See?

That's what I'm talking about. Instead of trying to explain where you are coming from and possibly changing my view on your stance, you go on the defensive. Sorry, but I still am not buying it.

All I have seen you do is attack every belief but your own. Me, personally, don't have to believe something to listen to it and not write it off as wicked, evil, or a one way ticket to hell. The only thing I have seen you spread is hate and distain. Funny, I didn't think Jesus was into that stuff. I thought he was more a "don't judge people, don't hate on people, live your life and let God do the judging". Funny how much judgement of other people's beliefs you seem to be spitting out.

Not saying it's wrong or right, just ironic.

Posted by Mr_Fiend Just ignore me, you obviously dont like me.

I don't know you. So liking you has nothing to do with my reply. Your words do. I don't agree with how you are delivering your message. So I am pointing that out.

Posted by Mr_Fiend Um, if you dont want, or fear people attacking your beliefs or who you are, you should probably leave before you get pissed off. But I shouldnt have to tell you that.

Your words, not mine.

Posted by maypost I don't agree with how you are delivering your message. So I am pointing that out.

Wonderful. Feel free to dislike my methods 24/7.

Posted by maypost Your words, not mine.

Yes, they are mine. I said them for a reason

Posted by maypost Instead of trying to explain where you are coming from and possibly changing my view on your stance, you go on the defensive.

All I practically do on this board is explain myself!


Try asking me questions and debating instead of just outright saying I'm trolling.

I'll talk to you and tell you the reasons why I feel the way I feel and believe what I believe if you would be polite and debate.

I suggest you read some of the previous posts in this board, to get a better idea of what I'm trying to accomplish here. Maybe then you wouldnt rip my head off so quickly.

Posted by maypost The only thing I have seen you spread is hate and distain

Who is attacking who now? Please, give me specific examples of how I "spread hate".


Way to turn this into a "roast Fiend" thread ;)

there you go... religion bringing folks together...

like a fucking train wreck.

Posted by Mr_Fiend Please, give me specific examples of how I "spread hate".

Maybe one bit of evidence is that everyone keeps making note of the way you are seemingly filled with a deep seated hatred of others?

Posted by MutantMandias Maybe one bit of evidence is that everyone keeps making note of the way you are seemingly filled with a deep seated hatred of others?

Like a big circle. That isn't evidence, just finger pointing.

i can't believe this is still going on.

Posted by Mr_Fiend Like a big circle.

That's awesome. Nice one. You saying that other people are using circular reasoning. Top notch!

Posted by Mr_Fiend God specifically said to numerous people not to worship false idols. The israelites did this while Moses was acquiring the 10 commandments (which ironically say not to worship idols or false gods).

Isn't the commandment specifically: Thou shalt not have any other gods before me? It sounds to me like Yahweh was acknowledging the existence of other gods, but saying you should only worship him. It doesn't seem like he was saying the other gods were false, necessarily.

All I have seen you do is attack every belief but your own. Me, personally, don't have to believe something to listen to it and not write it off as wicked, evil, or a one way ticket to hell.

The way I've seen it is that Fiend treats his beliefs as self-evident truths, and everyone else's as inherently false. But in fairness, he's not the only one who does this.

Posted by splumer Isn't the commandment specifically: Thou shalt not have any other gods before me? It sounds to me like Yahweh was acknowledging the existence of other gods, but saying you should only worship him. It doesn't seem like he was saying the other gods were false, necessarily.

God defined as noun:

1. a supernatural being, who is worshipped as the controller of some part of the universe or some aspect of life in the world or is the personification of some forceRelated: divine

2. an image, idol, or symbolic representation of such a deity

3. any person or thing to which excessive attention is given: money was his god

4. a man who has qualities regarded as making him superior to other men



God makes it clear throughout the bible that nothing is to be lifted above Him.
Idol worshiping is touched on a LOT, and Jesus even says that He IS the truth.

Posted by splumer The way I've seen it is that Fiend treats his beliefs as self-evident truths, and everyone else's as inherently false.

