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 Intrinsic
      
Location: Collingwood
Gender: Male
 |  | Re: ROE, the Rules of Engagement
<Reply # 20 on 12/23/2010 9:17 PM >
|  | | | Posted by hydrotherapy
Smoking in abandonments is filthy, disgusting, adds to the heightened risk of mesothelioma, clouds shots, and is generally frowned upon in general urbex circles, regardless of whether or not it may get you out of possible rape situations with the destitute.
I suggest you rethink this scenario.
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So would smoking in your own home not be filthy and disgusting?
As far as I'm concerned, inhaling the toxic additives from cigarettes or any other dried leaf product into your lungs is filthy and disgusting. Smoking is a burden on the health-care system.
[last edit 12/23/2010 9:39 PM by Intrinsic - edited 1 times]
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Hephaestus
Location: Barrie
Gender: Male
Life is what you make of it.
| | Re: ROE, the Rules of Engagement
<Reply # 21 on 12/23/2010 10:06 PM >
| | | | Wolfman, points well taken. I was just an active observer and just thought the forum and myself can learn from this open discussion.
Intrinsic, what do you think we should do about smoking then? I know im my country the government has taxed this product heavily and if there were no more cigarettes the government would lose a lot of revenue. Also this void would be filled with blackmarket products that may or may not be properly regulated or processed. Sure it is a burden on the health care system but so is extreme sports, food, drug and alcohol abuse. It boils down to that one word, abuse. In moderation a lot of products can be consumed without too much serious consequences and this is not an endorsement of any kind to take any kind to do such. All I am saying is that if we do not abuse our bodies we then there would not be a burden on the health care system. As for hydrotherapy's comment, it probably meant that that activity is filthy and disgusting in any enviroment. Everyone is entitled to an opinion... If you could, would you ban smoking? If the answer is yes, then how would you deal with the indigenous cultures in North America whose culture is steeped in tobacco?
Life is measured not by how many breaths you take but by the moments that take your breath away... |
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Intrinsic
Location: Collingwood
Gender: Male
| | Re: ROE, the Rules of Engagement
<Reply # 22 on 12/23/2010 11:41 PM >
| | | | Posted by Hephaestus
Intrinsic, what do you think we should do about smoking then? I know im my country the government has taxed this product heavily and if there were no more cigarettes the government would lose a lot of revenue.
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Fuck the Ontario government and their revenue. They already have their HST, their casinos, their gas tax, their OLG (government run gambling) and sin tax on liquor.
I work for the Ontario government, and I'll say it again... fuck them. 
(Although I work Christmas day and Boxing day at time and a half wages)
The Canadian government makes about $9 billion in taxes from cigarettes every year. These same governments also launch multibillion-dollar lawsuits against tobacco companies to recover costs associated with health care.
Hypocrisy at it's best.
How to deal with it? Round up everyone who smokes and send them to a deserted island where there are no tobacco plants, no lighters, no matches, only fresh fruit and vegetables. Come back in a year and see how many have broken the habit.
I don't have a serious answer as to how to solve the problem. I only have an opinion that it's a disgusting habit and I want to barf when someone walks by me and smells of that shit.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread...
[last edit 12/23/2010 11:44 PM by Intrinsic - edited 1 times]
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jeepdave
  
Location: Anderson, SC
Gender: Male
It's also a gun.
| | Re: ROE, the Rules of Engagement
<Reply # 23 on 1/1/2011 1:24 AM >
| | | | From experience, blunt truth tends to catch cops off guard. It has gotten me out of many tickets I deserved, and a ride home, instead of a ride to jail. Never been busted UE but I will use that there also. The only exception is if I have others with me. I don't rat.
Remember, its not a lie if you believe it, or can justify it to yourself. So if they ask you if anyone else is with you, think about the fact your the only one there with the cop, so honestly, no one else is with you. These little thoughts can keep your body from telling the cop the truth.
