Okay, a close friend of mine, with whom I hung out yesterday, is dating a guy who has no job, no car, nor a license to drive one, and is of dubious fixed address. Currently, his only source of income is borrowing money from friends, and he seems kind of nonchalant about his unemployment, and isn't making much effort in finding a job so that he can stay in the area. He's also bossy, a bit arrogant, and condescending.

Last night, while my friend and I were taking a walk near her family's house, he called her three times, all of the conversations resulting in arguments, during which he asked her to bring alcohol when she came back, whined about how difficult it is to get a job, and called me a "retard" and accused her of cheating on him with me (she's not). He also told her that he was jealous that she was hanging out with me. A couple of times it got to the point where she told him to get out of her apartment and get his roommate from Rochester to pick him up and take him back, and said to him, "It's my apartment, my rules. If you don't like it, get the f*** out." During a fourth conversation that they apparently had after we got back to her family's place, he claimed that he was raving and behaving the way that he did because he's bipolar. Whether or not he's telling the truth, I don't know. At one point during one of these conversations, he apparently also suggested that he'd hang himself if she broke up with him, to which she said that she told him to do what he needed to do. When I dropped her off back at her place, I told her that if there was anything that she needed, not to hesitate to give me a call.

Anyway, those arguments really upset her, and I felt kind of helpless, because any interference on my part would have only made it worse. It's no secret that I'm not particularly fond of the man, and it seems that he has no love of me, either. They've since apparently made up, at least for now, as she's still going to Cleveland with him this coming weekend, where he's going to play a show (he's an industrial noise musician who goes by Praying for Oblivion).

My friend has a self-admitted history of dating losers or guys who otherwise aren't right for her, and I'm pretty sure that this guy is just another addition to that list. It really hurts to see this happening to her again, so, what do I do? She didn't learn her lesson with all of the other guys, so I don't think that's going to happen here, either. Do I just keep letting her know that I'm there for her, and watch this impending train wreck happen from a safe distance, or should I get proactive in some way? I'm really at a loss.

Posted in the WTF thread...

Now, here's a WTF to the max. She just posted this on MySpace...

Date: Mar 16, 2009 6:09 AM
Subject: I'm Getting Married
Body: send me money and stuff - cause we'll need it.


marriage is a time for celebration so fucking buy us shit.


thanks
<3
tink


WWWWW
TTTTT
FFFFF

Seriously.

How long was she dating dirtbag for?

Is she hot?

Posted by ActionSatisfaction Esq. How long was she dating dirtbag for?

She's been dating him since February 22. In other words, not even a full month.

Posted by MutantMandias Is she hot?

I think that she is.

Shawn--- on feeling helpless: Welcome to being the friend of a woman who chooses terrible men. It is a horrible, painful, long process that 75% of the time results in YOU deciding you can't be her friend, anymore.

After going through several of those relationships myself, after losing countless friends, after becoming a domestic violence advocate and volunteering at the women's shelter... All I can tell you is this: She will leave when she is damn well good and ready.

The best thing you can do is be there for her, otherwise. And ask her therapist-y questions (questions that make her THINK about whether the situation is bad, without YOU sounding like you're judging).

And DO NOT fall into the most dangerous trap. She'll be in a fight, telling you how shitty he is, how she should leave him, and then YOU say something like, "Yeah, he is a piece of shit. You should totally leave that loser."

.......And then she and he will make up. But it won't take away the fact that you said that her man is a piece of shit and a loser. She will inevitably disappear from your life at that point, only to return when she calls you on the day she ACTUALLY leaves him, or when you read her obituary in the paper.

I couldn't say it any better than Emma just did. She's absolutely right, on all counts.

This girl has bigger problems than you can solve. Just try to be a good friend (which probably will end if she gets married because psycho-hubby won't allow it)

Thanks Emma and Debi. I talked with her in person yesterday, and she indicated to me that the marriage thing was more of a fanciful idea than anything else. Just to make sure that remained the case, I told her that it confused the heck out of a mutual friend and I, and that it had surprised me because it was incongruous with her own views on relationships, and reminded her why. She'd made comments recently on MySpace that said something along the lines of that she was frustrated with people who don't take relationships seriously, and those who rush into marriage, which she feels is largely responsible for the high rate of divorce in this country. She gave a little smile and looked thoughtful after I made that comment, so she'll hopefully heed her own words.

