One of my Facebook groups posted this:

Posted by splumer One of my Facebook groups posted this:

how in the hell do you defend a fucking loon like this?

You don't Sam. You don't.

Posted by jeepdave You don't Sam. You don't.

Perhaps you could answer just one question?


How is that any more indefensible than suggesting that dinosaurs walked the earth a few thousand years ago, people can survive thier own death, or that there is a supreme being that designs stuff?


If you are feeling energetic, you could elucidate us as to the evidence for any of these ideas.



Hmmmm. I wonder if there is a danger in believing wildly improbable things with out asking for evidence.....

I believe what I believe. I take it on faith. And if your wondering, I don't belong to any organized religion and do not take the bible as literal. Sorry, but God does not care if Gays serve in the military. And He does not hate Gays. That's what I take from my faith. You have faith too Tekky. Its just in science.

Posted by jeepdave Its just in science.

actually, i think it's more faith in 'reason'.

Posted by jeepdave I believe what I believe. I take it on faith. And if your wondering, I don't belong to any organized religion and do not take the bible as literal. Sorry, but God does not care if Gays serve in the military. And He does not hate Gays. That's what I take from my faith. You have faith too Tekky. Its just in science.

Figures.


You don't understand the difference between belief and faith.

Even when giving up, you still make a strawman argument.

The key difference between things that I believe and what you take on faith is that I am willing to modify my belief based on new information or contrary evidence.

Because your faith is based on wishful thinking, you will only ignore new evidence or attempt to make the new evidence fit your faith based view of the world.

One ID denier of evolution famously pointed out a gap in the fossil record. When the gap was neatly bisected by the discovery of the archeopteryx he was hear to tell his followers "See, now there are two gaps."

Of course you dropped the I have faith bomb. Whenever the faithful are painted into a corner, they always take thier faith ball and go home.

Or perhaps you just don't like having your faith challenged, Jeeepy.

click to view

LOL, challenge away Tekky, my faith is strong. Science actually tends to strengthen it. We both take leaps, I'm just willing to admit it.

God may not care if gays serve openly in the military but he does care if my football teams wins. True story.

Posted by G to the Race God may not care if gays serve openly in the military but he does care if my football teams wins. True story.

Depends on who you are pulling for

When it comes down to it some scientist figures shit out and tells you how it is. From there you take it all on faith he is correct and not bullshitting you? Sure, all sorts of scientific laws and theories exist, but I will be damned if me, you, or 99.9% of the earth are ever going to actually understand the math and science behind them.

Faith is faith.

Everybody believed the climate change bullshit, turns out the scientists were bullshitting the people, because it turns out they realized exactly what I have. Science may as well be the new religion and scientists the priests, because you and me know jack shit about astrophysics or what have you and we are gonna take their word for it.

Posted by Soldat222 When it comes down to it some scientist figures shit out and tells you how it is. From there you take it all on faith he is correct and not bullshitting you? Sure, all sorts of scientific laws and theories exist, but I will be damned if me, you, or 99.9% of the earth are ever going to actually understand the math and science behind them. Faith is faith. Everybody believed the climate change bullshit, turns out the scientists were bullshitting the people, because it turns out they realized exactly what I have. Science may as well be the new religion and scientists the priests, because you and me know jack shit about astrophysics or what have you and we are gonna take their word for it.

This is what happens when you don't fund public education and put stickers on text books.


The difference between science and religion is that scientific facts are testable. That means that anyone can perform the same experiment and view the results themselves.

The only limitation may be the apparatus. However much of what science has learned is observable to be true and a great deal of what christianity has said over the last 2,000 years is observable to be false.

Magellan saw the shadow on the moon and was able to contradict the church's teaching that the earth was flat. Anyone can see that. No magical thinking is required.

Posted by G to the Race God may not care if gays serve openly in the military but he does care if my football teams wins. True story.

As a Browns fan, I can attest that the gods truly hate us.

