Posted by velcrozeppelin Here's the thing with the Caliber, in particular, the SRT4. It's fucking scary to drive. With the normal 2.0 and 2.4 I4's, it's kinda scary. It handles like it's got palsy and accelerates very erratically. Adding a turbo puts the car to about 300hp when it's meant for 125. Add high-revving gearing to it, your boost builds instantly, and you're just fucked. Oh yeah, add torque steer and particularly dead steering feel on top. Doesn't matter how fast you're going, chances are good you're accelerating like a bat out of hell and have no control over it. Imagine being strapped to a poorly made firecracker. It's like driving an 80's Volvo diesel at 100. It's fun because it's so fucking scary, but you can only go for so long before you run out of cojones.

...or run out of luck...

the Caliber was just such a shitty attempt after they sort of got the Neon right.

Posted by Samurai ...or run out of luck... the Caliber was just such a shitty attempt after they sort of got the Neon right.

You know, the Caliber is just OK...nothing special, nothing bad. It could use some improvements to be what the Neon was, but they didn't for some stupid reason.

Posted by Agent Skelly It does stack up; but not in the H1 like you said, but in the HMMV. The problem is that most IFS suspensions you see today are just plain awful. They are tuned for the road rather than the trail. I love the old spring coil suspension as its a great piece of retro tech that just works, but Chyrsler did have a great IFS that also did just work like the spring coil did. It was not until the JK Wranglers did it appear the way it was intended which I know you don't care for I believe (even though they are just as capable)

I don't Hate the JK. They are quite capable (I still believe the 4 door is mislabled and should be called the Cherokee with a frame lol). I don't care for the engine (max torque too high) nor the curved windshield (looks uber goofy layed down) or plastic fenders (gonna be ugly when they bleach out, just like TJ flares). The suspension is top notch. Needs a ABS off switch tho, and the Rubicon could use a 3 speed case (as nice as 4:1 is in the rocks it simply will piss you off in sand or mud). Not a bad Jeep really but if they could have stuck with the 4.0 (emissions and safety killed that engine. Not to mention NVH regs) and kept its size down better I may would considered one in the future (I hate wide vehicles on the trail, long is ok like a Cherokee but width can be aggravating on the trails around here.) I'm just dreading the day when there is a IFS wrangler in the mix. Total off road suckage.

Posted by jeepdave I don't Hate the JK. They are quite capable (I still believe the 4 door is mislabled and should be called the Cherokee with a frame lol). I don't care for the engine (max torque too high) nor the curved windshield (looks uber goofy layed down) or plastic fenders (gonna be ugly when they bleach out, just like TJ flares). The suspension is top notch. Needs a ABS off switch tho, and the Rubicon could use a 3 speed case (as nice as 4:1 is in the rocks it simply will piss you off in sand or mud). Not a bad Jeep really but if they could have stuck with the 4.0 (emissions and safety killed that engine. Not to mention NVH regs) and kept its size down better I may would considered one in the future (I hate wide vehicles on the trail, long is ok like a Cherokee but width can be aggravating on the trails around here.) I'm just dreading the day when there is a IFS wrangler in the mix. Total off road suckage.

I've known a few people who have done IFS conversions on Wrangers; granted they were with tractor tires, and I was impressed.

I know from the surveys done at Camp Jeep, Chrysler found people did want a 4 door Wrangler just so they can have the occasional 2 more passengers instead of the folding seat making things awkward.

Actually, Emissions and Safety did not kill the AMC I4; the guys at Stuttgart did not like having a engine production line with parts and tools not compatable witht he rest of the Chrysler line. I'm surprised they did not slap in that goofy Mercedes I4 engine.

However, I wish the I4 was still in there just as a reminder of the AMC heritage of the Jeep.

Posted by Agent Skelly I've known a few people who have done IFS conversions on Wrangers; granted they were with tractor tires, and I was impressed. I know from the surveys done at Camp Jeep, Chrysler found people did want a 4 door Wrangler just so they can have the occasional 2 more passengers instead of the folding seat making things awkward. Actually, Emissions and Safety did not kill the AMC I4; the guys at Stuttgart did not like having a engine production line with parts and tools not comparable witht he rest of the Chrysler line. I'm surprised they did not slap in that goofy Mercedes I4 engine. However, I wish the I4 was still in there just as a reminder of the AMC heritage of the Jeep.

Lol true, I guess IFS and IRS can have a purpose lol. Thank god there no Merc 4. Shudder. And I know that customers wanted a 4 door, its just in the past you went and got (the very capable) cherokee or grand and enjoyed. Meh, its still a Jeep. And at least it has solid axles. (Tho the 2wd version has WTF written all over it, at least they will be cheap and not too hard to swap over, like 2wd Cherokee/Commanche). I know jeep has to make more than just wranglers to be competitive. I just wish the stayed a bit more true to their heritage.

