Here you go:

In the context of religious discussion, an atheist is asserting nothing (but refuting much and only asking for better evidence), while on the other hand the religious are making many assertions.

In this way, the intellectual burden is on the 'believer". In fact your creed requires you to try to convert non-believers lest they go to hell when your powers of persuasion and reason might have saved them.

You have no problem publicly stating the things that you believe (I only point out the things I don't believe and why). Are you able to defend any (or just a few) of your assertions?

I, for one, would be very interested in your reasoning. Can you watch this video and answer any of those ten questions for smart christians? (Can you do it without using the words: fag, queer, etc?)


http://www.youtube...atch?v=zDHJ4ztnldQ

Oh bless your little heart. Do you honestly expect anything good to come out of this?

Posted by Oryx Oh bless your little heart. Do you honestly expect anything good to come out of this?

Well, I have a hypothesis...

I haven't posted here in awhile, mainly because you never listen to anything I ever say Tekriter, instead you just keep on with your blatant hardening of your heart.

I can't stand to continually watch all this constant blasphemy, all steming from ignorance and disgust from a belief system with the intention of saving your eternal soul!

The person in that video has never studied Christian teachings, and their views are already biased.


1. Healing is about faith. What destroys faith more than anything? Physically seeing something such as a missing arm. As opposed to an internal sickness, which is not seen but only felt, ones faith is easily applied more to such things and therefore they can become healed. Todays culture and people like you make it difficult to have such faith because of your extreme doubt and hate towards our "flying spagetti monster".

However, you can see here that it is quite possible Jesus did in fact heal people with missing limbs, as leprosy can lead to fingers and toes being lost. The leper here was made "whole" because of his faith.

Luke 17:11-19
King James Version (KJV)

And it came to pass, as he went to Jerusalem, that he passed through the midst of Samaria and Galilee.

And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off:

And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us.

And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.

And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God,

And fell down on his face at his feet, giving him thanks: and he was a Samaritan.

And Jesus answering said, Were there not ten cleansed? but where are the nine?

There are not found that returned to give glory to God, save this stranger.

And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.


2. This isnt heaven! People die! That's life. It's also because of sin from the fall of man. People starve because there is a curse on this world brought on by the initial disobedience of man. This is also why God has commanded us to go out and preach the gospel and heal the sick, just like what Jesus did. Also, the guy in the video seems to know exactly what God worries about, um right... Life is unfair, deal with it. Also, the pictured starving children were in Africa, a place where witchcraft and voodoo are very prominent, such evil things open the door up to horrible things to people and God cannot protect them from their own poor decisions. What happened to Sodom and Gomorrah is a good example.

But of course the world doesnt think they should be responsible or be punished for things they do that God has forbidden.

3. I honestly dont have an answer for this one. I can tell you it was from the old testament. Jesus, the New testament, is the only way to God.

4. Is a mix of metaphors that are mocked because people think they should be scientific, and the facts are mocked because the guy in the video was brainwashed in school to think he came from apes and that everything came from nothing in a "big bang". Man being made frome clay is an obvious metaphor for being made of earthly elements. And the only reason people think the earth is billions of years old is from anti God scientists that need those billions of years to account for an impossible evolutionary theroy and also based off of carbon dating which is far from accurate due to its origins which were severely flawed, but they went with it anyways.

5. God never promoted slaves. And the term "slave" was thrown around loosly in the bible. Butlers and maids were considered slaves then, among actual hard driven slaves.

6. Why do bad things happen to good people?? Oh gosh. What is your definition of good? If that definition does not jive with Christian morals, then you have your answer of why bad things happen. You disobey God, either on purpose or inadvertantly, bad things will happen. Because there is force out there doing everything he can to steal your soul and torment it. Anything he can do to drive you away from God.

7. This one is just silly. Even if there was evidence, people like you Tekriter, with your hardened heart, would never believe it.

8. Have you ever asked Jesus to appear to you? With a pure heart. And stories of Jesus appearing to people are all over the place, but do you believe that? Of course not, your mind is already made up.

9. Holy shit that is a metaphor. Oh wait, no it isnt. On communion Sundays we cut apart a guy named Jesus and drink his blood and eat little pieces of him.

