Posted by tekriter Or weird like flying on unicorns...

That sounds awesome, please sign me up for that.

Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby That sounds awesome, please sign me up for that.

I'm getting 2000 cans of red bull delivered to my house. I have to empty them for my purposes and I plan on drowning a horse in the waste. I'll let the board know if it becomes a flying unicorn.

Also Tek, do you really think I'm a "deist"? You're weird.

Posted by earthworm Also Tek, do you really think I'm a "deist"? You're weird.

Why would you think I think that, worm?

weird:   adjective

1. involving or suggesting the supernatural; unearthly or uncanny: a weird sound; weird lights.
2. fantastic; bizarre: a weird getup.
3. (Archaic) concerned with or controlling fate or destiny.

Well...

I am neither involved with nor suggest the supernatural, I eschew fantasy in favour of reason, and I do not believe in fate or destiny.

I would suggest I am not weird, but iconoclastic, or at the very least in the minority for my lack of religious convictions.

Posted by tekriter Why would you think I think that, worm?

Might have something to do with what I perceive is passive aggressive posturing on your part; turning the slightest thing, for instance my commenting on the "weirdness" of this thread¹ into another triad against religion. Also, your unwillingness to acknowledge even the slightest point in other threads outside of "religion is the worst atrocity on the planet" further informs my view. Seems to me that you would equate even that slight point to the person saying it being a child molesting pope or something. Hostility... Hostility... Hostility... How often to you punch churches when you walk down the street?


¹Which, by the way, has nothing to do with the supernatural unless a ghost or a god posted in this thread. Perhaps "tremendously awkward" would have been a better word choice.

Posted by Samurai statistically, you're full of shit. The overwhelming majority of child molesters are heterosexual. basically, what I am hearing is this "gay= child molester". Pardon me, but if you were standing three feet from me and said that, I'd knock your fucking teeth down your throat.

Is it that child molestors self-identify as hetero? I can't help wondering if perhaps the inability to come out (for whatever reason) leads to molestation, and that child molestation is an unintended consequence of the persecution of gays. I'd be interested in seeing statistics on countries where there isn't such a stigma on homosexuality.

Posted by earthworm Might have something to do with what I perceive is passive aggressive posturing on your part;

Not sure there is anything passive about it. Further, there is no posture. I have taken a position on the subject that you disagree with. You respond with ad hominem attacks, dissembling and trying to misrepresent my statements.

You have yet to explain the deist comment.

Posted by earthworm 1Which, by the way, has nothing to do with the supernatural unless a ghost or a god posted in this thread. Perhaps "tremendously awkward" would have been a better word choice.

You are right - except that the subject is an organization that is completely based on SUPERNATURAL beliefs that conceals child molesting by people that are supposed to communicate with a GOD and teach about the life of an imaginary dude that supposedly lived 2,000 years ago and did SUPERNATURAL things like fly, cure diseases, come back from the dead and continue to influence the activities of real people as some sort of holy GHOST.

I also think it would be SUPERNATURAL if a GOD or a GHOST posted in this thread. It would put an end to a lot of our discussions on their existence. I agree that would be a little awkward though.

But other than that I acknowledge that your point.

Posted by tekriter You are right - except that the subject is an organization that is completely based on SUPERNATURAL beliefs that conceals child molesting by people that are supposed to communicate with a GOD and teach about the life of an imaginary dude that supposedly lived 2,000 years ago and did SUPERNATURAL things like fly, cure diseases, come back from the dead and continue to influence the activities of real people as some sort of holy GHOST.

It has been proven that Jesus Christ was a real person who really lived. Also, I may be a bit rusty, but I don't remember the part in Bible or the Quran where Jesus would fly. You also mention cure diseases and coming back from the dead as supernatural, you are aware that is not supernatural. People have been curing diseases since the beginning of man, and people can be clinically dead and come back, you can talk to my stepfather about if you would like. Perhaps you meant the way it is said is supernatural?

Also, is Jesus really such a bad role model? You can hate on the world religions as much as you like and can bring up the horrible things the holy books have in them. But Jesus is a pretty stand up guy. I would like to know what problem you have him. Jesus only spoke of love, compassion, non violence and understanding.

