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DevilC
Location: Washington, District of Corruption Gender: Male Total Likes: 202 likes
I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their views.
| | | | Debunking 9/11 Myths < on 8/25/2006 5:01 PM > | Reply with Quote
| | | Healthy skepticism, it seems, has curdled into paranoia. Wild conspiracy tales are peddled daily on the Internet, talk radio and in other media. Blurry photos, quotes taken out of context and sketchy eyewitness accounts have inspired a slew of elaborate theories: The Pentagon was struck by a missile; The World Trade Center was razed by demolition-style bombs; Flight 93 was shot down by a mysterious white jet. As outlandish as these claims may sound, they are increasingly accepted abroad and among extremists here in the United States. Please read two excellent pieces written about 9/11 myths and urban legends. Full article: http://www.popular...fense/1227842.htmlBlog: http://www.popular.../blog/911mythsblog
| Science flies you to the Moon. Religion flies you into tall buildings. |
| KublaKhan
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland Total Likes: 207 likes
With Satan, it's always gimmie, gimmie.
| | | Re: Debunking 9/11 Myths < Reply # 1 on 8/25/2006 11:02 PM > | Reply with Quote
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| "The truth is knowable. But probably not, ever, incontrovertible." --Don DeLillo PICS |
| Ranar
Location: norcal Gender: Male Total Likes: 1 like
| | | Re: Debunking 9/11 Myths < Reply # 3 on 11/2/2007 2:48 AM > | Reply with Quote
| | | Posted by DevilC The Pentagon was struck by a missile; The World Trade Center was razed by demolition-style bombs;
| First off PM did a great article and thanks for posting it. Second the first time I heard about the missile theory I wanted to punch out the kid for being a complete and total duchebag idiot.Just common sense debunks that myth. Third IDK why but these conspiracies get me REALLY mad. It just seems like they are all coming out of America hating left wing nuts(like the kid above). I personal am enthralled by things such as Roswell and high ranking gov cover ups but this is just f***ing dumb, seeing as most of it is baseless accusations and something me being a high school student can disprove. my 2 cents
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| underdark
Gender: Male Total Likes: 8 likes
| | | Re: Debunking 9/11 Myths < Reply # 6 on 3/1/2008 2:34 AM > | Reply with Quote
| | | Posted by Sinister Crayon Popular mechanics? Puhlease. Their debunking is questionable at best. The entire thing about jetfuel down the util shafts and elevator shafts is not feasible in a Class A building.
Please define common sense? My dad was a commercial pilot for 32 years and flew 757 and 767 aircraft and part of his job is to know the limits of that plane, and what the government said that plane did was beyond it's limits. That is common sense and does not debunk that myth at all.
Roswell? You're telling me that you think the government is more likely to have aliens than be able to demolish to buildings?
| #1- Popular Mechanics. The math works. End statement. #2- Friend of mine works in D.C. and watched the plane come in. Real easy to see it, since it was the size of a plane. Missiles are really hard to see coming in, since they are small. Like the size of a missile. #3- I think the poster was pointing out that sometimes conspiracy bullshit is at least amusing to run through. I personally like toying around with JFK stuff from time to time. But most of the fun ones are old, beyond solving, and at this point rather pointless. 9/11 bullshit is all bullshit, and it is little more than a distraction from the real issue. Don't get me wrong. I know that any government with an agenda will do whatever it feels necicary to forward it. I don't think 3000+ people is a bodycount that would even slow down commited nationalists. But blasting a fucking crater in your own economy by shutting down Manhattan for weeks? A commited nationalist would pick a site with a high social value and bodycount, but little or no economic value. Still get the propaganda value, but without the $$$ damage system-wide. Crash a jet into a packed football stadium or NASCAR track. Max bodycount, televised destruction, and 0 impact on the national economy. That is the kind of target you want for a media event/excuse. And even then, it isn't the best plan. If you have enough people you trust on hand to pull off 9/11, then you can stage any sort of event to keep people fired up. Need continuing public support for your really stupid invation? Pick up a couple of known terrorists (we have a few we're holding these days I hear), pop them and some weapons into a secured area (New London sub pens? or a nuke power plant? The list is long...), kill them, kill some on-site people... PRESTO! The terrorists are at it again. Time to step up our offensives overseas and cut back on a few more personal freedoms! All in the name of security. Mix it up a bit, do it for five or six years and they will be so traumatized the people will be begging you to take all the guns and tattoo numbers on their foreheads to ensure their safty. But they didn't do that when they lost popular support. Which leads me to question the existance of the team needed to pull off 9/11. Kinda makes me think Ockham's razor is once again the answer.