10. Christians arent perfect. Thinking such things is very ignorant. Yes, Christians strive to be like Jesus, but the truth is, and according to Romans 3:23, we have ALL sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. The difference between Christians and people of the world is that Christians have a savior and have let Him into their hearts as to have a relationship with Him. This doesnt mean that Christians dont face the same problems everyone else does! IF you accept Jesus, your soul is saved, but you still live in a world full of sin, and you have a free will. You can and will mess up.





I'm out.

Posted by Mr_Fiend The person in that video has never studied Christian teachings, and their views are already biased.

Whew, thank God you're not biased in some way.

Posted by Mr_Fiend However, you can see here that it is quite possible Jesus did in fact heal people with missing limbs, as leprosy can lead to fingers and toes being lost. The leper here was made "whole" because of his faith.

You must realize that you cannot use Bible stories as evidence, right? You have to realize that. Seriously. If you don't understand that, there is really no point in continuing at all.

Posted by Mr_Fiend Also, the pictured starving children were in Africa, a place where witchcraft and voodoo are very prominent, such evil things open the door up to horrible things to people and God cannot protect them from their own poor decisions.

Excellent. The world is in your debt. You have developed a practical experiment to prove the absolute existence of God. Simply isolate a group without evil and we can see how God protects them, proving finally that He exists. You should get to work on this right away.

Posted by Mr_Fiend 3. I honestly dont have an answer for this one. I can tell you it was from the old testament. Jesus, the New testament, is the only way to God.

Well then, maybe the question should be, "Why can't God make up his mind?"

Posted by Mr_Fiend anti God scientists impossible evolutionary theroy

Okay, so these weren't ideas that were brainwashed into you? Right.

Posted by Mr_Fiend 5. God never promoted slaves. And the term "slave" was thrown around loosly in the bible. Butlers and maids were considered slaves then, among actual hard driven slaves.

Just like how people played fast and loose with the Greek word for "young woman," which almost never implied "virgin," even though there were other words which did imply "virgin" and would have been used if that had been the intended meaning. And how the idea of the Trinity, which has zero basis in scripture, was dogmatized hundreds of years later, primarily as a political move against Germanic tribes.

Posted by Mr_Fiend You disobey God, either on purpose or inadvertantly, bad things will happen.

Or He flippantly decides to make a bet, using you as a game piece.

Posted by Mr_Fiend 7. This one is just silly. Even if there was evidence, people like you Tekriter, with your hardened heart, would never believe it.

Yeah, this one is pretty weak. But I prefer to believe that God hardened Tekriter's heart against understanding, because God is bitch who does that sometimes for the hell of it.

Posted by Mr_Fiend 8. And stories of Jesus appearing to people are all over the place, but do you believe that? Of course not, your mind is already made up.

He is amazingly camera shy, considering your claim that he is a very active social butterfly.

Posted by Mr_Fiend 9. Holy shit that is a metaphor. Oh wait, no it isnt. On communion Sundays we cut apart a guy named Jesus and drink his blood and eat little pieces of him.

Yes, Catholics do.

Posted by Mr_Fiend 10. Christians arent perfect. Thinking such things is very ignorant. Yes, Christians strive to be like Jesus, but the truth is, and according to Romans 3:23, we have ALL sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. The difference between Christians and people of the world is that Christians have a savior and have let Him into their hearts as to have a relationship with Him. This doesnt mean that Christians dont face the same problems everyone else does! IF you accept Jesus, your soul is saved, but you still live in a world full of sin, and you have a free will. You can and will mess up.

And if you accept that Jesus was just some guy, like he said he was, then your soul is free, the world around you is full of trouble that is your responsibility to make better, and you have free will. You can and will mess up, but you don't have to worry about some imaginary, inconsistent, unreliable, and arbitrary creature deciding to kill you for no discernible reason.

MM beat me to the punch on most of your responses - and pretty much covered it. But good on you for trying to save my soul.

There was just a couple things...

Posted by Mr_Fiend Tekriter, instead you just keep on with your blatant hardening of your heart.

Tee Hee....

Posted by Mr_Fiend 1. Healing is about faith. What destroys faith more than anything? Physically seeing something such as a missing arm.

So...faith is destroyed by evidence? Finally something we can agree on.

Posted by Mr_Fiend 3. I honestly dont have an answer for this one. I can tell you it was from the old testament. Jesus, the New testament, is the only way to God.

