for criminals to get guns illegally than for me to do so legally.

its all red tape ...Politic bullshit put in by people who have no experience or input on the subject. God Damn this country

There is red tape involved with getting a drivers license too. I have no problem with red tape when it come to the operation of something that could easily mow down numerous people at once, such as a gun or a car.

That is a great analogy, Argonian!!

And becoming a doctor or a lawyer requires ALL KINDS of bullshit that I shouldn't have to deal with. I want to live in a big boy world where I can be a doctor because I WANT to.

In Arizona they let anybody carry a gun who wants to carry a gun as long as it's not concealed. You hardly ever hear about gun crimes. Most people forget that guns don't kill people. The person who pulls the trigger is the killer.

Posted by Seventh Stage I am in the process of getting a restricted license to carry in Massachusetts, and the regulations are ridiculous. The restricted license to carry is the minimum license needed to own a pistol, and it will only allow you to transport firearms to a target range. The law requires that you take a seven hour safety course in guns and maintain an expensive membership at a gun club, which I find insulting and fascist. Every single responsible gun owner is familiar with that core tenets of gun safety: treat all guns as loaded, never point it at anything you would not want to shoot, keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot; and this does not take seven hours to teach. The person that needs a seven hour course in gun safety should not be let near a gun. What makes me the most angry is that I know that these laws are put into place to simply make life inconvenient for people that want to possess guns. The people who want guns banned know that they cannot get legislation passed to do so, so they instead just try to make owning guns as costly and time consuming as possible. This is how children act, this not how laws should be written. I want to live in an adult society where if it is my right to own firearms, provided I have no criminal record nor history of mental disorders, I should be able to do so without spending hundreds of dollars and blowing a weekend and multiple work days on the application process. I have a job, I pay my taxes, I have no criminal record, it should not be easier for criminals to get guns illegally than for me to do so legally.

So to sum up your 2 paragraphs, Gun safety courses are for stupid pussies, and 7 hours is an excessive amount of time to spend getting a firearms license. Let me tell you, That's a very short period of time in comparison with other courses necessary for other licenses.

Posted by Seventh Stage This is how children act, this not how laws should be written. I want to live in an adult society where if it is my right to own firearms

I am reading your response as childish. Seriously? "Wah wah wah I wanna play with my guns NOW!!!" I think it is irresponsible to fall back on a document that was created a long time ago, when things were a lot different. As you are already starting to feel, a lot of people don't feel this right is relevant anymore and are trying to push it away. I also believe gun owners badly need this 7 hour course, as there seems to be a lot of unintentional gun mishaps happening, especially with children. Maybe you don't need it, but this doesn't mean others don't. Lastly, where else would you need to carry your gun to, besides the shooting range?

A question: If you're insulted at having to maintain a membership at a gun club in order to hold a license, and the license you're getting only permits you to transport the weapon to a gun club... what's your motivation in getting the license in the first place?

Posted by metawaffle A question: If you're insulted at having to maintain a membership at a gun club in order to hold a license, and the license you're getting only permits you to transport the weapon to a gun club... what's your motivation in getting the license in the first place?

Posted by Seventh Stage I am in the process of getting a restricted license to carry in Massachusetts, and the regulations are ridiculous. The restricted license to carry is the minimum license needed to own a pistol, and it will only allow you to transport firearms to a target range. The law requires that you take a seven hour safety course in guns and maintain an expensive membership at a gun club, which I find insulting and fascist. Every single responsible gun owner is familiar with that core tenets of gun safety: treat all guns as loaded, never point it at anything you would not want to shoot, keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot; and this does not take seven hours to teach. The person that needs a seven hour course in gun safety should not be let near a gun. What makes me the most angry is that I know that these laws are put into place to simply make life inconvenient for people that want to possess guns. The people who want guns banned know that they cannot get legislation passed to do so, so they instead just try to make owning guns as costly and time consuming as possible. This is how children act, this not how laws should be written. I want to live in an adult society where if it is my right to own firearms, provided I have no criminal record nor history of mental disorders, I should be able to do so without spending hundreds of dollars and blowing a weekend and multiple work days on the application process. I have a job, I pay my taxes, I have no criminal record, it should not be easier for criminals to get guns illegally than for me to do so legally.

He's angry, frustrated, and feels that society is childish and needs a lesson in grown-up responsibility.

I await the shocking morning headlines...



OH YEAH... I'm clinically depressed...should this prevent me from owning a gun?

Posted by argonian There is red tape involved with getting a drivers license too. I have no problem with red tape when it come to the operation of something that could easily mow down numerous people at once, such as a gun or a car.

Some process to get a firearm is reasonable, just like with a drivers license. Like a drivers license though, passing the requirements in one state should carry over to another state as well. Rhode Island has you take a written test in gun safety that you can take at a gun store, which will get you a blue card in a couple of weeks. I have no problem with that, nor the background check to show I am not a criminal nor an adjudicated nut-job. My aggravation is that people who do not like guns have tacked on all sorts of unreasonable, costly and time-consuming requirements for something that is supposed to be our right. What is worse is that for things like unrestricted conceal and carry, it is much easier for government officials to get them than regular citizens.

You sound very angry about all of this.

I sure am glad you don't have a gun.

Posted by hydrotherapy You sound very angry about all of this. I sure am glad you don't have a gun.

To paraphrase Homer Simpson:

"Seven hours?! But I'm angry now!"