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| Shael
Location: Witherbee, NY. Gender: Female Total Likes: 7 likes
Baaaaah.
| | | Re: Debunking 9/11 Myths < Reply # 7 on 3/3/2008 1:34 AM > | Reply with Quote
| | | The thing is, would you put it past the government to do something like this? That's the biggest question of all. Also, I'm sure everyone's heard about the insurance policy what's his name took out on the towers, about the investigations that the collapses managed to stop...because paperwork was miraculously destroyed without there being other copies elsewhere. About hijackers that were supposedly killed who miraculously were found later, alive, kicking and travelling outside of the US. About the passport that amazingly survived when most of the aircraft did not? There were Securities and Exchange Commission documents, among other things that were destroyed when these buildings collapsed. Not to mention other evidence in other large investigations, where people who were and are in power could have gone to jail for a very very very long time for illegal trading and other SEC rules infractions. Even the mockery that the 9/11 commission made of the event with their so called investigation run by Mr. Conspiracy himself, Henry Kissenger, that didn't even look at half of the evidence or witness testimony. Not every voice that had something to say was heard, even though they made a promise to the American people to find the truth. I'm not saying that it was a planned demolition, or a planned anything other than a terrorist attack, there's just a lot of coincidences, too many to make this something planned by a few arabs who can barely fly commercial aircraft. Shael
| "The best wine lies at the bottom of the pail/And Happiness lies below the navel." - Drukpa Kunley, "The Divine Madman of the Dragon Lineage" and "Saint of 5,000 Women". |
| JarekN
Gender: Male Total Likes: 0 likes
| | | | Re: Debunking 9/11 Myths < Reply # 8 on 11/22/2008 6:29 PM > | Reply with Quote
| | | Hi everyone I am kind of new here so I'll start off slowly... In my opinion the question that needs to be asked is -Who had the most to gain from the incident? And why go to such lengths and not create a different type of attack... There are many more much simple ways to attack population in a city. Hijacking planes and flying them into buildings requires a lot of work and the risk of something going wrong is much higher. Not to mention that other ways could kill much larger portion of the population. With that being said some of them are kind of hard to control which could lead to 'wrong' people dieing... I know it might be hard for people to think that their government could do such things but after all it's not the first time they have done so...
| JarekN http://www.JarekN.com |
| willskith
Location: Boston, MA Gender: Male Total Likes: 5 likes
| | | | | Re: Debunking 9/11 Myths < Reply # 11 on 11/25/2008 7:46 PM > | Reply with Quote
| | | YOU ARE ALL WRONG!
| grit your teeth in the face of fear. self repression is the true sign of a coward, toss your inhibitions to the wind. |
| JarekN
Gender: Male Total Likes: 0 likes
| | | | Re: Debunking 9/11 Myths < Reply # 14 on 11/26/2008 9:31 AM > | Reply with Quote
| | | Posted by underdark
That would be the attacker. At least as far as they are concerned. A large chunk of the uneducated fundys of the world think getting killed while killing those that don't worship the same god the same way makes god love you more and give you free shit for all eternity. That is why ignorant twits of various denominations have whacked themselves all over the world in more or less sucsesful (or not) attempts to kill off some nobelivers. Fucking up their economey in the process would be icing on the cake. | I agree with you that it was the attacker - however it is the government that had the most to gain from it... As a result everyone just forgot about their constitution and was happy to give up the rights - all in the name of so called 'safety.' There is no way the terrorist act would have passed otherwise... Lets also not forget the increase in budget to fight the so called enemy... The whole religion thing is blown out of proportion - trust me it's not like people around the world have nothing better to do... I've got friends from all over the place of I would say every single religion and all of them want the same thing - to live in peace and have a chance at life... It is the corrupted corporate media that would have you believe otherwise which only shows what works for them... Lets not forget that each religion has their fair amount of idiots who go out of line... Many parts of the Talmud or Bible might make you wonder how anyone can actually follow either of those teachings... No, if you think about it, fyling a 375,000 pound missle loaded with up to 52, 410 gallons of highly flamable liquid on board is a great way to attack a city.And by taking over in flight, you avoid the whole pesky, technical parts. Like being able to need to actually fly the thing. Since the plane is easy to capture (hijacking planes only went out of fashion in this countty when people realized that it was hard to get anything out of it and get away. Google D.B. Cooper), getting the missle isn't nearly as hard as compiling that much amonium nitrate/diesel fuel mix, or weaponized anthrax. And transportation is a snap. All you need is some nutjobs that think dying for god is a great way to get laid for all eternity.
