Posted by Trixi I completely agree. Which is why I support legislation which would allow any couple the same legal rights as traditional married couples yet do not attempt to redefine marriage to include same-sex or other types of unions. Marriage is not a human rights issue, it is a sacrament. "Conjugal love involves a totality, in which all the elements of the person enter—appeal of the body and instinct, power of feeling and affectivity, aspiration of the spirit and of will. It aims at a deeply personal unity, a unity that, beyond union in one flesh, leads to forming one heart and soul; it demands indissolubility and faithfulness in definitive mutual giving; and it is open to fertility. In a word it is a question of the normal characteristics of all natural conjugal love, but with a new significance which not only purifies and strengthens them, but raises them to the extent of making them the expression of specifically Christian values."--C.C.C. 1643 Same-sex couples who consider themselves Christians and "married" are in rebellion and should be counseled with compassion and love, not encouraged.

Now that it is hopefully understood, my opinions of god. Do you see why all of these limitations are useless brain stuff, and not based in (my)reality. Now, here is the difference between my faith and yours. I wish for everyone to be right. Which means not pushing mine, or anyone else's truth on another person, as we are all a piece of the truth. That means that I try not to think myself right over other people, even if it is secretly. If we are all a part of god, how can we be wrong? This is another thing in which the bible and Jesus differ. Jesus warns against being prideful, yet the bible asks you to act in a self righteous crusade against non believers. Absurdity. What I advocate is that we advance the human race and not put up barriers. That way, we can all arrive at our truth.

Posted by MutantMandias Okay, so you were doing magic when you prayed for Obama to lose, because you were hoping to manipulate the natural world to facilitate a personal goal.

Not exactly. I do not invoke His power or ask for His intervention to manipulate or facilitate anything to achieve my personal goals. The type of prayer I practice is more of a conversation, usually fairly one-sided, and always requests God's will, not mine, be done. Therefore, no magic.

Posted by Trixi Not exactly. I do not invoke His power or ask for His intervention to manipulate or facilitate anything to achieve my personal goals. The type of prayer I practice is more of a conversation, usually fairly one-sided, and always requests God's will, not mine, be done. Therefore, no magic.

But god's will, will be done regardless of your little talk. Wouldn't it be more productive ask your higher power what is best? Having done Tarot, I know that, that is all you are doing. No demons or evil. Just asking what is there.

Yeah, that was kind of my point.

Her God is going to do things His way, no matter what she does, so why does she have to encourage Him? It seems a little weird. Why does a God insist on having a bunch of sycophantic Yes-men?

Posted by MutantMandias Yeah, that was kind of my point. Her God is going to do things His way, no matter what she does, so why does she have to encourage Him? It seems a little weird. Why does a God insist on having a bunch of sycophantic Yes-men?

Because this god was was made by man, and as such, it'll have human characteristics. That is the fallacy of the bible. but, alas, I'm getting self-righteous again.

Posted by dirt Wouldn't it be more productive ask your higher power what is best? Having done Tarot, I know that, that is all you are doing. No demons or evil. Just asking what is there.

When you ask what is there, who/what do you think is responding? I've not really heard much about how exactly Tarot reading works, but the cards are pretty nifty.

Posted by Trixi When you ask what is there, who/what do you think is responding? I've not really heard much about how exactly Tarot reading works, but the cards are pretty nifty.

It's not a response as people think. There are three parts of the mind. There is the part you can "see", which are your thoughts, like in words, what not. This is the conscious mind. Then there is the subconscious mind, which controls bodily functions. The third is the Super-conscious mind. If you focus on you brain, you can "feel" the part that you think with, and then there is a part you cannot look into. You can sense it there, and you can put it to work(it works all the time) on specific tasks. Tarot give one the ability to see what is going on in the super-conscious mind. This mind is closer to Atman, and because all spirits are connected, one can know things outside of their regular lives, like other peoples intentions. But sadly, based off the bible, divination is a sin.

Posted by dirt Tarot give one the ability to see what is going on in the super-conscious mind. This mind is closer to Atman, and because all spirits are connected, one can know things outside of their regular lives, like other peoples intentions.

I have been clairsentient (for lack of a better term) or empathic since I was around 6, when I had an extremely high fever and spent 3 days straight wide awake and hallucinating before it finally broke. I can sense the energy of, and see in my minds eye, past events that took place in a particular space, can read others intentions, and am basically a human lie detector, although I do not ever consciously will any of this to happen. Would this "information" come from what you consider the super-conscious mind? Given your description of Atman, this is what I would conclude.

Posted by dirt Tarot give one the ability to see what is going on in the super-conscious mind.

Posted by Trixi I have been clairsentient

This is the place where I am unable to resist shitting on both of your concepts of reality, yet at least I find some minor restraint in not being too mean about it.

Posted by Trixi I have been clairsentient (for lack of a better term) or empathic since I was around 6, when I had an extremely high fever and spent 3 days straight wide awake and hallucinating before it finally broke. I can sense the energy of, and see in my minds eye, past events that took place in a particular space, can read others intentions, and am basically a human lie detector, although I do not ever consciously will any of this to happen. Would this "information" come from what you consider the super-conscious mind? Given your description of Atman, this is what I would conclude.