My friend has more immediate fish to fry, anyway. Her landlord confronted her on Monday about the fact that her boyfriend has been living with her, and as of midday yesterday, she had a day and a half to get her boyfriend out of her apartment before the landlord evicted her. Technically speaking, the lease apparently states that just one person should be occupying the apartment, but she feels that she has leverage for negotiation because the landlord has already violated a couple of established tenants' rights laws and may be in violation of the lease himself. She's considered hiring an attorney, but I reminded her that my mother is a social worker, and might know other places that she could go to for help, and I was right. I texted my mother's suggestions to her, for which she texted back to tell her thank you. Hopefully, she'll be able to make use of them. Honestly, though, I'd like to know why he isn't living with a friend in the area while he uh, looks for a job, like he was originally going to do. I don't think that he'd be putting her in this situation if he cares as much as he claims.

Anyway, that's where it stands right now.

Edit: Photos for reference, taken on the night of March 6/early morning March 7...

My friend and her boyfriend, who was annoyed that I cut the top of his hair off in this photo.




My friend and I on the same night.




Friend and boyfriend again, with him not looking like a deer in headlights, as seems to be the norm in photos.

Seems you care for her an awful lot; how come you two never "tried it out"?

Or, have you . . . . .

Posted by Debi Seems you care for her an awful lot; how come you two never "tried it out"? Or, have you . . . . .

Erm, I was going to keep this out, just so as not to confuse the issue or bring my motivations into question, but since you asked...

I was almost instantly comfortable with her, and that happens with very few people I meet. After we hung out one night in February, I realized just how comfortable I felt, and began thinking about asking her out, but it took me a couple of days to actually make the decision to do so. I even asked some questions that night to feel out the situation, such as, "How's your love life?", to which she quietly, in a slightly embarrassed tone, responded, "Up and down." The last time that I dated a friend, close or otherwise, we were in a relationship for several months, during which time the friendship part almost totally disintegrated, and I ended up losing both the friendship and the relationship in one fell swoop. I didn't want that to happen again.

Literally an hour or so after I decided that I was going to take the chance, I noticed that her relationship status on MySpace had just been changed from "single" to "in a relationship". I became really upset and depressed for a few days before she and I talked on the phone (she called me), where I told her that I'd planned on asking her out. She seemed rather surprised, and her response was slightly insensitive, but in retrospect, I'm not insulted by that, because of said surprise and how she reacts to other things. I later gave her a detailed description of why I'd been so upset, which she appreciated.

Anyway, she's still with that guy, and with her mindset, she doesn't seem to register my revelation a few weeks ago of wanting to ask her out with the idea that I might still be attracted to her. The fact is, I'm more attracted to her than ever, so it's both my strong sense of loyalty as a friend and the fact that I don't want to bring my motives into question that are making me play this close to the vest right now.

She's incredibly intelligent, has a great smile and an awesome laugh, and exquisite taste in music. Habits and attitudes that her family and some friends find to be annoying or rude, I find to be hilarious. Her MySpace posts are some of the most intellectually stimulating things that I've had the pleasure of reading, and she's really made me question some stuff, which I consider to be good. She's strong-willed, and isn't afraid to speak her mind. Aside from the fact that I can't read her as well as I'd like, I can't find anything that I dislike about her, and we have a great rapport. She's really everything that I'd want in a woman. Oh, and her parents seem to like me, so that's always a good thing.

However, she is first and foremost a friend, so I've just done my best to be her friend, but it hurts to watch this, and think that if I'd been just a little faster, she might be with me instead of her current boyfriend. Still, if things really do end up working between them, or I simply don't fit into her relationship plans, it'll be a little difficult, but I'll accept it.

So, now you know the whole picture.