[last edit 1/1/2011 1:26 AM by jeepdave - edited 1 times]
Ezekiel 25:17 |
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Jonno23
Location: Phoenix, Az, Sector zz9 Plural Z Alpha
Gender: Male
This space for rent
| | Re: ROE, the Rules of Engagement
<Reply # 24 on 1/30/2011 8:17 AM >
| | | | So, let me get this straight....
You have been on one outing with 15 or more people?
Things are different every time I go out. I never would go out with a group that large to a monitored location, which is what it sounds like you went to. Otherwise, there wouldnt have been such a need for all the sneakiness, and constant ducking to avoid being discovered. There are no standard ROE with explores. Every damn one is different and calls for different ways of dealing with that. If you arent a photography guy and you have a camera, and you meet up with a cop and in the course of your conversation he starts chatting you up about taking pics (happened to me once), what do you do if you dont know anything? That will make you seem more suspicious. Don't take "props" on explorations. All the damn time people post on here about wearing hardhats and vests, carrying clipboards and whatnot. So what do you do when someone actually confronts you and knows that you are not what you are portraying yourself to be? You immediately raise the suspicion level as to what the hell you are doing there. You are going to get yourself detained, questioned, and when you do actually try to tell them the truth, that you are just there to look at an old building, why the hell would they believe you? You have ruined any credibility with wearing a costume to try to disguise yourself. Just wear decent clothes that dont stand out so you can still somewhat hide, but that if you are in fact seen, you can simply say "Hey, I was just having a look around cause I am really in to this kind of stuff. Sorry, I didn't mean to be a cause for concern." Explain yourself, and most of the time you will be okay as long as you are just exploring, not infiltrating an active site. Those rules dont apply to infiltration, cause in almost all cases you are fucked if caught on an infiltration.
I truly don't mean to sound like a dick, because I would welcome anyone who truly has an interest in this. (I was new to this years and years ago as well) But don't come on a forum, tell people you recently went on your very first exploration, and then proceed to write a long post on how to properly conduct yourself while out exploring. That kind of stuff normally doesn't work out so well.
Im pretty surprised this hasn't been taken to a whole new level of bashing to be honest.
Blah Blah Blah. Shut up and open the damn door.
"It's ok Officer, I watch a lot of cop shows on tv, so i am practically one of you guys." - sadly, that didn't work.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonno23/ All my photos suck. |
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WEKurtz
Location: Western MA
Gender: Male
| | Re: ROE, the Rules of Engagement
<Reply # 25 on 1/30/2011 9:30 AM >
| | | | And no posts more than 500 words long.
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Jonno23
Location: Phoenix, Az, Sector zz9 Plural Z Alpha
Gender: Male
This space for rent
| | Re: ROE, the Rules of Engagement
<Reply # 26 on 1/30/2011 10:36 AM >
| | | | 440. I made the cut off.
Blah Blah Blah. Shut up and open the damn door.
"It's ok Officer, I watch a lot of cop shows on tv, so i am practically one of you guys." - sadly, that didn't work.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonno23/ All my photos suck. |
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\/adder
Location: DunkarooLand
Gender: Male
I'm the worst of the best but I'm in this race.
| |  | Re: ROE, the Rules of Engagement
<Reply # 27 on 1/30/2011 2:43 PM >
| | | | Posted by Jonno23
So, let me get this straight....
You have been on one outing with 15 or more people?
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Yes. Multiple times. Never been busted though.
Everyone could run and they might be able to grab one or two people or everyone could turn around and stand together: I don't know what a cop or pair of cops would do: probably let us all go after he's sure we haven't stolen or vandalized anything.
What can one or two cops do against 15 people? In a small town they don't have enough officers to arrest that many; even if they got state troopers in to do the assist.
Let me give an example: The town I work in, at 10pm on a saturday night the local cops have 2 cruisers out and another two guys at the station, there's four state troopers spread out over the entire county and probably another two at the barracks. One cop has to stay at each station.
That gives them two cop cars in ten minutes, possibly another cop car in twenty, if they are lucky they can get one statie in fifteen minutes and another in 30 minutes, the other two they really can't afford to take off their positions but let's say they do, 45, and 60 minutes.
