Posted by Mr_Fiend You wouldnt have your precious freedom if it werent for God. The pilgrims (christians) came here because of religious persecution in Europe. And now you guys are startin the same shit again with the christians.

[citation needed]

The pilgrims were some of the most freedom-bashing people who ever lived. They were puritans, and came to the New World because the English wouldn't let them ban music, dancing, fun in general, and every other religion.

They proceeded to ban all of these things as soon as they got here. Remember the Salem Witch trials? That was where the pilgrims set people on fire due to unproven accusations that they were Pagans.

We have our precious freedom because of reasonable and rational people like Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson, who rejected the extremes of Puritanism, and were Deists, not Christians.

Posted by jeepdave Sorry hoss, guess ya just have to have faith to understand God.

what kind of canned BS is this? The final bastion of every faithful unreasonable thinker. I'm so disapointed. I'll just have to do it for you:

Oh, yeah, well the human eye is soooo complex it could not have possible been evoluted...

...and how about the shroud of turin and stuff!

oh, nevermind.

Posted by jeepdave I actually feel bad for you, to have such a hatred for something you do not believe exist, hell, that's crazy.

save your pity, I am perfectly happy to exist in the here and now, I am confident that have done more for my fellow man than you, and not out of some misguided attempt to please a non-existent deity or gain myself a hopelessly improbable afterlife.

The only thing I am not happy about is the number of people whose lives are diminished by small minds and foolish superstition.

I don't hate the people, but I do hate the unreasonable ideas that people subscribe to that make them kill and torture one another, and the terrible waste that stupid ideas create - as well as the societal norm that allows people to get away with such foolishness without any demand for evidence.

Posted by Mr_Fiend You wouldnt have your precious freedom if it werent for God. The pilgrims (christians) came here because of religious persecution in Europe. And now you guys are startin the same shit again with the christians.

Let me paraphrase:

You would not have your semi-freedom, hampered by religious institutions with an iron age view of the world if it were not for an imaginary being. The followers of one misinformed sect travelled to america (where they massacred and enslaved aboriginal people and imported other slaves from africa) unencumbered by evidence because of other unreasonable thinking people in Europe. And now you make me sad by questioning my unfounded beliefs and I will willfully ignore that your arguments are not directed to any particular system of unfounded beliefs about the nature of the universe, but I will assume it is only directed at my group of like minded folks - because no other group is as important as mine.

I will point out that you would not be possible for you to post your thoughts on this website if the Great Spaghetti Monster had not created this holy interweb thingy and, yeah verily, you cannot know the great spaghetti monster unless you just believe (he's got his own website).

Posted by Avius [citation needed] The pilgrims were some of the most freedom-bashing people who ever lived. They were puritans, and came to the New World because the English wouldn't let them ban music, dancing, fun in general, and every other religion. They proceeded to ban all of these things as soon as they got here. Remember the Salem Witch trials? That was where the pilgrims set people on fire due to unproven accusations that they were Pagans. We have our precious freedom because of reasonable and rational people like Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson, who rejected the extremes of Puritanism, and were Deists, not Christians.

History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.
-Thomas Jefferson

Sorry I didn't feel the need to rehash old arguments (human eye, blah, blah, blah. ). You need to let things go man. Are we christians that scary? Oh noes run, its the scary christians, the believe in something they can't prove. You don't know me. You don't know what I have done and the motives. You are a logical failure as soon as you assume something. So don't try to label me fucker. I didn't attack you or give you shit, so don't start with me. Goddamn what a pissy.

Son bitch, *loads gun*, here we go again.

Posted by Avius [citation needed] The pilgrims were some of the most freedom-bashing people who ever lived.

Thats just your opinion, not a fact.

Posted by Avius They proceeded to ban all of these things as soon as they got here. Remember the Salem Witch trials? That was where the pilgrims set people on fire due to unproven accusations that they were Pagans.

I'm not condoning false accusations. The main freedom the pilgrims were concerned with was freedom of religion, (christianity), banning things that are an insult to the things of God go hand in hand.

I dated a chick who I later found out claimed to be a witch. After it was all said and done, I had half a mind to burn that crazy chick at the stake.

Posted by tekriter And now you make me sad by questioning my unfounded beliefs and I will willfully ignore that your arguments are not directed to any particular system of unfounded beliefs about the nature of the universe, but I will assume it is only directed at my group of like minded folks - because no other group is as important as mine.

This is not an attack, nor is it a personal attack against you. There is a bigger picture than just what you can see. I am deeply sorry you have been filled with such lies and rage towards things that have innocent intentions.

Pretty sure you are the one who started hurling fireballs of "hate" (to use an overused word), you are no better than the "evil christian" beliefs that you despise so much. Christianity and God wont go anywhere, so why keep attacking it and resisting it, EVEN if you dont agree with it? Maybe try to embrace something you dont understand, you might like it, hell, you might even begin to understand it.

