Posted by tekriter yadda yadda yadda

I just got back home and I'm too busy to do a big long post like I have been so I will make this simply and cut out all the foreplay. Here are some bullet points for you:

- Its not your beliefs that are the issue. Its you.

- I dont care what religion people are, I am by no means ever trying to convert anyone to anything.

- I have no problem with anyone else on here, except for you. I like and get along with Splummer, MM, KK, Earthworm, Sam as well as I do with the religious folks. The only person that I don't get along with is. So please stop bringing up anyone else. This is about you. No one else.

- To have a difference of opinion is one thing. To hateful about it and attack a person for their beliefs is uncalled and rude.

- My tiresome long post? Hello Pot, you're black.

- This topic is relevant to the religion board bc I am wanting to know your views. Which you refuse or are unwilling to discuss.

- The point of this thread is to understand you and try to salvage any hope of healthy discourse, which you have since ruined. If were able to actually do anything I have asked of you then we could call this a done deal, yet your unwillingness to cooperate and discuss is what has dragged this along for far longer than it should have. It should have been:

Why are you here tekriter? What are your views?

Tekriter: Why they are xyz... why do you ask?

Bc i want to be able to have a discussion with you instead of being annoyed.

Tekriter: Oh ok. You're still wrong on your beliefs.

Thats fine with me. Lets go back to talking about why catholics inspired the Nazis.

- But instead you have avoided it.

- I have covered my thoughts and beliefs in this thread and several. Next time read before you post.

- I have no emotionally held beliefs about religion. You and I are in the same boat and that is that religion has caused a lot of harm and helps people to continue to bigots and or creates a us vs them mentality. The difference is I am aware that religion is not evil and has done many great things, where you write it off and every member of a religion as evil people.

- Again its not people, i call names, its you. This is all YOU. I haven't attacked anyone else or anyones beliefs. I have gone after your hateful tone and intolerance of others.

- I can't tell you the last time I had a situation like the one with you. I get along with most everyone. There is a very small handful of people I don't get along with.

- You have avoided anything directed you. You have deflected and avoided every attempt to gather something from you.

- As for the links for Penn & Teller and The Amazing Atheist, they are for context to show I don't have a problem with them or their point of views or even how the convey their points, many of which are the same as yours. But I do have a problem with the manner you convey yours. Further illustrating the fact its not about your beliefs but rather about you and you attitude.

There you go. Much longer than originally intended. In fact I decided to stop re reading your post, bc you just say the same thing over and over again and I have things to do. If I need to break this down more let me know.

Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby - This topic is relevant to the religion board bc I am wanting to know your views. Which you refuse or are unwilling to discuss.

That's the first time I've been accused of that.

Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby If I need to break this down more let me know.

Yeah, you do. Still not seeing how a hater thread is a good way to find out someone's views. You still have not asked a single question that wasn't designed to make a point about how awesome you are, and how another human being is not.


You can protest all you want that you only hate me, but that still doesn't make it okay. You'll do it to someone else when king monkey doesn't like thier tone.


Everything you says goes around in circles and still doesn't justify your hater thread.

...and if I am so stupid and evil, what does that make you? You have spent a great deal of time and energy trying to convince no one in particular of your convuoluted point. Five pages worth now. Still have not acheived anything other that to demonstrate you can call people names that you don't like.

Posted by jeepdave Well, if its logical, and works, who cares if its morally right. We should do it because it makes sense. Its scientifically proven to be effective. ( And on a side note, weapons can be morally right, depending on why your using them) Oh, and Tekky, you still are evading the question. At least Splume was willing to admit its science, are you? And do you agree with it, because to not would by hypocritical, since you are all logic, all the time. So Tekky, is it science, and do you agree with it? Waiting. Try giving an answer this time. Thank.

First off, jeepus, this is waaaay off topic. Try starting a new thread, it seems like an interesting line of inquiry, but it really is a side show to monkey boys hater thread.

Second, you'll have to forgive me if your question seems like a bit of a trick. That and your next step is usually to just call me names.

I also seem to recall you suggesting that science was some sort of religion. In that case I would need to know your definition of science and what you think eugenics is before I can give a definitive answer.

Third, your question also implies that there are only two choices - you can agree or disagree with it only. Isn't it possible that there are other choices? like some parts of eugenics could have been science based and other could have been based on racial bias. Then niether of your answers are correct. This is called a false dichotomyand is usually the hallmark of the begining of a dishonest discourse.



Eugenics is just a word. In the historical context it was a social movement associated with the nazis, and seems, in that sense, to be more of a psuedo science - like intelligent design.

In the modern sense, some people equate the term with genetic engineering, and removing things like huntington's disease. Genetic engineering is engineering, but relies on genetics, which is a branch of science, and as far as the goal of eliminating huntington's I could agree with that. As far as the rest of the goals - it is hard to say without being specific.

So I suppose if you want a real discussion of something you are interested in you'll have to define your question honestly in a new thread. (i'll spell out why for you to save you asking later: If you are arguing one position and I am arguing another position but we both believe the subject is moething different, then it would be a silly argument)



On the other hand, if you are trying to make a point about what a bad person I am, just say it. This is a little tedious don't you think? Seems that you have been stewing on this eugenics thing for a while - what's on your mind, jeepus?