It'd take them over an hour to acquire the man power to arrest half that many people. Logistics are damning.
The game changes in places like NYC but in general, exploring in groups has a higher chance of being caught, but there only so much they can do...
[last edit 1/30/2011 2:49 PM by \/adder - edited 1 times]
"No risk, no reward, no fun."
"Go all the way or walk away"
escensi omnis... |
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MindHacker
Location: Suburbs of DC
Gender: Male
If you spot a terrorist arrow, pin it to the wall with your shoulder.
| | Re: ROE, the Rules of Engagement
<Reply # 28 on 1/30/2011 7:36 PM >
| | | | Posted by TheVicariousVadder
What can one or two cops do against 15 people?
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Park you in, and then run everyone's information. I've seen one cop show up for 20+ of us (soapboxing) and I've seen 4 cops in separate cars and a dog show up for 3 explorers. It doesn't change all that much if you're planning to be (mostly) cooperative, but if you're going to run, then it turns into playing the odds.
Also, if you're giving cops >20 minutes response time and they need manpower, they can call up people from home or across county lines. Unlikely for urbex, but...
Posted by Jonno23 If you arent a photography guy and you have a camera, and you meet up with a cop and in the course of your conversation he starts chatting you up about taking pics (happened to me once), what do you do if you dont know anything?
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You're "just getting into photography" and "still learning the basics." A nice camera is a massive credibility prop that, assuming you aren't retarded and/or in a sensitive environment, cannot backfire.
Hardhats, clipboards, and high-vis jackets drive up both risk and reward, and not always in the same heavily skewed ratio the camera does.
[last edit 1/30/2011 7:39 PM by MindHacker - edited 1 times]
"That's just my opinion. I would, however, advocate for explosive breaching, since speed and looking cool are both concerns in my job."-Wilkinshire |
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TheWolfman269
Location: Nashville, Tennessee
Gender: Male
If it looks like a wolf, acts like a wolf, and howls like a wolf, it's probably an asshole.
| | | Re: ROE, the Rules of Engagement
<Reply # 29 on 1/31/2011 6:26 AM >
| | | | Posted by Jonno23
Im pretty surprised this hasn't been taken to a whole new level of bashing to be honest.
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I've been working on behaving myself more. New year's resolution or some crap like that. Don't worry. It won't last. ;)
"I've got military training, a giant crowbar, and I've already been shot. What can really stop me?" - Myself |
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Jonno23
Location: Phoenix, Az, Sector zz9 Plural Z Alpha
Gender: Male
This space for rent
| | Re: ROE, the Rules of Engagement
<Reply # 30 on 1/31/2011 6:55 AM >
| | | | Posted by TheVicariousVadder
Yes. Multiple times. Never been busted though.
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I was referring more to the fact that he has been on only 1 explore, and then was writing down rules for going out. I was trying to be civil and explain that it is different every time, especially with large vs. small groups.
Blah Blah Blah. Shut up and open the damn door.
"It's ok Officer, I watch a lot of cop shows on tv, so i am practically one of you guys." - sadly, that didn't work.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonno23/ All my photos suck. |
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Macie
Gender: Female
| | Re: ROE, the Rules of Engagement
<Reply # 32 on 5/2/2011 10:35 PM >
| | | | I'm new to this group explore thing. Really new actually so I'm still seeing how it all works but I agree with the buddy thing.
Usually it's just me with a few close friends, no big deal, go in, explore, take pictures, get out, go eat.
But going in with other explorer, not friends has it's advantages, no naggers who wanna complain or hang on my arm and no bragging the next day to people that didn't go, I like that freedom no babysitting! plus people I can learn stuff from.
I've read this post and agree it's crazy to coordinate 15 people with different attitudes on a trip, so really you just need to find one like minded person on the trip who wants to stick around you and you can keep an eye out for each other. I'd appreciate that. I've also run into that problem of some of the group not being ready to leave and I'm soooo done with the place. What's the thought? Can I tell people I'm taking off and leave? Or does that draw more attention to the POE and is therefore frowned upon?
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