| Incorrect - First of all don't think that there was no security at the airport before... I've been traveling for many years and while it maybe wasn't as strict as today it was always there. (I would actually be very curious as to how many terrorists they have caught each year... better yet see a graph of spendings vs terrorists busted.) Second the training required to fly those plains and the ability to fly them into specific buildings isn't something one just gets easily... Not to mention that the skills of the pilot were questioned. Also why weren't those plains shot down as per protocol? One doesn't need anthrax or anything as complicated to kill thousands of people... Anyone who studied chemistry with creative mind could cause far more damage if he wanted to... There is just way too much wrong with the official story for me to buy it... You're new. You haven't seen the level of cynicism that runs rampant on this board. Nobody here has expressed any douts about the capacity of a government to whack it's own people just to make a point (not that I recall, anyway). What I dout is their ability to do it and keep it quiet. Google Watergate. Or Iran/contra. Or Inslaw. Never underestimate the danger of any bunch of nutjobs that think god is on their side. Or overestimate the ability of the government to keep a secret that would require hundreds of people to shut up forever.
| It is easy to shut up tons of people or have them say what they should when you have unlimited budget. I do not want to speculate on the number of people this project would require but I am sure that it would be containable and doable. I have been anti-government/police/military for as long as I can remember, frankly I think they do more bad then good The war on Terrorism is a joke, it is there to justify the multi-billion spendings on 'invisible' enemy so that selected few can get more money and power. I have a friend who works at YYZ and even he was joking last time about the security procedures at the airport... How many so called terrorists have we found with all that new and expensive equipment they have installed? Does anyone really feel any safer then before? I for one don't... What I do feel is rage that I am treated like a criminal, asked to take off my shoes, my belt and what not just because people do not use their brains but instead allow the government to do what it wants which leads to increased security and more restrictions that in turn never SOLVES the problem in the first place... The cold war is over, now we have war on terrorism - which in theory could go on forever - after all any talk against the government could be considered act of terrorism... And it is very easy to create incident that would make it seem as the threat is really there... What's next? We'll get told that aliens are coming so we'll need to spend billions of dollars on that? If that money were to spend on education and improving peoples lives just think of how different things could be... Reality is it will never happen, the amount of money being made during wars and such missions is just too large for things to ever change. There is no profit (or very little) to be made in helping people... Not sure how many of you have seen Zeitgeist: Addendum... If you haven't please check it out and send it to your friends http://video.googl...065205277695921912
[last edit 11/26/2008 9:38 AM by JarekN - edited 2 times]
| JarekN http://www.JarekN.com |
| underdark
Gender: Male Total Likes: 8 likes
| | | Re: Debunking 9/11 Myths < Reply # 16 on 11/28/2008 6:16 AM > | Reply with Quote
| | | Posted by JarekN Lets not forget that each religion has their fair amount of idiots who go out of line... Many parts of the Talmud or Bible might make you wonder how anyone can actually follow either of those teachings...
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You will note I never mentioned anyones religon by name. That is because there are dangerous asshats killing non-belivers in about every group of followers of every invisible friend. I have a pretty fair amount of distain for anyone that thinks their myth is cool enough to be used as a basis for domestic/foriegn policy, taught in school with my tax dollars, or used as an excuse to kill people. Posted by JarekN Incorrect - First of all don't think that there was no security at the airport before... I've been traveling for many years and while it maybe wasn't as strict as today it was always there. (I would actually be very curious as to how many terrorists they have caught each year... better yet see a graph of spendings vs terrorists busted.)