Well, I think I did know "part" of the picture even before you made your last post.

How? Because I could clearly read what this woman meant to you right from the beginning. You sound smitten with her, and it really sucks that she could have a seemingly great guy like you, instead . . . . .

But hey, so many things can happen. Right now I'm in a relationship with someone who was nothing but my friend for years. He said he always wanted more, but I never felt that way about him.

Years later, we both found ourselves single and I thought I'd give it a try. I'd been burnt pretty bad and knew there wasn't going to be any surprises with this guy; I knew him so well.

So with that being said, maybe this guy will put her heart through the ringer and she'll realize that what she may be looking for has been right there all along.

*keeps fingers crossed for you*!

Posted by Debi Well, I think I did know "part" of the picture even before you made your last post. How? Because I could clearly read what this woman meant to you right from the beginning. You sound smitten with her, and it really sucks that she could have a seemingly great guy like you, instead . . . . .

I know that I wear my heart on my sleeve, but was I really THAT obvious? Wow. Thanks for the vote of confidence. Everyone who I've told about this has expressed their support, save for one person, who has yet to say anything. We'll see what happens. One thing that I know for certain is that if and when the opportunity arises, I'm not going to squander it.

Oh, and I'm happy to hear that things have worked out so far between you and your friend-turned-boyfriend.

Just because I picked up on it, doesn't mean it was blatant. I've just always had a "thing" for figuring out when someone is interested in somebody else.

Well, at least she knows you had interest. Maybe she'll keep it in the back of her mind. But when you say her response was "insensitive", what did you mean?

Your role in this is going to have to be patience. But I wouldn't stop looking around in the mean time. Like they say, some people miss the door that opens for them when another closes, because they spend too much time staring at the closed door.

Or something like that, LOL!

Posted by Shawn W. I know that I wear my heart on my sleeve, but was I really THAT obvious? Wow.

Yeah, the subject "Close friend dating a potential problem guy" pretty much gave it away.

Posted by Debi Just because I picked up on it, doesn't mean it was blatant. I've just always had a "thing" for figuring out when someone is interested in somebody else. Well, at least she knows you had interest. Maybe she'll keep it in the back of her mind. But when you say her response was "insensitive", what did you mean? Your role in this is going to have to be patience. But I wouldn't stop looking around in the mean time. Like they say, some people miss the door that opens for them when another closes, because they spend too much time staring at the closed door. Or something like that, LOL!

When I told her, she said something like, "Well, there are a lot of other women out there," in a somewhat neutral tone, to which I replied, "It's not that easy." I elaborated on that in the message before the one in which I described why I'd been so upset, telling her that for a girl like her, it's easy to meet guys, but for a guy like me, if it was easy to meet girls with whom I was compatible, I'd have had more than three girlfriends in my life, Yes, just three. There may be plenty of fish in the sea, but very few are palatable to me.

A mutual friend with whom I'm talking right now is worried that I'm obsessed with this. I assured them that if I were obsessed, I'd be stalking her, and I wouldn't be dealing with my feelings in a healthy manner by talking them out. There's no sense in doing anything that would irreparably damage the already established friendship, which would, of course, also negate the possibility of anything more than that, so our mutual friend needn't worry too much.

At the moment, there are no other romantic prospects, but I will keep the "open doors" in mind.

Posted by Shawn W. When I told her, she said something like, "Well, there are a lot of other women out there," in a somewhat neutral tone, to which I replied, "It's not that easy." I elaborated on that in the message before the one in which I described why I'd been so upset, telling her that for a girl like her, it's easy to meet guys, but for a guy like me, if it was easy to meet girls with whom I was compatible, I'd have had more than three girlfriends in my life, Yes, just three. There may be plenty of fish in the sea, but very few are palatable to me. A mutual friend with whom I'm talking right now is worried that I'm obsessed with this. I assured them that if I were obsessed, I'd be stalking her, and I wouldn't be dealing with my feelings in a healthy manner by talking them out. There's no sense in doing anything that would irreparably damage the already established friendship, which would, of course, also negate the possibility of anything more than that, so our mutual friend needn't worry too much. At the moment, there are no other romantic prospects, but I will keep the "open doors" in mind.