When it comes down to it some scientist figures shit out and tells you how it is. From there you take it all on faith he is correct and not bullshitting you? Sure, all sorts of scientific laws and theories exist, but I will be damned if me, you, or 99.9% of the earth are ever going to actually understand the math and science behind them.

Just like when you have faith that when your friend says he had a cheeseburger for dinner, he's telling the truth. When scientific theories are released to the public, or generally accepted as true, it is only after a long peer-review process that often takes decades. For example, "amoxicillin cures bacterial infections of the inner ear." No one took that on "faith." The person who said that didn't say "It is written, therefore it is true!" It was tested on multiple subjects until a satisfying conclusion was reached, then other scientists tested it, over several years, until they reached an agreement that indeed, amoxicillin cures bacterial infections of the inner ear, and, oh yeah, it cures several other infections as well! Bonus points!

That's how science works, in a nutshell. That's not to say that there wasn't some shoddy science or outright lies along the way. Scientists are only human. But the process of science weeds those types out. Remember the fuss over cold fusion? Google it.

Posted by tekriter This is what happens when you don't fund public education and put stickers on text books. The difference between science and religion is that scientific facts are testable. That means that anyone can perform the same experiment and view the results themselves. The only limitation may be the apparatus. However much of what science has learned is observable to be true and a great deal of what christianity has said over the last 2,000 years is observable to be false. Magellan saw the shadow on the moon and was able to contradict the church's teaching that the earth was flat. Anyone can see that. No magical thinking is required.

Don't gimme any bullshit about public education.

Face the sad fact that if some scientists came out and told the world some total bullshit people would believe it.

Shit, that 17 mile long, 500 foot underground Large Hadron Collider keeps breaking and the reasons given are "a bird dropped bread in a surface part" and "the machines is so badass that it time travels to destroy itself" and nobody really seemed to mind.


You have faith in scientists to not be wrong or full of shit. However they are men, as you said. And men tend to be wrong and full of shit a good portion of the time for whatever reason.

Im not saying science is not logical and usually correct. I am saying is that really you, me, and everybody else goes on faith in what scientists say when it comes to most things science. Or do you understand it all?

I don't mean to make a personal attack, but your grasp on logic and reason appears pretty weak.


You are trying to assert that belief is the same as faith. This is equivocation and it is a logical fallacy. There is no correlation between how you and I determine what ideas to accept or dismiss.

Science is based on thousands of years of observable testable evidence. I don't see the motivation for scientists to lie to me, particularly not when the scientific method requires testable evidence. That means, for the most part, scientists are a credible source of information.

Similary, when the man on CNN tells me that there are floods in Brisbane I will believe him for the following reasons:

1) He has little or no reason to lie.

2) Flooding is consistent with my first hand knowledge of the world, and is consistent with other credible sources of information, such as history texts and smaller floods I have seen.


Faith is based on nothing more than bald assertions made by iron age dirt people, with no evidence, or based loosely on the incomplete information of the day. They have a clear motivation to lie, or to maintain disproven beliefs: fear of the unknown, ignorance, and wishful thinking. The things that you have faith in are not consistent with the known world:

1) Men cannot die and rise again.
2) Animal sacrifice does not cure leprosy.
3) on and on ad infinitum.....

You have faith in scientists to not be wrong or full of shit. However they are men, as you said. And men tend to be wrong and full of shit a good portion of the time for whatever reason.

This is a typical example of a strawman argument. You deliberatley misrepresent my position and then try to show that yours is more valid.


I most certainly do not have "faith" in the manner described. I believe, based on thousands of years of consistent repitition, that scientists will often be wrong, and another scientist will point that out. (see falsifiablity and the scientific method) When that happens, usually after much debate (by reasonable people) we will change our "belief" and our knowledge advances.

Face the sad fact that if some scientists came out and told the world some total bullshit people would believe it.

This is just ironic. Religious institutions have long been telling people "total bullshit" and demanding that they take it on faith. And they do, willing to be fed by the hand for promised rewards of heaven and the blissfully ignorant delusion that some thing or someone is watching over you.