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There was security. And it was geared to prevent people with knives and guns and bombs from boarding a plane. Box cutters were NOT restricted items at the time. I had flown for years prior to 9/11 with a Leatherman on my belt without incident. The rules were bullshit because domestic flights were no longer considered a target for skyjacking. No one had pulled off a succesful one since Cooper. Every other domestic attempt ended with the death or capture of the hijackers. Please note the word domestic in the above. International flights are a totally diffrent issue. Posted by JarekN Second the training required to fly those plains and the ability to fly them into specific buildings isn't something one just gets easily... Not to mention that the skills of the pilot were questioned. Also why weren't those plains shot down as per protocol?
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Several terrorists are documented as attending flight schools, and doing poorly. Of course you score poorly when you are only interested in 1/3 of the instructional material. If all you have to do is follow a compas bearing and then floor it after you line up the target, the level of brains required drops to "not much". Sorry, but there is a hell of alot of tech in there designed to make the operation of the aircraft as simple as possible (Frank William Abagnale, Jr. springs to mind). As for shooting them down, no comercial plane that has been hijacked in the US has ever been shot down before. Until they started hitting things I'm sure nobody even considered it. And by then there was only one left in PA. Which some think was shot down. Posted by JarekN One doesn't need anthrax or anything as complicated to kill thousands of people... Anyone who studied chemistry with creative mind could cause far more damage if he wanted to...
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As a former USMC combat engineer with alot of explosives handling experiance I have to say that you are right and wrong. You are correct that home chemistry can produce explosives, incindaries, poison gasses, and other forms of quality entertainment, but massive production in the volumes needed is out of reach of any small group. The IRA and Columbian drug cartels mounted bombing campaigns on a much more massive scale with many time the personel in play and (in the case of the cartels) billions of dollars to work with. The 9/11 crew was about twenty guys with a couple hundred grand to work with. If Pablo Escobar and company couldn't make a mess this grand, these guys weren't gonna. Bulk purchases of materials needed to make the huge amounts of demo needed to duplicate the damage of a plane full of fuel crashing into something became much harded after the first WTC bombing and Oklahoma City. The amount of government attention on these purchases was spured by the fear of home-grown terrorists in milita groups (many of which did catch hell in the aftermath of Oklahoma City). So lets assume you get the tons of stuff you need. Now you need a place to work, people to do it, and time. Remember, Oklahoma City was a truckfull of amoninum nitrate and diesel fueland only managed to rip the front off an unreienforced low-rise building. To To duplicate the force generated by the planes impact you would need several trucks, lots more men, and ALOT more materials. And that isn't counting the additional damage caused by the jet fuel... One of the biggest issue with bulk use of demo of gas is transporting it to the target area. Tons of material require lots of trucks. Planting it (if needed) becomes a nightmare unless you happen to have a reason to haul in 55gal drums into someone elses building. Keeping it hidden once in place means that you have to pray maintance does't need to work on anything in the area you just ripped up till after you have set up everything, everywhere. Firing is easier than back in the day, but still not perfect. Radio detonators become less reliable in areas with high wireless traffic (like skyscrapers full of buisnessmen weilding cellphones, PDAs, and radios), sometimes resulting in premature detonation. Posted by JarekN There is just way too much wrong with the official story for me to buy it...
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I agree, but for a different reason. Government stupidity, legislative interferance, and politicing between agencies was how this was allowed to happen. The offical story is a cover-up not of the government staging 9/11, but of their failure to prevent it. Nobody has been held accountable for the failures of several diffrent agencies to prevent this disaster, and thanks to that "offical" story, nobody ever will. Posted by JarekN It is easy to shut up tons of people or have them say what they should when you have unlimited budget. I do not want to speculate on the number of people this project would require but I am sure that it would be containable and doable. I have been anti-government/police/military for as long as I can remember, frankly I think they do more bad then good
| No, we have managed to prove that you can never shut up everyone. See the list of terms to google for examples of real, proven government conspiracies I had in the last post here. The number of people needed for this is staggering if you want to plant demo in those buildings and drop them in the classic implosion. Not containable. Old mafia saying was (I belive) "three can keep a secret if two are dead". Oh, and anti-government? Fuck yeah. In it's current form it is a fucking travesty of what the writers of the Constitution intended. But until we see fit to either vote them all out or kill all the pols, we're stuck with it.
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