But that's not what jesus said:

Matthew 5:18-19
Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or tittle shall nowise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven.

Luke 16:17
It is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Further, most x-tians still follow old testament prescriptions on feasts, traditions, and other pointless teachings. You claim to have a formula for which parts to ignore and which parts are divine? Please share.

Posted by Mr_Fiend I'm out.

Of what? Questions or answers?

what i love is the continued preaching that christians are lovers not psychos, but when push comes to shove, it's always 'MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY... TO HELL!'

...when it comes to womens' reproductive issues...
...when it comes to gay rights...
...when it comes to separation of government from religious institutions...

Posted by tekriter But that's not what jesus said: Matthew 5:18-19 Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or tittle shall nowise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. Luke 16:17 It is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail. Further, most x-tians still follow old testament prescriptions on feasts, traditions, and other pointless teachings. You claim to have a formula for which parts to ignore and which parts are divine? Please share.

I wrote a diatribe on here years ago about how Christianity is Paul's version of Scientology. The majority of the texts that were compiled into what became the new testament were believed to have been written by Paul at the time, a guy who was born after Jesus died. Considering all of the prophecies that are interpreted as predicting Jesus, it is surprising that no one prophesized that he would have an errand boy who had to essentially create the religion, since Jesus certainly didn't create a religion based on worshiping himself.

While I get that faith is a difficult concept and religion has led to more problems in this world than solutions, I also think we should just leave people the fuck alone.

Posted by G to the Race While I get that faith is a difficult concept and religion has led to more problems in this world than solutions, I also think we should just leave people the fuck alone. http://3.bp.blogsp...aYAyY/s1600/2c.jpg

if folks want to believe, swell.
it's just when they start telling me how to live that i get pissed.

Posted by Samurai if folks want to believe, swell. it's just when they start telling me how to live that i get pissed.

And that's fine, but it goes the other way, too. If folks don't want to believe, swell; it's just when they start telling others how to live that I get pissed.

What I believe is in my head and my heart, not on my sleeve; if you prefer to wear your beliefs there, eat a bag of fuck, I want nothing to do w/you.

Posted by G to the Race And that's fine, but it goes the other way, too. If folks don't want to believe, swell; it's just when they start telling others how to live that I get pissed. What I believe is in my head and my heart, not on my sleeve; if you prefer to wear your beliefs there, eat a bag of fuck, I want nothing to do w/you.

Truer/saner words have never been posted

Posted by G to the Race And that's fine, but it goes the other way, too. If folks don't want to believe, swell; it's just when they start telling others how to live that I get pissed. What I believe is in my head and my heart, not on my sleeve; if you prefer to wear your beliefs there, eat a bag of fuck, I want nothing to do w/you.

Do you insist that I agree with you on this?

Posted by Oryx Truer/saner words have never been posted

Except...

There is no such thing as personal beliefs. We all interact with one another in increasingly complex ways. Belief is a lever that once pulled affects everything you do and more often than not those around you.

The only way to ensure that we move forward is to ensure that we all have good reasons to believe the things we believe.

The effects of religious belief on all of us are like the bars or a cage or the tentacles of an octopus. Nearly every aspect of our society is touched with the poison of unreasonable beliefs.

Our laws are perverted, our education is subverted, science is attacked, our medical care is foolishly limited, we are further divided into "us and them" groups that produce tribal violence, and our concepts of morality and ethics have been bent to be more about iron age stupidity than preserving the happiness and wellbeing of our fellow humans.

We are burdened with guilt over sexual choices because of 2,000 year old prejudice, hate and mistranslations. After thousands of years of discovery it is still taboo to question ridiculous public assertions just because they are labelled "faith".

In theory, in democratic societies, we have freedom of religion that necessarily entails freedom from religion. In practice, that is far from true.

Whether catholic or jewish, phred phelps, osama or hitler, unreasonable ideas should be challenged everywhere for all of our sakes.

Well, that sounds reasonable. Let's do that.

What Tek said.

Posted by Mr_Fiend Also, the pictured starving children were in Africa, a place where witchcraft and voodoo are very prominent, such evil things open the door up to horrible things to people and God cannot protect them from their own poor decisions. What happened to Sodom and Gomorrah is a good example.