I suspect, as usual you won't be happy with my answer. Sorry. We could drop the name calling too if you want. It seems - like this thread - a little childish.



Back on topic, this whole thread is a little like nazi eugenics for ideas. The monkey guy is just trying to use something that sounds rational to get rid of people he doesn't like.

Calling people "monkey boy" and "jeepus" just further underlines their stance.

I also notice you have decided to ignore my genuine question

Posted by maypost This, by the way is a 100% serious question...

Sorry - I almost didn't recognize you trying to take the high road.

It is not. It's just a statement of your opinion.

Posted by maypost Why do you find it acceptable to call people morons and stupid for having their own faith but seem to take offence when people simply state that do in fact believe in god?

I don't find it acceptable and have said as much.

I don't take offence. That doesn't change the fact that it is an unfounded belief.

Why do you feel the need to call people names when they question your beliefs? Can those beliefs not stand on thier own merits?

Thats's just it. They are not my beliefs. Not all of them. I just don't think it is right to attack the core of any person's faith or beliefs. Most of us are lucky enough to live in a place where we can believe what we want to, all I ask is that you treat that right with some resect.

I just think that stating your beliefs is not cause to call someone's beliefs stupid. Sure, they may not be your's, but that makes them no less valid. That is all I am saying.

Also, while you obviously tried to stay civil, was there a real need to knit pick my post? I think it read very clearly. I was stating that the question I was about to ask was not intended to be loaded. You knew that but decided to take a cheap shot none the less.

That's very disappointing. It IS a step in teh right direction, yet still a shame. Had you put that post without you pointless grammatical cheap shot, I would wager a lot of people on here would have given due credit to you for not being so abrasive. Just something to think about.

Posted by maypost I just don't think it is right to attack the core of any person's faith or beliefs. Most of us are lucky enough to live in a place where we can believe what we want to, all I ask is that you treat that right with some resect.

Why not? You can believe all you want, but that does not change the fact that you either have good reasons to believe the things you do, or you do not.

It is called special pleading to ask for respect for ideas that are invalid.

Please learn to separate the idea from the person.

You show respect for the person by not calling them names, among aother things.

Your ideas do not automatically earn respect because they are deeply held or called religous.

Posted by maypost I just think that stating your beliefs is not cause to call someone's beliefs stupid. Sure, they may not be your's, but that makes them no less valid. That is all I am saying.

I agree. We should not call each other stupid.

But here's where we disagree. Who's belief it is has no bearing on it's validity. It is either a founded belief or an unounded belief.

I think what you believe is wrong. I have good reasons for this. For this I get called names. Which is exactly what you say we shouldn't do.


There are many muslim extremists that believe killing people make's then better muslims. The examples are countless. This is no doubt a deeply held religious belief.

It is also stupid. It is in no way compatible with living in peace together, and there is no good reason to believe this. Thier book says to do this. But their is no evidence that thier god wrote it, supports it or even exists.

I would ask for better reasons before killing children. I believe if you do not critically evaluate what you believe it makes killing children no only possible but perfeclty logical. I believe we owe it to those children to question unreasonable ideas wherever we see them.

You ask that I respect deeply held religious beleifs? No. I won't. To criticise those beliefs and allow that yours deserve respect is wrong.

They are no more valid than your beliefs, and the consequences are real.

Now before you jump all over this - I am sure there are alot of very nice people who deserve respect who also happen to be muslim. I have also met muslims who blew up children in what they truly believe was defense of islam.

There are no sets of unreasonable beleifs that deserve respect just because someone believes them as a core belief.

Posted by maypost Also, while you obviously tried to stay civil, was there a real need to knit pick my post? I think it read very clearly. I was stating that the question I was about to ask was not intended to be loaded. You knew that but decided to take a cheap shot none the less.

If that was your intent then you failed. Your question was offensive on it's face. How can you suggest it was anything but loaded.

Posted by maypost That's very disappointing. It IS a step in teh right direction, yet still a shame. Had you put that post without you pointless grammatical cheap shot, I would wager a lot of people on here would have given due credit to you for not being so abrasive. Just something to think about.

I'm sorry you are so disappointed. I think being abrasive is asking questions the way you do. Clearly not designed for civil discussion, but quite the opposite.

I think murdered children and why they were murdered is something to think about.

I tried, I really did.


Grow up

Posted by maypost I tried, I really did. Grow up

Its pointless. He is never wrong. He likes to think of himself as a modern day Darwin. I guess in the future, unless he wants to have a civil conversation, the best thing to do is ignore him.

Posted by tekriter Why not? You can believe all you want, but that does not change the fact that you either have good reasons to believe the things you do, or you do not. ....

I have to admit, for most of this thread you have been childish and intentionally obstinate, but this last post is 100% on the money. I agree with it entirely.