Of course I do. How would it make my beliefs look if I didnt back them 100%???
I stand by what I believe to be true, and its my job to tell other people the truth. And like I say to everyone else, dont like, dont have to believe it. But dont call me names or jump to conclusions. Think I'm crazy? Ask me why, I'll tell ya! I have someone who gives me peace and joy, and I want other people to have that too. And I wont sugar coat the truth either. And if that comes off as being "hate speech", then so be it, I'm not concerned about your feelings, I'm concerned about your soul!


Thank you again Splumer for conducting a civil discussion.

Posted by Mr_Fiend God defined as noun:

Please understand that this is completely meaningless, unless you are using a dictionary that was published over 3000 years ago.

Posted by Mr_Fiend God makes it clear throughout the bible that nothing is to be lifted above Him. Idol worshiping is touched on a LOT, and Jesus even says that He IS the truth.

You didn't answer my question, so let me re-phrase it. Did God say, essentially "Yeah, Vishnu, Thor and the others exist, but you must only worship me, bitches!"?

Of course I do. How would it make my beliefs look if I didnt back them 100%??? I stand by what I believe to be true, and its my job to tell other people the truth.

I stand by my beliefs, both here and in the Politics forum, but I don't regard them as self-evident truths. Many of them are based on evidence ("humans evolved from lower mammals via natural selection") but some are opinion ("Government should provide assistance to poor people."). I think these are true, but I recognize that not everyone here shares my beliefs. I understand how others have different opinions.

Everyone believes their beliefs, thats why its called your beliefs. I believe in god. do i believe i am 100% right? no. would i ever tell some one they are wrong for what they believe? no. it is out of respect for them and their beliefs. once those beliefs cross the line and start being hateful towards myself or other i care about, then i go will after you. I have said this before and i will say it again, it is my belief that all ways of "worship", be it religion or science, are all pieces of the same puzzle. I believe you have to have both to have a clear understanding of the other.

Posted by splumer You didn't answer my question, so let me re-phrase it. Did God say, essentially "Yeah, Vishnu, Thor and the others exist, but you must only worship me, bitches!"?

No, and He didnt need to. He had proven to them that He was the one and only, the "king of kings" as the scripture says. God and the people were aware that were other gods, but only one true God who was and is the "beginning and the end". In the same series of events, His power was shown to Pharaoh , who's own "god" failed to raise his first born from the dead. That was a result of Pharaoh's defiance, which lead to God (the only "god" with proven power) letting lose the angel of death. If everyone had listened to Gods warning, no one would have died. That entire story shows that He IS the only God with authoirity and power.
(this is all spelled out in bible, not my words)

Posted by splumer but I don't regard them as self-evident truths. Many of them are based on evidence ("humans evolved from lower mammals via natural selection") but some are opinion ("Government should provide assistance to poor people."). I think these are true, but I recognize that not everyone here shares my beliefs. I understand how others have different opinions.

Then your beliefs could therefore be changed because of new or conflicting evidence, right? So they are not set in stone.

The difference between you and me is that your beliefs can change based on evidence, and therefore would have no ultimate truth within itself because there will always be new evidence. Or am I wrong about this?

My beliefs are not based on evidence, or rather worldly evidence, they are based on faith and what really happened (whether you want to accept the bible as a historical document or not), and therefore will NEVER changed. And the 10 commandments WERE physically put in stone. As to their actual where abouts today, well, still a mystery...

Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby do i believe i am 100% right? no.

Then as I have said before, you open yourself up to being deceived, or your views easily altered or manipulated without you catching on. Going with the flow of what people say is right or wrong based on science and evidence gathered by man. Right? If you disagree with me on this, please explain to me why?


I say, if you're gonna believe in something and base you life on it, you better be damn ready to die for those beliefs and treat them as 100 percent truth, or else what was the point of living and thinking the way you did? Why live with doubt? Then risk dying with a 98% trust in your beliefs?

Posted by Mr_Fiend Then as I have said before, you open yourself up to being deceived, or your views easily altered or manipulated without you catching on. Going with the flow of what people say is right or wrong based on science and evidence gathered by man. Right? If you disagree with me on this, please explain to me why? I say, if you're gonna believe in something and base you life on it, you better be damn ready to die for those beliefs and treat them as 100 percent truth, or else what was the point of living and thinking the way you did? Why live with doubt? Then risk dying with a 98% trust in your beliefs?