Posted by splumer Is it that child molestors self-identify as hetero? I can't help wondering if perhaps the inability to come out (for whatever reason) leads to molestation, and that child molestation is an unintended consequence of the persecution of gays. I'd be interested in seeing statistics on countries where there isn't such a stigma on homosexuality.

Pedophilia is not connected to a sexual preference for the same or the opposite sex. It is a sexual preference for children. It has often been suggested that it is equivalent to a sexual orientation of its own.


"The distinction between a victim's gender and a perpetrator's sexual orientation is important because many child molesters don't really have an adult sexual orientation. They have never developed the capacity for mature sexual relationships with other adults, either men or women. Instead, their sexual attractions focus on children – boys, girls, or children of both sexes."
http://psychology....s_molestation.html

But the priesthood connection is valid. People who are living in a religious culture where it is unacceptable to be gay may find themselves entering the priesthood as a way to deal with it, but most people in that situation would probably prefer finding a somewhat easier way to deal with their conflicts.

However, since pedophilia is reviled in most cultures, there is no escape from that internal conflict, and a pedophile raised in a religious community would be more likely to enter the priesthood as a way of trying to handle their internal demons.

Posted by splumer Is it that child molestors self-identify as hetero? I can't help wondering if perhaps the inability to come out (for whatever reason) leads to molestation, and that child molestation is an unintended consequence of the persecution of gays. I'd be interested in seeing statistics on countries where there isn't such a stigma on homosexuality.

I too would like to see the data that suggests that gays are more likely to be molesters.

It is worth noting that the religious among us very quickly turn a discussion on institutional child molestation into a condemnation of gays - particularly in light of the connection between religion and sex.

Nearly all major religious organizations place all manner of restrictions or allowances on sexual behaviour. Many have sexist views on gender, marriage and reproduction.

Like FLDS child marriage and polygamy and their twisted views on homosexuality. The catholic church's vocal opposition to contraception, sex education, masturbation, homosexuality and pretty much anything to do with your bits. Islam's view on women as property, and islamic ideas about rape. The obsessive amount of scriptural writing about menstruation.

JW's abuse children too: http://www.youtube...atch?v=QLAC9kS_EqM

Perhaps the fact that religious officials work in organizations that are obsessed with sex and sexuality, they read books that would make Caligula blush, and by their very nature place those same officials in a position of trust might have something to do with kiddie diddling.

Or maybe anyone who diddles little kids is a sick fuck that needs to be shot.

Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby It has been proven that Jesus Christ was a real person who really lived.

No.

Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby Also, I may be a bit rusty, but I don't remember the part in Bible or the Quran where Jesus would fly.

ACTS 1:9 And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight.

Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby You also mention cure diseases and coming back from the dead as supernatural, you are aware that is not supernatural. People have been curing diseases since the beginning of man, and people can be clinically dead and come back, you can talk to my stepfather about if you would like. Perhaps you meant the way it is said is supernatural?

It is supernatural. It is defined and portrayed as supernatural. Christianity insists that it is supernatural as a basic tenet.

Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby Also, is Jesus really such a bad role model? You can hate on the world religions as much as you like and can bring up the horrible things the holy books have in them. But Jesus is a pretty stand up guy. I would like to know what problem you have him. Jesus only spoke of love, compassion, non violence and understanding.

Word. I think my biggest problem is the insane belief that Jesus is God, which started around 100 years after the time of the Jesus, and was finally established as doctrine as part of a political compromise a couple of hundred years later. If there was a single person who closely resembles the stories that were told about Jesus, he would be sickened by the idea of Trinity, and smash the fuck out of every church.

Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby It has been proven that Jesus Christ was a real person who really lived.

I disagree. I am unaware of any first hand accounts of his life, and there is no physical proof of his existence. Further if he did exist, it is vey unlikely he did many of the things that attributed to him. It is not even possible to make a coherent description of him, let alone one that is different that dozens of other mythical characters that predate him.

The fact is, you believe he existed because you want to.

Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby Also, I may be a bit rusty, but I don't remember the part in Bible or the Quran where Jesus would fly.

Luke 24:51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.

