UER Store order your copy of Access All Areas today! Activity 884 online Server Time: 2024-05-05 14:14:33 Visit Infiltration Access All Areas AvBrand

1 2  UER Forum > Archived Canada: Ontario > Oshawa: The New Detroit (Viewed 1730 times) davey  Location: Brock, Ontario Gender: Male  |  Re: Oshawa: The New Detroit <Reply # 20 on 11/23/2005 5:29 PM >   So, I live in Oshawa and am not sure If I should panic and sell my place to get the hell out. Thoughts? The opposite of courage in today's society is not cowardice, it is conformity. mortimer  Location: teronno  |  |  Re: Oshawa: The New Detroit <Reply # 21 on 11/23/2005 6:08 PM >   My prediction: Oshawa is the new Pickering, just like Caledon is the new Brampton. Wait 3 or 4 years, property values will skyrocket. yep. Duct Tape  Location: Toronto Gender: Male "The Handyman's Secret Weapon"  |  |  Re: Oshawa: The New Detroit <Reply # 22 on 11/23/2005 6:22 PM >   Posted by mortimer They're closing one of the two Oshawa plants, and eliminating one of the shifts at the other one. I'm not sure which one of the two was rated the top one, but one would assume that the workers at the company's top-rated plant would be getting paid the most, and would therefore be ripe for replacement in a lovely Mexican factory. Plant 2 is the highest rated plant, which is the one they are closing outright. Later DT "the ghosts of old buildings are haunting parking lots in the city of good neighbors that history forgot" - 'subdivision', Ani DiFranco ** Urbania - http://urbania.ohlphotos.com xen0   |  Re: Oshawa: The New Detroit <Reply # 23 on 11/23/2005 6:30 PM >   Here is the basic background info and breakdown why this is happening: -Oshawa plant was most productive with highest quality product -They made Pontiac Grand Prix and Buick Allure/Lacrosse -These models of cars are very unpopular now for several reasons but basically put they do not meet the demands of consumers -Having the highest productivity rate and highest quality product is great but if nobody wants it nothing else matters -Beacon project was and is a multimillion dollar project to reorganize factories so they can quickly convert from making one model to another, it requires both technological aspect and workers to be able to do this therefore it needs a good balance between technology and staff training -If beacon project succeeds, plants will not be shut down since it is cheaper to product cars in Canada as well as having an awesome employee base in Oshawa -Since its almost 4000 jobs being lost the services which support those 4000 workers will also disappear therefore around 10,000 to 20,000 jobs will be lost. Unlikely more than that because people are being laid off in a three year period so its gradual. Some speculate as much as 7 to 15 jobs being lost per each worker in GM plants but experience and previous similar events prove otherwise. -This will have a very great affect on the province as well as Canada in general but it will not lead to a depression, just a recession; Canada was due for one soon anyway. -As for Oshawa being a new detroit I highly doubt it since we are more prepared for this now and the Canadian government is trying hard to deal with this properly -If the Canadian government and GM play their cards right there will be almost no effect or a very minor one on the economy and GM -Reason General Motors is struggling is because of high petroleum prices (their cars guzzle gas, and a good portion of their market is powerful gas guzzling cars) as well as not being able to compete with Japanese cars which are cheaper and better so basically they are not making a good enough product anymore so they deserve to go out of business; and they will unless they have a miracle innovation or government intervention. mortimer  Location: teronno  |  |  Re: Oshawa: The New Detroit <Reply # 24 on 11/23/2005 6:45 PM >   as well as not being able to compete with Japanese cars which are cheaper and better so basically they are not making a good enough product anymore so they deserve to go out of business Not that I give two shits about cars, but LET THE FLAME WAR BEGIN!!11!!!11 yep. Agent Skelly  Web Sheriff Location: Oregon Territory Gender: Male Prenez De L'Avance Avec Chrysler!  |  |  |  |  Re: Oshawa: The New Detroit <Reply # 25 on 11/23/2005 7:39 PM >   Posted by xen0 Here is the basic background info and breakdown why this is happening: -Oshawa plant was most productive with highest quality product -They made Pontiac Grand Prix and Buick Allure/Lacrosse -These models of cars are very unpopular now for several reasons but basically put they do not meet the demands of consumers -Having the highest productivity rate and highest quality product is great but if nobody wants it nothing else matters -Beacon project was and is a multimillion dollar project to reorganize factories so they can quickly convert from making one model to another, it requires both technological aspect and workers to be able to do this therefore it needs a good balance between technology and staff training -If beacon project succeeds, plants will not be shut down since it is cheaper to product cars in Canada as well as having an awesome employee base in Oshawa -Since its almost 4000 jobs being lost the services which support those 4000 workers will also disappear therefore around 10,000 to 20,000 jobs will be lost. Unlikely more than that because people are being laid off in a three year period so its gradual. Some speculate as much as 7 to 15 jobs being lost per each worker in GM plants but experience and previous similar events prove otherwise. My father used to have a friend who worked at the old AMC Plant in Kenosha, WI and I remember him telling my father that it was pain to retool the plant for a new or different car. He said it would bascially take the entire summer to do so. Father Maurice Lester  Noble Donor Location: York Region Gender: Male Da numba one  |  |  Re: Oshawa: The New Detroit <Reply # 26 on 11/23/2005 9:24 PM >   GM, Ford and Chrysler are still paying the price for the crap they produced in the 80s and early 90s. They began turning their reliability issues around and now many of their models can compete with the Japanese in quality. However, they still push and market cars which guzzle the gas. The japanese are true experts in producing higher horsepower and reliable 4 cylinder engines. The big 3 have not followed suit and produce cars which, while vastly improved reliability still suck gas like water. Who wants to spend $80 to fill your tank every week when you can by a Corrolla, Camry, Accord or Civic and fill it for less than half of that and get a car that has the best probability of minimal repair costs? [last edit 11/23/2005 9:30 PM by Father Maurice Lester - edited 2 times] Duke  Noble Donor Location: Awww-shitby, Ontario Gender: Male Move it or lose it  |  Re: Oshawa: The New Detroit <Reply # 27 on 11/23/2005 10:31 PM >   Yeah my Dad works for GM, according to the newsletter they have a new plant in Lansing, which is why they'll have no trouble shutting down Oshawa. But the important thing to remember is the impact this will have on the feeder plants. Johnson Controls and Automodular make parts for the cars built in the plant being shut down. sweeet. <: \ Contrary to popular belief, death isn't just for dead people. I know I was surprised too! It can happen to anybody! Horses, fiddler crabs, even a potato can die! - Tick bandi  Lippy Mechanic Bastard Location: Trent Hills, ON Gender: Male A liminal mind is all I've ever known.  |  |  Re: Oshawa: The New Detroit <Reply # 28 on 11/24/2005 12:27 AM >   This wouldn't be happening if they knew how to build a decent car... I just don't think replacing a pair of $350 a piece wheel bearings with every oil change on a Blazer is fun. Or a fuel pump on the same vehicle- $800. Plus labour. Or an astro van ignition coil... or a Sunfire lockup solenoid. Sorry, but GM is going the way of AMC... as the Toronto Sun said, if GM had one desirable vehicle in there 50 some car lineup, they might not be having these problems. In contrast... Toyota, who now has the market share in North America, will probably own GM in a few years, so maybe all these people won't be out of a job. hi i like cars xen0   |  Re: Oshawa: The New Detroit <Reply # 29 on 11/24/2005 5:10 AM >   Skelly is right, it does take a very long time to retool the factory to build another model car but thats why so much money is being poured into the beacon project; if successful it would be able to compete with Japanese cars on a different plain therefore survive for long enough to turn their reputation and designed around. If worst comes to worst, although they deserve to go out of business its unlikely they will due to the affect on the economy and control on the market therefore they would receive tax breaks, government grants or competition would back down a bit so they do not look like a monopoly; as we seen in the past. Bottom line is that GM needs to get their shit straight, and the other two should also stop fucking