The devil isn't real. I don't base my life on religion. I leave myself open to advancements in technology and understanding. I'm not willing to die for god or anything else i believe. I will die for my family. but thats it. if i am given the choice of being shot bc i say i believe in god or not being shot, guess what i dont believe in god! This type radically devotion is dangerous to yourself and society. Its like the islamic suicide bombers or the japanese kamikaze pilots or any other number insane radicals. (side not remember when radical meant cool. also remember the Rad Board, that thing was totally radical!) I am 100% confident in my beliefs, but i am open to new evidence. you keep mentioning teh bible as evidence. the bible was written by man. so by your logic it is just fallible as science. science is figures out facts. religion does not.

Posted by Mr_Fiend No, and He didnt need to. He had proven to them that He was the one and only, the "king of kings" as the scripture says. God and the people were aware that were other gods, but only one true God who was and is the "beginning and the end". In the same series of events, His power was shown to Pharaoh , who's own "god" failed to raise his first born from the dead. That was a result of Pharaoh's defiance, which lead to God (the only "god" with proven power) letting lose the angel of death. If everyone had listened to Gods warning, no one would have died. That entire story shows that He IS the only God with authoirity and power.(this is all spelled out in bible, not my words)

Well not the entire story...

2 Kings 3 recounts how Joram, Jehoshaphat, and the king of Edom combined forces to attempt to bring Moab back under Israelite control. They attacked from the south and were successful in routing the Moabite forces and destroying many towns (2 Kgs. 3: 24-25). But when the coalition tried to dislodge Mesha from Kir Hareseth (modern Kerak), they were unsuccessful. After Mesha sacrificed his oldest son on the ramparts of the city,

"26-When the king of Moab saw that the battle was going against him, he took with him seven hundred swordsmen to break through, opposite the king of Edom; but they could not.
27-Then he took his eldest son who was to reign in his stead, and offered him for a burnt offering upon the wall. And there came great wrath upon Israel; and they withdrew from him and returned to their own land." (2 Kings. 3:26-27)

So basically, the Israelite army(under the sign of God) was told that if they followed the "one true God" they could not fail in their war. So Mesha, King of the Moab sacrifices his son to his god(not the god of Israel) and then HE wins teh war and gets HIS land back.

This is in the bible... so according to you... God's words, not mine.

Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby This type radically devotion is dangerous to yourself and society. Its like the islamic suicide bombers or the japanese kamikaze pilots or any other number insane radicals.

So now I'm a radical?

Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby I am 100% confident in my beliefs, but i am open to new evidence.

So then, if evidence arises to change (perhaps signifcantly) your 100% confidence in your current beliefs, then you will or wont change them? That isnt a crazy statement, since science is always making profound discoveries.

Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby you keep mentioning teh bible as evidence. the bible was written by man. so by your logic it is just fallible as science.

And so by that logic anything and everything is fallible. Right? The bible isnt a science book, it was recorded history and is the ONLY historic book with proven timelines of fulfilled prophecies. Just because it was written thousands of years ago, doesnt mean it's bogus.

But dont take my word for it, I encourage you to do some research.

Posted by Mr_Fiend So now I'm a radical?

yes

Posted by Mr_Fiend So then, if evidence arises to change (perhaps signifcantly) your 100% confidence in your current beliefs, then you will or wont change them? That isnt a crazy statement, since science is always making profound discoveries.

yes

Posted by Mr_Fiend And so by that logic anything and everything is fallible. Right? The bible isnt a science book, it was recorded history and is the ONLY historic book with proven timelines of fulfilled prophecies. Just because it was written thousands of years ago, doesnt mean it's bogus. But dont take my word for it, I encourage you to do some research.

ohhh you're right! i forgot about the part in the bible about JFK and dinosaurs. My bad. proven timelines? like the world ending?

i've done far more research than you could hope to do.

Posted by maypost Well not the entire story...

Not the story of Moses and Pharaoh, of which I was using to make my point. I really havent studied this other event, which of course has different principles.

Posted by Mr_Fiend Not the story of Moses and Pharaoh, of which I was using to make my point. I really havent studied this other event, which of course has different principles.

so you are picking and choosing which parts you want to use to make your point?