I'm going to have to side with this mutual friend of yours. Your obsession with this girl is clear. The essay long rants are proof enough of that. But posting photos of her and him on a random internet forum? Would she be pissed if she saw this thread? Because if I was this poor girl I'd run screaming as fast as I could away from you... forget the loser boyfriend.

The simple and sane solution to this "catastrophe" is to back off, mind your own business, and don't make "friends" with women if you can't keep your feelings in check. And if that fails, don't be a snivelling creep when she decides to date some guy. You're friend-zoned and she's not interested, deal with it.

The freeloading boyfriend is pretty harmless, sounds like a fickle relationship and she'll kick him to the curb soon anyways. Or not. Regardless, it's none of your business.



/modified for comedic relief.

You kinda look like Stephen King.

Posted by Monst I'm going to have to side with this mutual friend of yours. Your obsession with this girl is clear. The essay long rants are proof enough of that. But posting photos of her and him on a random internet forum? Would she be pissed if she saw this thread? Because if I was this poor girl I'd run screaming as fast as I could away from you... forget the loser boyfriend. The simple and sane solution to this "catastrophe" is to back off, mind your own business, and don't make "friends" with women if you can't keep your feelings in check. And if that fails, don't be a snivelling creep when she decides to date some guy. You're friend-zoned and she's not interested, deal with it. The freeloading boyfriend is pretty harmless, sounds like a fickle relationship and she'll kick him to the curb soon anyways. Or not. Regardless, it's none of your business.

Yeah, I texted the aforementioned mutual friend earlier today, and told them that they were right, and asked them how I could take my mind off of this. Their response wasn't especially helpful, but it did make me laugh.

As for the posting of the pictures, no, she probably wouldn't be upset, as I have them posted on MySpace, all of which she's added to her own galleries. Oh, and I'm definitely backing off of this for now. I was going to ask her if she and her boyfriend wanted a ride out to a club event that I'm attending tonight, as she expressed interest in it when we hung out on Sunday, but since she hasn't yet responded to my last text, which I made a couple of days ago, asking if the landlord situation had been handled, there doesn't seem to be much point in contacting her again until she decides to get back to me. She will when she will. I would, however, like to get my graphic novel of "The Crow" back, at some point.

Oh, and heh, thanks for the comic. It does put things in perspective, but I'm not quite like the comic guy, as the only things that I've said about her boyfriend have been honest observations, most of which have been backed up by her own observations or his own admissions. If he eventually hangs himself with the amount of slack that she's cutting him, that's his business. Lastly, I'd never ask anyone to compromise their feelings or just settle for comfort. If this relationship ends, and I ask her out, but she decides that I'm not what she's looking for, or even if the relationship doesn't end, then that's that. I've never forced myself on anyone, and I don't plan on starting now, and besides, I certainly wouldn't get the kind of relationship that I'd want by doing that.

Posted by ActionSatisfaction Esq. You kinda look like Stephen King.

You're at least the fourth person to say that, and the third to say it in relation to that specific photo. I guess that I should be flattered, eh?

So, my friend got back to me via e-mail. It turns out that she lost her phone, and with it all of the numbers, which is why she hadn't returned my call or texts, so we're good.

Edit: I just got off of the phone with her around 40 minutes ago (she called me). She's apparently had to run interference with her boyfriend, who, it seems, has been threatening me physical harm due to his belief that I'm trash-talking him, which I'm not, as that implies that I've either embellished or lied about him, which I haven't. Also, during our conversation, I could hear him ranting in the background, with one choice comment sounding like, "Does he want to fight?"

This is ridiculous. No, I don't like the guy, but I really don't want this to come blows.

Since reading the last couple of posts, I think its time for you to walk away from this for a while. He seems like an idiot at best, and she's in a full blown relationship with him.

You don't need that kind of "third wheel drama" in your life.

And add me to the list of people who think you resemble Stephen King!

Good luck to you my friend!