Mark 16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

Millions of x-tians believe he literally flew up to sit at god's right hand.

(let's not forget Muhammad and his night journey on a flying mule)

Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby You also mention cure diseases and coming back from the dead as supernatural, you are aware that is not supernatural. People have been curing diseases since the beginning of man, and people can be clinically dead and come back, you can talk to my stepfather about if you would like. Perhaps you meant the way it is said is supernatural?

Luke 4:40 Now when the sun was setting, all they that had any sick with divers diseases brought them unto him; and he laid his hands on every one of them, and healed them.

Luke 6:18 And they that were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed.

Healing diseases by touch - can't happen.

Dead for three days and come back? Nope. Can't happen.

Luke 18:42 And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved
thee.

18:43 And immediately he received his sight, and followed him, glorifying God: and all the people, when they saw it, gave praise unto God.

Healing the blind with faith? Also does not happen.

Why can't god heal amputees?

Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby Also, is Jesus really such a bad role model? You can hate on the world religions as much as you like and can bring up the horrible things the holy books have in them. But Jesus is a pretty stand up guy. I would like to know what problem you have him. Jesus only spoke of love, compassion, non violence and understanding.

Jesus was a douche that maybe stalked the desert 2,000 years ago, and his followers have been killing each other in his name ever since.

His teachings are contradictory at best, and not a moral guide that I would want to live by.

Luke 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Maybe he'll be nicer when he comes back:

Revelation 19: And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war”, “His eyes were as a flame of fire”, clothed in a vesture dipped in blood“, and “out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Don't believe in me? You should be put to death.

I am unaware of anywhere that jesus condemns slavery. Are you? It is advocated in many places in the bible, along with admonishments for violence. Not what I would teach my kids.

12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

Jesus preaching no forgiveness. also not nice.

Matthew 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Jesus casting people into furnaces for offending him. Seems a bit harsh.

Matthew 22:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Don't ignore jesus' dress code!

27:25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.

Damn JEWS!

16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Get baptized or go to hell.





Have you even read the bible?


"We can either have a twenty-first-century conversation about morality and the human well-being - a conversation in which we avail ourselves of all scientific insights and philosophical arguments that have accumulated in the last two thousand years of human discourse - or we can confine ourselves to a first-century conversation as it is preserved in the Bible.”
― Sam Harris, Letter to a Christian Nation

Posted by tekriter ....misrepresent my statements. You have yet to explain the deist comment.

I'm sure I did. please reread:

Posted by earthworm ...turning the slightest thing, for instance my commenting on the "weirdness" of this thread1 into another triad against religion. ...your unwillingness to acknowledge even the slightest point in other threads outside of "religion is the worst atrocity on the planet" further informs my view. Seems to me that you would equate even that slight point to the person saying it being a child molesting pope or something.

Also, I find it incredibly egotistical of you to turn a sentence starting with "this thread" into meaning "tek's posts".

Posted by tekriter Have you even read the bible?

Wow, you must have the whole thing memorized! How long did you spend at the bible madrasah, or are just copying off wikipedia again? Eh, you're as much as waste of time as MrGreenJeans.

Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby It has been proven that Jesus Christ was a real person who really lived. Also, I may be a bit rusty, but I don't remember the part in Bible or the Quran where Jesus would fly. You also mention cure diseases and coming back from the dead as supernatural, you are aware that is not supernatural. People have been curing diseases since the beginning of man, and people can be clinically dead and come back, you can talk to my stepfather about if you would like. Perhaps you meant the way it is said is supernatural?

Whether or not Jesus existed is a matter of debate at best. The sources usually cited as evidence of his existence are the four gospels, and the contention that they were written independently. In other words, four separate historical accounts of his life. There has also been some physical evidence of someone with the name Jesus (technically, Yeshua) living in the area and time in which he is purported to have lived. There is some question, however, about whether the gospels were indeed written fully independently and not simply four writers' attempts to create a cult based on Jesus.

The short version: evidence of Jesus's existence is shaky at best, and evidence of his divinity only hearsay.

Also, is Jesus really such a bad role model? You can hate on the world religions as much as you like and can bring up the horrible things the holy books have in them. But Jesus is a pretty stand up guy. I would like to know what problem you have him. Jesus only spoke of love, compassion, non violence and understanding.