Posted by Seventh Stagetreat all guns as loaded, never point it at anything you would not want to shoot, keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot; and this does not take seven hours to teach. The person that needs a seven hour course in gun safety should not be let near a gun.

You forgot the "keep the safety on" rule, but I agree. With a seven hour course I would hope that they could cover pistols, rifles, rpgs, claymores, landmines, grenades and mortars.

Sounds like DC, where supreme court ruled that they had to allow their citizens to register handguns, so the local government required the guns to be disassembled or trigger-locked, and only revolvers were allowed. It is indeed childish and offensive that they should enforce the laws that they are not allowed to enforce through legalistic dancing. It'd be like saying "You have the right to drive your car" but adding "buying gasoline is a crime".

And yeah, gun safety courses are for stupid pussies. They make the stupid pussy masses feel safer. Isn't the unthinking populace great? And while seven hours may be a long time for a gun license, how much time did you spend on your alcohol license? Would you like to guess which is tied to more yearly deaths at a ratio of over 2:1 (5:1 excluding suicide)?

If owning the gun is important enough to you, the course isn't a big deal. If the course and license requirements are so aggrevating that you just refuse to participate... then by all means, buy a gun illegally, run the risk of getting caught, and become permanently banned from owning any firearms.

You still haven't anwsered the question... why own a handgun if you do not want to belong to a gun club? What would you do with the gun?

Posted by MindHacker And while seven hours may be a long time for a gun license, how much time did you spend on your alcohol license? Would you like to guess which is tied to more yearly deaths at a ratio of over 2:1 (5:1 excluding suicide)?

I'd like to know how many of these alcohol related deaths are vehicle-related. If my suspicions are correct, a lot of them are, and people spend much more than 7 hours getting their drivers license.

Posted by argonian There is red tape involved with getting a drivers license too. I have no problem with red tape when it come to the operation of something that could easily mow down numerous people at once, such as a gun or a car.

truth.

Guns are dangerous, i dont care how "responsible" you think you are. Just because you are, doesnt mean everyone else is. Shut up about the bullshit you have to go through, because i'm sure you'd be advocating for it if someone in your family got murdered by an idiot with a gun that they were able to get too easily.

Posted by Nvr2loud If owning the gun is important enough to you, the course isn't a big deal. If the course and license requirements are so aggrevating that you just refuse to participate... then by all means, buy a gun illegally, run the risk of getting caught, and become permanently banned from owning any firearms. You still haven't anwsered the question... why own a handgun if you do not want to belong to a gun club? What would you do with the gun?

I want to possess the gun primarily for self defense, meaning that if someone breaks into my house at night they will find themselves at the business end of one of my guns. I also happen to like firearms, I first started using them in Boy Scouts many years ago and have always appreciated their construction and am a pretty good shot. Massachusetts does not have any provisions for self defense, so I have to get a license for target shooting.

I do not like the fact that my state government mandates that I pay a local business $315 for the first year and $125 for subsequent years to exercise a right guaranteed to me to me in the US constitution. I am not trying to stand up on a soapbox and throw out platitudes but I think it really boils down to that.

The course may not seem like a big deal, but what would you think if your state government mandated you to submit an application one week in advance before attending a protest, otherwise you would be arrested? One piece of paper does not sound like much, but I think most people would reject this on principle since it peripherally curtails free speech.

So to sum up your 2 paragraphs, Gun safety courses are for stupid pussies, and 7 hours is an excessive amount of time to spend getting a firearms license. Let me tell you, That's a very short period of time in comparison with other courses necessary for other licenses.

No, I said that excessive safety courses are mandated by pussies. I, like other gun owners I have met, advocate safety as paramount and take the simple aforementioned approach to it. This is because complex safety is easier to mess up, and messing up safety with firearms is unacceptable.

To relate this to the car analogy, I am for the use of seatbelts, but I think requiring six point restraints and fire suppression systems for every car is excessive.

Guns are dangerous, i dont care how "responsible" you think you are. Just because you are, doesnt mean everyone else is. Shut up about the bullshit you have to go through, because i'm sure you'd be advocating for it if someone in your family got murdered by an idiot with a gun that they were able to get too easily.

If you watch Penn and Teller's Bullshit on firearms there's a nice piece with a Texas politician that had her parents murdered in front of her by a madman with a gun. It was in a restaurant, and she had a legally owned pistol and a conceal and carry. Unfortunately the law mandated she keep it in her car while in restaurants and like a typical gun owner she obeyed the law. Because of that she is hateful of the laws that prevented her from defending her family from someone who did not care to follow the law.

Also I have owned several guns for many years, I am just now going through the process of bringing them to my Massachusetts residence.

Posted by Seventh Stage something that is supposed to be our right.

By the way, what is the name of your well regulated militia?

Posted by Tyralus I'd like to know how many of these alcohol related deaths are vehicle-related. If my suspicions are correct, a lot of them are, and people spend much more than 7 hours getting their drivers license.

70,000 alc-related deaths (some sources say 100K), of which
17,000 are drunk-driving deaths in 2005 or summat

And in 1998, for guns:
Assault 12,228
Suicide 17,605
Accidents 875
Total 30,708

I woulda found matching years, but I don't care that much. I also think that the required classes for driving a car are BS too. its like 20hours classroom, 8hours with an instructor, and 60 hours with your parents. Whatever, give them a driving test, if they pass, they can drive, if not, they can't. I'd also make it a bit harder than it is now, throw mannequins out in the road at them and maintain a slick spot for skids... but I admit that's a fantasy.