Exactly. It is a rare gift you have. I just happen to have a vague sense of energy, and that's all. I find it strange that having the abilities you have, you follow a faith that says you are evil. If you, like me, are the type of person who takes what holds true from something, then discards the useless stuff, then why hold onto sin, and hell, damnation, etc. Why hold onto a definition of marriage? I say this because based off the bible(which is held as complete infallible truth), Not only do these gifts mean that you are an abomination, but also that you might be possessed by a demon. Based off the bible thumpers I was talking to, you have to take the whole bible as complete truth, otherwise you are "doing it wrong". Why not just use your gifts to do "gods work", instead of following a book that was Compiled by men, hundreds of years after the fact, who in all probability were teaching their own misguided forms of what Jesus taught. And the compilers who penned such madness, and probably changed things to suit their needs. But aye, your faith requires you to see me as enemy, or at least misguided and wrong.

Posted by MutantMandias This is the place where I am unable to resist shitting on both of your concepts of reality, yet at least I find some minor restraint in not being too mean about it.

That's well and fine, but if you are going to do that. May I ask why? Is there something you have learned contrary to what I'm saying? If so, speak. If you are completely lacking of any faith(I don not ask for blind christian faith), then what do you think? Is there nothing out there, a vast soulless world of meat bodies, running around randomly. If so, explain how things work that cannot be explained by science.

Posted by dirt Exactly. It is a rare gift you have. I just happen to have a vague sense of energy, and that's all. I find it strange that having the abilities you have, you follow a faith that says you are evil.

My faith (Catholicism) does not teach that it is sinful or evil to have these abilities, as long as the person does not willfully or intentionally use them.

Not only do these gifts mean that you are an abomination, but also that you might be possessed by a demon. Based off the bible thumpers I was talking to, you have to take the whole bible as complete truth, otherwise you are "doing it wrong".

A baptized and confirmed Christian cannot be possessed by both a demon and the Holy Spirit. As the state of my soul is something I believe only God knows for certain, I cannot claim you are wrong in your assumption. Yet I would again state that unless it was my will and intent to become possessed, I cannot be held morally culpable and therefore my possession would not be considered sinful.

Why not just use your gifts to do "gods work", instead of following a book that was Compiled by men, hundreds of years after the fact, who in all probability were teaching their own misguided forms of what Jesus taught. And the compilers who penned such madness, and probably changed things to suit their needs. But aye, your faith requires you to see me as enemy, or at least misguided and wrong.

I do God's work by living out the faith Jesus passed on to his Apostles and then on to us. My family and I lead a life of simplicity and voluntary poverty, feeding, clothing and sheltering the poor and donate any money left over to the Church. The Bible and Sacred Tradition are there for us to use as tools to bring us and others closer our Creator and are not to be thought of as the only ways to know Him or His will.

Posted by MutantMandias This is the place where I am unable to resist shitting on both of your concepts of reality, yet at least I find some minor restraint in not being too mean about it.

I "sense" your agony
Feel free to PM me if you really need to let loose, I won't be offended by the odor.

Posted by Trixi My faith (Catholicism) does not teach that it is sinful or evil to have these abilities, as long as the person does not willfully or intentionally use them.

So you are denying skills that would heal people, because a book told you so?

A baptized and confirmed Christian cannot be possessed by both a demon and the Holy Spirit. As the state of my soul is something I believe only God knows for certain, I cannot claim you are wrong in your assumption. Yet I would again state that unless it was my will and intent to become possessed, I cannot be held morally culpable and therefore my possession would not be considered sinful.

I can tell you straight up, it is possible. Moreover, you already are, and so is everyone else in a small way. Thought matter flakes off and sticks to your persons. Like when you get a line of a song stuck in your head. It's a piece of rouge datum. Put enough energy into one, and you have a thought form. Get enough thought forms together and you have "Legion"(If you get my quote). That is why places like hospitals, asylums, prisons etc have such strange energy. Also, I have been willingly possessed numerous times. I have been involved in rituals, where we have solved family issues, healed emotional wounds, and even sent cancer back into remission. I will never ever regret doing that. But based off christian faith, I'm going to hell.

I do God's work by living out the faith Jesus passed on to his Apostles and then on to us. My family and I lead a life of simplicity and voluntary poverty, feeding, clothing and sheltering the poor and donate any money left over to the Church. The Bible and Sacred Tradition are there for us to use as tools to bring us and others closer to our Creator and are not to be thought of as the only ways to know Him or His will.

I'm glad you are active in a real way. I'm even more glad that unlike some other people I have talked to(who I would call fanatics), you know that there are many paths up the mountain.

Posted by dirt So you are denying skills that would heal people, because a book told you so?