To expand on the most salient point, I cannot respect deeply held religious beliefs, but I can respect people, and for that reason, I don't always go around telling people how idiotic their idiotic beliefs are.

Posted by jeepdave Its pointless. He is never wrong. He likes to think of himself as a modern day Darwin. I guess in the future, unless he wants to have a civil conversation, the best thing to do is ignore him.

How is your thinking that you are right any different than me thinking I am?

I quite clearly explained my position to both of you, and neither of you were able to respond.

I don't get the darwin thing, but the ignore me thing is clear. If that's all you have to bring to the table, then yes please.

Is your definition of a civil conversation one where people are only allowed to agree with you? I answered your question as reasonably as I could. I didn't call you any names or say you were a bad human. As predicted you take shelter in insults and ignore the response to your own question.

Makes me wonder if you really wanted an answer or if you were just trying to play a silly game and I didn't answer the way you wanted me to.

You have no real criticism of my answer - while you may not like my tone it is far less insulting than your lame insinuations and rude tone.

My point stands and you have no counter for my argument.

I gotta head out to the field again for a few days. Why don't you try and respond to my points instead of just lashing out?

Posted by MutantMandias I have to admit, for most of this thread you have been childish and intentionally obstinate, but this last post is 100% on the money. I agree with it entirely.

True, but given the context it seems appropriate. And there is much to admire about children and obstinate people.

Posted by MutantMandias To expand on the most salient point, I cannot respect deeply held religious beliefs, but I can respect people, and for that reason, I don't always go around telling people how idiotic their idiotic beliefs are.

Only sometimes? ;)

Posted by maypost I tried, I really did. Grow up

Some people try harder than others. You seem to have a pretty low tolerance for well made arguments that run counter to your emotional beliefs.

I didn't call you any names or make any hater threads. While my tone was terse for brevity, it pales in comparison to the over the top rhetoric and personal insults that usually characterize your contribution.

You made it all of one post before your turtled and dropped some insults.

I'm not sure if you don't understand what I wrote, or if you don't want to.

"grow up" is sort of a non answer and doesn't really address any of the points I made.

I think the fact that you were unable to respond to what I said in any meaningful way is all that needs to be said on this topic.

Your an idiot. Its not the difference of opinion that makes you a lost cause. Its the elitist attitude you bring with your opinion. But you can't get that into your head. That actually makes you pretty much useless when it comes to religion and science. Sorry for calling you an idiot, but that's the only word that seems appropriate at this time. I pity you, I really do.

Posted by jeepdave Its the elitist attitude you bring with your opinion.

Religious people could be said to be elitist. "We are god's chosen people. God wrote out book. They are all infidels." and so on.


And also you, the internet religious discussion elitist. "You are an idiot, you don't have the proper attitude" and so on.

If I am en elitist because I can argue my point cleary then , sure, label me what ever you want.

You still can't counter my points. In reality, my attitude has nothing to do with it. There is nothing I could do or say to avoid your name calling and disrespectful insults. You have siezed on it as a convenient smoke screen for your own inability to justify the things that you say.

It is although worth pointing out that you have failed at what you are trying to do here. If your goal was to silence my dissent, I'm still here. If your goal was to improve my attitude, your name calling and hater thread has done little or nothing to change it.

If your goal was to convince anyone of anything you have also failed by putting your head in the sand in the face of valid arguments contrary to your beliefs.

Posted by tekriter sdfghjkl;dsfghjkledrftgyhujkwswedrfgthjkl

You seem to be having a very hard time understanding the most simple of points that several have pointed out.

It's not your beliefs that are the issue. Its your attitude. No one is saying you're wrong for believing/knowing in the things you do. The whole point is that you are unnecessarily combative when people bring up any religion. No one (here at least) is trying to convert or make you stop believing/knowing what you do. The whole point of this was to understand your point of view in hopes of having a positive discussions with you. Instead you turned it into this 5 page thread of nonsense and avoidance. If this is how you wanna discuss things, fine. So be it. But for someone who seems to enjoy debate or argue religious points, its going make it really for you when people start ignoring you because of your attitude.

And so kids this ends the tale of the day people tried to reach out and have a good honest debate without it becoming an attack thread. But sadly the problem, as it always is on the internet, is people are so protected by their shield of anonymity that they will continue to act like jerks to one another because they know that there is truly no repercussions for their actions on the internet. So i guess all that proved by this thread was that we are all assholes, its just how big of an asshole do you wanna be?

Lets all just remember this:

The only thing that this thread has taught us is that we ned a more active moderator.

Posted by tekriter Why not? You can believe all you want, but that does not change the fact that you either have good reasons to believe the things you do, or you do not.

Who gets to decide what is a "good reason?"

Too many here think their opinions matter, and too many get offended when somoeone does not agree with them. How about just believe what you want to believe, and screw what anyone thinks.

Posted by Esoterik Who gets to decide what is a "good reason?" Too many here think their opinions matter, and too many get offended when somoeone does not agree with them. How about just believe what you want to believe, and screw what anyone thinks.

I concur.

Great. I welcome acceptance of gay marriage and the end of the abortion debate.