Posted by Mr_Fiend Son bitch, *loads gun*, here we go again.

You know what? I just wrote like a half a page response to everything you just said, and then deleted it. I think it will save us all a bunch of time If I just recant my last post and replace it. Let's try this again.

Posted by Mr_Fiend You wouldnt have your precious freedom if it werent for God. The pilgrims (christians) came here because of religious persecution in Europe. And now you guys are startin the same shit again with the christians.

Thats just your opinion, not a fact.

See, now neither of us can argue any more! I'm learning!

Posted by tekriter TL;DR

You, sir, are truly the Jehova's Witness of Atheism.

Posted by Avius See, now neither of us can argue any more! I'm learning!

Ugh, I can argue all day, but I dont want to, and no one here wants to see massive paragraphs full of precisely placed big words meant to discredit the other giant paragraphs full of even larger words and some colorful metaphors.

Posted by jeepdave Sorry I didn't feel the need to rehash old arguments (human eye, blah, blah, blah. ). You need to let things go man. Are we christians that scary? Oh noes run, its the scary christians, the believe in something they can't prove. You don't know me. You don't know what I have done and the motives. You are a logical failure as soon as you assume something. So don't try to label me fucker. I didn't attack you or give you shit, so don't start with me. Goddamn what a pissy.

Wow. You are one angry little x-stian. Shouldn't you be turning the other cheek, or praying for spellcheck?

If you and yours have outrageous claims about the nature of the universe, and insist on yelling it to the four corners, you really ought to be prepared to have those foolish ideas questioned.

you wear your motives in your little labels that you have affixed to yourself, believer, christian, faithful, etc.

I have not made any claims at all about the nature of the universe. I'm just questioning your ideas and beliefs. You put them out there. You can put your head in the sand if you want, but you keep replying, more and more angry, less and less content.

Posted by Mr_Fiend Ugh, I can argue all day, but I dont want to, and no one here wants to see massive paragraphs full of precisely placed big words meant to discredit the other giant paragraphs full of even larger words and some colorful metaphors.

Lol, yeah. I thought for a minute that American History would be less contentious than The Existence of God, but I guess not. Hey, we were only at it for like half a page, this time!

Sigh. Look, I don't care if you don't believe. You simply seem to be trying to lump all the faithful into one lump. Sorry, don't work that way. I belong to no church. I do not force my beliefs on anyone. And the greatest thing is, I can always answer that I have faith in something, and not know the answer to everything on this planet. Oh, I will research and check facts, and if they jive they jive. But since none of us knows anything definite then I have as much a chance at being right as you. Simple really. You seem to like to lump all religious people into one category. Sorry. We are not all the same. Funny thing is, I'm thinkin it drives you insane to know the majority of humans are religious. It does doesn't it?

Posted by tekriter Shouldn't you be turning the other cheek, or praying for spellcheck?

You know just enough to be completely wrong about the Christian way of life. It doesnt work that way. Study the Word of God, then make your case, or else you're gonna keep pissing off the wrong Christains.

Posted by tekriter I have not made any claims at all about the nature of the universe. I'm just questioning your ideas and beliefs.

But your questions and arguments are all based on the belief and bias that God does not exist and that Darwin was correct. Its just an unfortunate side effect of arguing the existence of God. You question and argue that God doesnt exist, then you are basically defending the theory of the big bang and other such theories. Am I correct in that assumption?

According to God, if you are not for Him, you are against Him.

Posted by Mr_Fiend You know just enough to be completely wrong about the Christian way of life. It doesnt work that way. Study the Word of God, then make your case, or else you're gonna keep pissing off the wrong Christains.

or what? I'll be stoned? Burned at the stake?

Posted by Mr_Fiend But your questions and arguments are all based on the belief and bias that God does not exist and that Darwin was correct. Its just an unfortunate side effect of arguing the existence of God. You question and argue that God doesnt exist, then you are basically defending the theory of the big bang and other such theories. Am I correct in that assumption? According to God, if you are not for Him, you are against Him.

No.

I simply pointed out that there is NO good reason to believe in a god. None. Just wishful thinking and fear. There is an infinite number of things that there is no good reason to believe exist. The tooth fairy, the great spaghetti monster, santa clause, marvin the martian....


On the other hand, the overwhelming majority of the sciences has supported Darwin's theory. Evolution can be considered a fact.

There is also much to support the big bang theory as well, but it gets a little to quantum for my taste. The key issue here is that we don't know everything about the universe. There is no excuse, however, to make up your own explanations, or simply disregard evidence that is contrary to your fairy tale.