I watched a video on YouTube yesterday that says that the story that is sometimes told where Jesus was just a "good person" or whatever is a myth circulated by atheists. Whatever. But if you take certain of his teachings, such as the Sermon on the Mount, yeah, that's real nice. You have to select ALL of his teachings pretty carefully, though, like Tek said. Like the rest of the Bible, most people remember the nice stuff and put aside the nasty or inconvenient stuff. I particularly like how people cite Leviticus when they say that homosexuality is an abomination, but don't seem to bother with the verse not long after the anti-gay one that forbids tattoos.

Posted by splumer But if you take certain of his teachings, such as the Sermon on the Mount, yeah, that's real nice. You have to select ALL of his teachings pretty carefully, though, like Tek said. Like the rest of the Bible, most people remember the nice stuff and put aside the nasty or inconvenient stuff.

I see no reason to take ALL information from the Bible. There is absolutely no reason that you would have to do that. The books of the bible were imagined, written, plagiarized, then selected and re-edited by committee over hundreds of years.

Taking what you want from the Bible is perfectly reasonable, just as is taking what you want from any other religion or philosophy. Why would you even entertain the parts that are obviously wrong, evil, and archaic?

Posted by MutantMandias Taking what you want from the Bible is perfectly reasonable, just as is taking what you want from any other religion or philosophy. Why would you even entertain the parts that are obviously wrong, evil, and archaic?

The question I've been asking believers for years, that none have answered, is how do you decide which parts to follow, and which not? Do you obey Lev. 18:22 (gaiety is an abomination), but not Lev. 19:28 (no tattoos)? I understand that most people don't follow the parts that are anachronistic, but then why do believers cling to verses like Lev. 18:22?

Posted by earthworm I'm sure I did. please reread:

I read it. Still doesn't say anything about Deism.

Posted by earthworm Also, I find it incredibly egotistical of you to turn a sentence starting with "this thread" into meaning "tek's posts".

Purple dishwasher monkey pants. What does that quote have to do with your point, or lack of one?

Posted by earthworm Wow, you must have the whole thing memorized! How long did you spend at the bible madrasah, or are just copying off wikipedia again? Eh, you're as much as waste of time as MrGreenJeans.

I may be a waste of time, but you value your time so much that you took the time to reply - what does that say about you?

Would it be too obvious to point out that whether I had memorized bible passages in a madrassa or copied them from wikipedia (of course, I did neither) is a red herring and serves only to distract attention from the fact that your post contains no evidence or coherent arguments and is nothing more than name calling.

...and if you don't believe me you are going to hell.

Posted by MrGreenJeans Funny that it's "cool" to insult catholics when its statistically more likely for a child to be molested at school than church.....

I would say your full of crap .... Statically it has been shown that when you look at ALL ORGANIZATIONS, there are NONE that come close to the level of degradation that the catholic church has done to children and continue to this day to cover up every chance they get. Since you claim to want to see some "facts. hows this one? How is this for a per capita statistic? An yes it is documented, it was in their own documentation in their bankruptcy filing! Many think this is probably a truer reflection of many dioceses than you think but due to the continued coverup it isn't as well known.


8,000 children raped by 100 church employees, 75 of them
priests? That’s 80 children raped per Archdiocese of Milwaukee employee.

As if these numbers weren’t sick enough, the Archdiocese is accused
of fraud, having revealed a list of 44 different pedophile priests in
2004. The church claimed that was the entire group of offenders, even as
they secretly protected the 100 other child-rapists in their employment
and hid upwards of $120 MILLION to avoid paying victims of sexual
abuse.

http://www.sodahea.../question-2452767/

Feel free to Google 8000 molested, you will get plenty of references .....

Posted by MrGreenJeans Funny that it's "cool" to insult catholics when its statistically more likely for a child to be molested at school than church.

Yeah at a Catholic School! Zing!

http://www.metacaf..._girls_in_trouble/

Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby Yeah at a Catholic School! Zing! http://www.metacaf..._girls_in_trouble/

I have no idea what the fuck I just watched.