around, although a very loyal customer base that CAN change if they keep this up. lopix  Location: Ontario Gender: Male I survive on the poison you're feeding me  |  |  Re: Oshawa: The New Detroit <Reply # 30 on 11/24/2005 4:58 PM >   I think a big point people are missing is the effect of unions. I hope Buzz Hargrove is happy, he managed to get wages so high for his members that now the company cannot afford to pay them anymore. Last round of contract talks, GM said they were hurting for money, which of course the union explains away as lies. Well, seems they weren't lying. Now, they can take those high wages to the EI lineup. Way to go Buzz, vote him in for a longer term - heck, give him a raise while you're at it! (Yes, I have worked for a union before, 5.5 years, never thought they did s**t for me except threaten strikes, and thus my paycheque) And we also have to face the fact that US cars suck. Seriously, maybe Dodge can compete, but when was the last time you drove past a GM or Ford dealer and actually coveted something on the lot? I drive a Pontiac, but that is because I am not made of money and can't afford the BMW or even Honda Accord that I would much prefer. If they can't compete, if they can't build cars that consumers want, then this is what happens. They go broke. I mean there is even talk in the papers of GM declaring bankruptcy. They are denying it, but the fact that they have even mentioned it means it is more than a BS rumour. It will have an effect, but spread out over time, it won't be that bad. A friend works for EI and he is trying to transfer to Oshawa to deal with all the influx, which means more people hired by the government to process these folks. So it will balance out, in a way. Will property values plummet? No, why would they? Sure, a rise in unemployment can have an effect, but it will be local and minimized. With housing prices so high west of Oshawa, there are enough people wanting cheaper housing that the minute and ex-GM worker puts his house up, there will be a buyer. They won't be firesaleing them, trust me. GM needs to look at what people are driving and cater to that desire. How many buicks can they sell to 65-year-old dudes with belts up to their armpits? Seriously... Or relaunching old names stuck onto barely different bodies. How many Impala clones are there? A few different pieces of sheetmetal does not a new car make. How many different SUVs can ou sell? concentrate on making decent vehicles that consumers want and you will make money. Maybe it is time for GM to copy what the Japanese are doing, now that they have learned it better than the original 3 ever did... I'm not angry - just focused :: No human opinion is higher than the truth http://www.lopix.com :: http://www.dkphotogroup.com Tainted Freak  Location: Nirvana Gender: Female  |  |  Re: Oshawa: The New Detroit <Reply # 31 on 12/6/2005 10:11 PM >   Who would honestly want to really live in Oshawa??? I have only lived here for almost 2 years and I have never met such rude and mean people. And there is nothing nice to look at, I mean you can't go to a park cause there are freaking crackheads everywhere.... I dunno i'm just a country girl that was moved out into the city and really wish to be back in the real world, where you breathe in fresh air and not smog every day The tongue like a sharp knife... Kills without drawing blood fedge  Location: Gaud Corners, Ontario, Canada Gender: Male you blight up my life™®  |  |  Re: Oshawa: The New Detroit <Reply # 32 on 12/6/2005 10:47 PM >   Tainted Freak, hop the Oshawa border and we'll show ya some Clarington goodness. Lots to explore here too! [last edit 12/6/2005 10:47 PM by fedge - edited 1 times] 18-odd Years Of UER-ing! -MisfitStyle-   |  Re: Oshawa: The New Detroit <Reply # 33 on 12/6/2005 11:09 PM >   Posted by fedge Tainted Freak, hop the Oshawa border and we'll show ya some Clarington goodness. Lots to explore here too! Good call. "I feel like I just got in a battle of wits with some kid in a helmet I found licking a window." Need help? Please use the Contact a Mod forum — I'm slow to see PMs. Agent Skelly  Web Sheriff Location: Oregon Territory Gender: Male Prenez De L'Avance Avec Chrysler!  |  |  |  |  Re: Oshawa: The New Detroit <Reply # 34 on 12/7/2005 12:59 AM >   Posted by Tainted Freak Who would honestly want to really live in Oshawa??? I have only lived here for almost 2 years and I have never met such rude and mean people. And there is nothing nice to look at, I mean you can't go to a park cause there are freaking crackheads everywhere.... I dunno i'm just a country girl that was moved out into the city and really wish to be back in the real world, where you breathe in fresh air and not smog every day As a American dating a girl from the Durham Region of Ontario (lol), I've been to Oshawa once and I don't see whats wrong the people or anything. I also don't see whats wrong Whitby either other than the fact that Whitby Transit System hasn't changed their bus frequencies in like 30 years. Edit: You all make it sound like Oshawa is New Jersey or something... [last edit 12/7/2005 1:02 AM by Agent Skelly - edited 1 times] rainman8889  Location: H.T.S.F.C. Time to gain and a time to lose. Bye for now.  |  Re: Oshawa: The New Detroit <Reply # 35 on 12/7/2005 1:35 AM >   Posted by Tainted Freak Who would honestly want to really live in Oshawa??? I have only lived here for almost 2 years and I have never met such rude and mean people. And there is nothing nice to look at, I mean you can't go to a park cause there are freaking crackheads everywhere.... I dunno i'm just a country girl that was moved out into the city and really wish to be back in the real world, where you breathe in fresh air and not smog every day I lived there for 28 years and loved it Tainted Freak. Oshawa was a lot nicer then. People were, at the very least, civil and the city was a great place for a young family to start out. Downtown was really cool to go to (had four theatres at the time) and the city was a lot cleaner. The downtown started going down hill when a lot of industries moved out (there was a lot more than the Motors although the Motors was 'King'.) The four downtown theatres were allowed to close down, a lot of night clubs that were poorly ran sprang up and the rot only speeded up. Hopefully, reopening the Regent theatre can stop that and start the recovery. Strange thing was that a friend of mine from the old neighbourhood was telling me that the neighbourhood was not the same after I moved out. At the time, our subdivision was at the edge of the city, and not the sardine subdivisions of today. We were the first family to live in that house and things were very different then. We had a lot of woods to explore and a lot of different wildlife to check out. The large tree in our front yard had a family of Robins every year (I spent many hours watching the chicks hatching and being reared by their parents) and we even had a cow walking down the street one day until her owner caught up with her. The people my parents sold it to are still there. My friend considers them a bunch of idiots and the few times I encountered them has proven him right. Goes to show how a community can change for the worse eh? The Oshawa you see today is nothing like the Oshawa that I grew up in. Gone for a while. Be back when I'm back. oshawa_ue  Location: Oshawa Gender: Male  |  |  Re: Oshawa: The New Detroit <Reply # 36 on 12/10/2005 4:14 PM >   to be honest the gm thing is a horrible shame but on the upside of things...how amazing would that plant(s) be to explore...ive been in there once and i was amazed at just the machinery and the vastness of the place †DÄMIEN† Tainted Freak  Location: Nirvana Gender: Female  |  |  Re: Oshawa: The New Detroit <Reply # 37 on 12/10/2005 5:17 PM >   See i have only been in Oshawa for almost 2 years, big change for a country girl. But, I honestly feel very sorry for those ppl who are going to be without jobs, cause alot of those ppl are ones that bus it and stuff, so i mean they are going to be screwed and honestly there isn't anything else in oshawa, well unless you want to down grade and work in retail. And t is rediculous to bus it back and forth to anywhere other then whitby, and there isnt much there either. Its unfortunate and i feel really really bad for these ppl The tongue like a sharp knife... Kills without drawing blood sikkbones   |  Re: Oshawa: The New Detroit <Reply # 38 on 12/11/2005 8:46 PM >   are we talking about the GM plant at division and agnes? www.459.betrayer.ca UER Forum > Archived Canada: Ontario > Oshawa: The New Detroit (Viewed 1730 times)  1 2  All content and images copyright © 2002-2024 UER.CA and respective creators. Graphical Design by Crossfire. To contact webmaster, or click to email with problems or other questions about this site: UER CONTACT View Terms of Service | View Privacy Policy | Server colocation provided by Beanfield This page was generated for you in 203 milliseconds. Since June 23, 2002, a total of 740648012 pages have been generated.