Well see, thats part of the problem. We don't feel its "made up" shit just to believe in it. Its much easier to not believe. I have had faith, lost it, and found it again. So I choose to give my life to Christ. Thats where I am right now, and I do not feel that belief in Him hinders my ability to ask questions and explore this world and all the wonder in it. To believe in God does not mean one has a lesser IQ. You may feel that way, but you would be selling yourself short to think that of all people of faith.

Posted by jeepdave Well see, thats part of the problem. We don't feel its "made up" shit just to believe in it. Its much easier to not believe. I have had faith, lost it, and found it again. So I choose to give my life to Christ. Thats where I am right now, and I do not feel that belief in Him hinders my ability to ask questions and explore this world and all the wonder in it. To believe in God does not mean one has a lesser IQ. You may feel that way, but you would be selling yourself short to think that of all people of faith.

Why put belief in christ above all other deities?

Posted by Kbasa Why put belief in christ above all other deities?

Its simply the path to God I chose. Thats why I don't run down other religions for the most part. I believe in one God but many paths to Him. Christ simply made the most sense to me personally. I don't think that all the other religions are necessarily wrong, I simply think they are all different means trying to get to the same end. God, I believe, speaks to each culture of people in their own way. It takes people to go and fuck it up and think they are superior to other people in "His" name.

Posted by Mr_Fiend You know just enough to be completely wrong about the Christian way of life. It doesnt work that way. Study the Word of God, then make your case, or else you're gonna keep pissing off the wrong Christains. But your questions and arguments are all based on the belief and bias that God does not exist and that Darwin was correct. Its just an unfortunate side effect of arguing the existence of God. You question and argue that God doesnt exist, then you are basically defending the theory of the big bang and other such theories. Am I correct in that assumption? According to God, if you are not for Him, you are against Him.

If anyone here has studied the word of god, it's Tek. Based on his prior posts, he's much more well-read in the Bible than anyone else here.

In my case, you are correct. Are you familiar with Occam's Razor? In short, it's the idea that the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. Evolution, the Big Bang, etc., are the simplest explanations of how the universe came to exist. They have, over time, grown from hypotheses into theories, supported by mountains of evidence, peer-reviewed ad infinitum. Gods simply don't enter into the equation. That doesn't mean they don't exist, just that science has no need of them.

One could argue that God created the universe to appear as though it is billions of years old, and placed all those Carbon-14 atoms in objects to make us think they were dated to such a time, but that's not really a very simple explanation, is it?

Two things I find interesting:

1. Discussions on the religion board always degenerate into whether or not God exists.

2. Those who profess to be Christians don't seem to follow Jesus's philosophy as much as those who do not profess to be Christians. So I ask, is it possible to follow Jesus's philosophy but not believe in his divinity?

_Lunchtime

Posted by splumer If anyone here has studied the word of god, it's Tek.

Oh I believe that, but he doesnt have an understanding of what it all really means (no offense to you Tek). You must practice the Word of God to understand it. You can read the "nonsense" all day, but it wont mean a thing until you start to apply it to your life. Like I've been saying all along, try it, you might like it. Satan knows the Word of God better than any of us, thats how he knows how to twist and pervert things and deceive people.

Posted by splumer One could argue that God created the universe to appear as though it is billions of years old, and placed all those Carbon-14 atoms in objects to make us think they were dated to such a time, but that's not really a very simple explanation, is it?

It could very well be that simple...

Posted by splumer Those who profess to be Christians don't seem to follow Jesus's philosophy as much as those who do not profess to be Christians. So I ask, is it possible to follow Jesus's philosophy but not believe in his divinity?

Thats an excellent and very true observation, although it certainly doesnt apply to all Christians. Christians are human, they make mistakes just like everyone, but God also said that if we repent, he will forgive us and it will be like it never happened. According to the bible, you must accept Jesus to be let into Gods kingdom, everything else you do is up to God to judge, not me or you.

Posted by Mr_Fiend According to God a human interpretation of God, as replicated in religious texts, if you are not for Him, you are against Him.

Posted by Mr_Fiend Oh I believe that, but he doesnt have an understanding of what it all really means (no offense to you Tek). You must practice the Word of God to understand it. You can read the "nonsense" all day, but it wont mean a thing until you start to apply it to your life. Like I've been saying all along, try it, you might like it. Satan knows the Word of God better than any of us, thats how he knows how to twist and pervert things and deceive people.

Ummm, this is the same bullshit argument that islamists use. That you can't appreciate the intention of their holy books unless you read them in the original language. And it's bullshit there too.

Words have meanings. They have books full of meanings for words called dictionaries. If you're saying the words don't mean what they mean unless you can read AND believe in god then you have rendered your own arguments moot because that would imply that they could mean anything.

Come to think of it, isn't that how Joseph Smith said the devices he used to read the plates he dictated the Book of Mormon worked? Translating gibberish to english with the power of faith? So at least you have an example to work from. Good luck with that...