No, I am denying myself the opportunity to manipulate forces I cannot accurately verify as coming from the God I believe in. For example, I am very interested in the healing properties of Ibogaine with regard to addiction, but because of the way that "Iboga brings about the visual, tactile and auditory certainty of the irrefutable existence of the beyond" I tend to be wary of where this supernatural power comes from, and therefore would not be inclined to expose myself to it even if I were an addict and certain I would be cured.

From statements you have made I am inclined to think that you are not very familiar with the origins of the Bible and how it came to be compiled. Here is a link which will explain it better than I can and perhaps enlighten you a bit as to why people don't consider it just another book:
http://newadvent.org/cathen/02543a.htm

Posted by dirt I have been willingly possessed numerous times. I have been involved in rituals, where we have solved family issues, healed emotional wounds, and even sent cancer back into remission. I will never ever regret doing that. But based off christian faith, I'm going to hell.

I wouldn't presume that anyone is beyond hope of redemption from hell. Besides, the hell that I perceive from studying holy scriptures of varying faiths, in addition to the Bible, is not so much a place you go to if you do bad things, it is separating yourself from God and his natural love for us, typically by non-acceptance and/or rebellion. In a way, we could think of this existence and bodily death as hell, with heaven being our spirit's release from the bondage of the body to reunite eternally with the Creator once our souls are purified, who has also given us the will and ability to choose not to. How one goes about "getting to heaven" is obviously open to vast interpretation.

I'm glad you are active in a real way. I'm even more glad that unlike some other people I have talked to(who I would call fanatics), you know that there are many paths up the mountain.

Thanks, I try hard never to belittle anyone's religious convictions. God seems to have called me to walk this particular path. Being a Christian that tries to live like Jesus, even one as crappy at it as me, can be really, really difficult (and not for the faint of heart) as some overzealous fanatics brothers have no doubt proven. They make Jesus look bad and that pisses me off.

edited for stupid spelling errors.

Posted by Trixi From statements you have made I am inclined to think that you are not very familiar with the origins of the Bible and how it came to be compiled. Here is a link which will explain it better than I can and perhaps enlighten you a bit as to why people don't consider it just another book: http://newadvent.org/cathen/02543a.htm

Ummm, I'm more familiar with the origins of the bible, than what lies inside. Being dyslexic, I was only able to skim the pages for my eyes started glazing over.

But I will paraphrase what I know. As stated(and as far as I got), there are two parts. Old and New testament. I will not go over the old testament because I don't know it's origin. New testament though, was compiled years after Jesus died. I don't know who compiled it, but I think it was the leaders of the church at that time. New Testament is separated into four(?) parts relating to who wrote it(don't give me that holy ghost crap, it was written by men); John, Genesis, Luke, etc. When I say compiled, the church took all of the existing manuscripts, and took what best suited their needs for spiritual domination. Those became the bible. What was not used was burned. Some manuscripts survived though. Like the Gospel of Thomas, Gospel of Judas, Thunder Perfect Mind, Dead Sea Scrolls etc. Who knows what wealth of spiritual knowledge was gained in those days. Lost by greed. But there are still gems in the bible worth studying.

Posted by dirt But I will paraphrase what I know...New Testament is separated into four(?) parts relating to who wrote it(don't give me that holy ghost crap, it was written by men); John, Genesis, Luke, etc. When I say compiled, the church took all of the existing manuscripts, and took what best suited their needs for spiritual domination. Those became the bible.

Well, sort of, minus the spiritual domination part. In a nutshell, the Church chose the books she did to make up the canon of the Bible in the interest of ensuring that Christians were practicing the faith the way Jesus handed it down to His apostles, which, until authors wrote about His ministry many years after His death, was passed on in the form of oral tradition as was the custom of the times. Books like the Gospel of Thomas were deemed not to be divinely inspired and, due to their heretical nature, were not included, although many ancient texts like it are still studied by those with an interest in Christian history.

Your insistence that the motives of the Church in compiling the Bible into it's current form are to somehow exert "spiritual domination" over it's believers is unfortunate, although I can understand why you would assume that without having all the facts.

Posted by Trixi Well, sort of, minus the spiritual domination part. In a nutshell, the Church chose the books she did to make up the canon of the Bible in the interest of ensuring that Christians were practicing the faith the way Jesus handed it down to His apostles, which, until authors wrote about His ministry many years after His death, was passed on in the form of oral tradition as was the custom of the times. Books like the Gospel of Thomas were deemed not to be divinely inspired and, due to their heretical nature, were not included, although many ancient texts like it are still studied by those with an interest in Christian history. Your insistence that the motives of the Church in compiling the Bible into it's current form are to somehow exert "spiritual domination" over it's believers is unfortunate, although I can understand why you would assume that without having all the facts.

And what facts do I not have? And Equally, what facts do you not have?

Posted by dirt And what facts do I not have? And Equally, what facts do you not have?

Well, you said "Being dyslexic, I was only able to skim the pages for my eyes started glazing over."

If you get a chance to read the whole entry, you might uncover some information you were unaware of. I would not be knowledgeable of any facts I don't have, unless someone pointed them out to me or I came upon them through my own research.