I wanted to respond to this in particular. Let's assume your statements about witchcraft & voodoo are correct. I assume that it is primarily adults practicing these things, and that the kids are left to mostly be kids, to the extent that they can, and are subject to their parents' whims regarding any religious, spiritual or supernatural beliefs.

So my question is this: what god would punish children who have never been exposed to the "truth" because of the behavior of their parents? If your god exists, he is the biggest douche bag I can imagine. If God is love, then God should also be fairness, no?

I'm not saying this to deliberately insulting, I just can't believe that God would be so unfair.

Posted by tekriter Except... There is no such thing as personal beliefs. We all interact with one another in increasingly complex ways. Belief is a lever that once pulled affects everything you do and more often than not those around you. The only way to ensure that we move forward is to ensure that we all have good reasons to believe the things we believe. The effects of religious belief on all of us are like the bars or a cage or the tentacles of an octopus. Nearly every aspect of our society is touched with the poison of unreasonable beliefs. Our laws are perverted, our education is subverted, science is attacked, our medical care is foolishly limited, we are further divided into "us and them" groups that produce tribal violence, and our concepts of morality and ethics have been bent to be more about iron age stupidity than preserving the happiness and wellbeing of our fellow humans. We are burdened with guilt over sexual choices because of 2,000 year old prejudice, hate and mistranslations. After thousands of years of discovery it is still taboo to question ridiculous public assertions just because they are labelled "faith". In theory, in democratic societies, we have freedom of religion that necessarily entails freedom from religion. In practice, that is far from true. Whether catholic or jewish, phred phelps, osama or hitler, unreasonable ideas should be challenged everywhere for all of our sakes.

Nah, you probably know dozens of people who are true believers or hardcore atheists that you have never heard a peep from either way. The most pious Catholics I know are more likely to fight for non-believers than to make their faith public. Some folks just aren't dicks about their faith.

Now, you make very persuasive points about the reach of religion into our lives and I agree that we should fight that tooth and nail. I just prefer the tone to be civil and pragmatic; on this forum and other "progressive" internet outlets the attacks are vitriolic, personal, and constant. I can't say how many "Look what I found on facebook from this bible-thumper" posts I've seen on the front page of Reddit. It's just frustrating to know that people who claim reason as their guiding light can act like fucking children about those who don't. If they are effecting your life, fight them all you can, but mocking them on the internet does nothing but create sympathy for them.

Posted by splumer So my question is this: what god would punish children who have never been exposed to the "truth" because of the behavior of their parents?

It goes back to my previous statements of opening the door to evil because of the practicing of such things like witchcraft. The said "children" were still in that same environment and around it, the whole country has some serious anti God views and practices. Messing around with that shit just doesnt effect the people doing it. Once that spiritual door is open, anyone with weak innocent hearts are prime targets for the devil to take them down because he hates God's creation.

But thankfully, there is a large mission field in places such as Africa. Missionaries feeding the starving children, along with doing the most important thing of saving their precious souls, and giving them spiritual weapons to fend off the curses of their forefathers.

There is a whole nother world beyond what our physical minds can see. So much goes on behind the curtains. God's spirit provides us with perception of this world, it comes with having a relationship with God, he reviels things to those who ask. But of course you have to open up your heart first and have faith before the "light" comes on. Until then, you'll just be blind to these things and think I'm a nucking futcase.


Proverbs 3:5-6

Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

Posted by G to the Race Nah, you probably know dozens of people who are true believers or hardcore atheists that you have never heard a peep from either way. The most pious Catholics I know are more likely to fight for non-believers than to make their faith public. Some folks just aren't dicks about their faith.

True, most people, believers or not, have little influence on the world at large, but religious thought for many informs everything they do, and spills over into their dealings with others. Example: my son's girlfriend worked at Chick-Fil-A. They would have bi-weekly employee meetings, and the boss would start things off with a prayer. All employees were expected to take part in the prayer.

Also, how many people voted for Rick Santorum because of his religious views? Not enough, apparently, but enough to get him elected senator a couple times. How much money is given to churches when it could do some actual good, like feeding a hungry person or giving shelter to a homeless person? The AV company I used to work for did installs for big churches. I installed a Midas audio console that by itself ran about $10k. Their total bill for their install was over $150k. Here's the church's web site: www.parksidechurch.com