Concersly, science has been telling people facts for thousands of years and inviting them to test the assertions, see the evidence, and try to prove them wrong.

I am saying is that really you, me, and everybody else goes on faith in what scientists say when it comes to most things science.Or do you understand it all?

So, no. Fail. I have demonstrated a clear difference in faith and belief.

I don't need to understand it all. Much of our best wisdom about the universe does not affect my day to day life. The things I choose to believe I do so for good reasons. Like splumer, when I am prescribed a proven, well known anti-biotic, by a credible trained professional, I will accept that it will work.

If I am asked to take a new drug, I ask to see the evidence.


No one has ever started a war because they wanted to see more evidence. On the other hand many wars were perpetrated specifically because no one asked for more evidence:

Germans might have asked for more evidence that the jews destroyed the economy, but they took it on faith.

The USA invaded Iraq based on false evidence, and had to do it nearly unilaterally because the rest of the world demanded more evidence, they did not take it on faith as much as George w did.

Science relies on money. Results get more money. You gonna sit there on your high horse and try to tell me scientist have no reason to lie? Bull fucking shit Tekky.

Posted by tekriter

This being my first post om this board i will give a little back story. I believe in God. I don't believe in the bible. Im pro life, pro birth control, and pro gay marriage. So i don't fit into any group. i hate hypochristians, those are people who say god hates fags and then go off and have pre martial sex.
That being said, I have no problem with people being christians, or muslim, or hindus, or jews, or athetist, or whatever. I belive everyone has their own religion for their own purposes. Hell if the bible was one hard and fast rule book there wouldnt be catholic and baptist and mormons and methodist. There would be just one christian denomination.
So i don't understand why you (tekriter) have such a problem with other people having their own religion. Has anyone gone after you saying your entire belief system is bullshit? or that you're an idiot for thinking the way you do? if not, then why do you try to take away from people something they hold so dear?

Wow. You are a little testy, jeeepy. You ahve nothing to add but personal attacks and nonsense?

Posted by jeepdave Science relies on money. Results get more money. You gonna sit there on your high horse and try to tell me scientist have no reason to lie? Bull fucking shit Tekky.

Maybe this is true in your country, but in much of the rest of the developed world science is publicly funded and many people seek knowledge for its own sake.


And I'm sure that some do lie for money - but that only succeeds where people are willing to believe what they are fed without question and are poorly educated in science.

You would do well to have a healthy dose of skepticism in ALL areas of human endeavour.

Percentage of americans that believe jesus will return by 2050: 40
Percentage of americans that believe Obama is a muslim: 18

Astrology: 29%
UFOs: 34%
Ghosts: 34%
witches: 24%

elvis is still alive: 8%

In the united states only 14% of adults believe that evolution is definitely true. That figure rises to over 80% in the rest of the developed world.

The only country that is less likely to believe evolution is Turkey - an Islamic Republic.

You are living in a declining empire because of poor public education and people that are simply willing to believe unreasonable things.

An as long as you opened the door, my horse only appears so high since you, sir, have arrived at a battle of the wits unarmed.

Evolution is a theory not a law. That's why a majority of people don't believe it.

Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby Has anyone gone after you saying your entire belief system is bullshit? or that you're an idiot for thinking the way you do?

welcome.

Now go read the older posts, or just read the above. I get that every day, sometimes in those exact words.

The debate on reason in our society is suppressed by a ridiculous taboo against questioning unreasonable ideas if they are masked br the word religion.

This is called special pleading and is not reasonable and does not help us advanve our knowledge of the universe or solve important problems of human suffering.

There is no such thing as a personal belief. Everything you believe influences how you act and interact.

You would ahve to have an encyclopedic ignorance of history to ignore the millions of people that were tortured and killed becuase of someone's unreasonable religious beliefs.

Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby if not, then why do you try to take away from people something they hold so dear?

You misrepresent my position. I simply suggest that there is no good reason to believe the things they do.

I do not assert that there is no god, I only point out that there is no evidence to support it and no good reason to believe it.

Just because you want it (hold it so dear) does not make it true.