Posted by jeepdave Lol true, I guess IFS and IRS can have a purpose lol. Thank god there no Merc 4. Shudder. And I know that customers wanted a 4 door, its just in the past you went and got (the very capable) cherokee or grand and enjoyed. Meh, its still a Jeep. And at least it has solid axles. (Tho the 2wd version has WTF written all over it, at least they will be cheap and not too hard to swap over, like 2wd Cherokee/Commanche). I know jeep has to make more than just wranglers to be competitive. I just wish the stayed a bit more true to their heritage.

Well, I am happy that at least Stuttgart didn't any major meddling when the JK Series was under development. They pretty much only told the Jeep group "No More I4" and nothing else. I'm amazed they didn't screw up the Dodge Ram; but I think its because the Mercedes guys don't know anything about trucks so they left that to us. I'm glad too they added a removable top to the model as well (something that bothered me in the Dakar) and even better made it so you can remove it in sections.

Posted by Agent Skelly You know, the Caliber is just OK...nothing special, nothing bad. It could use some improvements to be what the Neon was, but they didn't for some stupid reason.

The only thing OK about the Caliber is... ummm... yeah, I haven't figured that out yet.

At the X-Games last year we had a Ford Focus, a Sentra, a Lancer and a Caliber for our rental cars. I pretty much hate everything about the Focus, and it was a hundred times the car the Caliber was.

First off... it's about as awkward looking as Gary Busey. You'd think with it's station wagony looks, it'd have trunk space. It doesn't. My Beetle has more trunk space, which is pathetic.

It's uncomfortable to drive in. I'm a little guy... 5'6" max, and I felt cramped in the drivers seat. The back seat was a lost cause, I've never been so uncomfortable in my life.

The CVT is a JOKE. I'm pretty sure CVT in that car stands for "constantly vulernerable transmission". Between the watered down excuse for an engine, and that obscene tranny, it kind of reminded me of driving an overloaded aluminum boat across a choppy lake... especially the sound the engine made while struggling to get up to highway speed.

I've driven some AWFUL cars... and nothing topped the Caliber. I can't believe they replaced the Neon with that pitiful excuse for a car. The worst vehicle I have driven in my life.

Posted by Agent Skelly Well, I am happy that at least Stuttgart didn't any major meddling when the JK Series was under development. They pretty much only told the Jeep group "No More I4" and nothing else. I'm amazed they didn't screw up the Dodge Ram; but I think its because the Mercedes guys don't know anything about trucks so they left that to us. I'm glad too they added a removable top to the model as well (something that bothered me in the Dakar) and even better made it so you can remove it in sections.

I do like that top. I have a hard top on my TJ now. Its hell by yourself. The I-4 (I have the older 2.5 tractor engine) while hell on the interstate is fanfuckingtastic on the trails around here. I've had 6 YJ and V8 CJ (5 no less) and the are more fun but can get you into trouble quicker. I actually would like to see an 8 in the JK but it needs to produce torque at a lower rpm than the engines we have today (a diesel would be a wet dream come true). You seem pretty well versed on jeepdom. Have you ever read about how the Rubicon came to be and about the "lunatic fringe" at jeep who made it happen. (With money from their own pockets at times)?

only good time i had in a caliber was in the back seat

Posted by jeepdave I do like that top. I have a hard top on my TJ now. Its hell by yourself. The I-4 (I have the older 2.5 tractor engine) while hell on the interstate is fanfuckingtastic on the trails around here. I've had 6 YJ and V8 CJ (5 no less) and the are more fun but can get you into trouble quicker. I actually would like to see an 8 in the JK but it needs to produce torque at a lower rpm than the engines we have today (a diesel would be a wet dream come true). You seem pretty well versed on jeepdom. Have you ever read about how the Rubicon came to be and about the "lunatic fringe" at jeep who made it happen. (With money from their own pockets at times)?

My father was for 15 years a Jeep guy...you tend to absorb all things Jeep when he asks me to help him upgrade everything

Posted by Agent Skelly My father was for 15 years a Jeep guy...you tend to absorb all things Jeep when he asks me to help him upgrade everything

Lol. So you probably understand how its more of a lifestyle than just transportation. And how we can turn a blind eye to ALL the faults they do have lol. Its like a sickness that leaves you scarred, mentally unstable and broke.

Posted by Nismo only good time i had in a caliber was in the back seat with a tough trick named Jim

Fixed (Finished) it for ya :p

Posted by jeepdave Lol. So you probably understand how its more of a lifestyle than just transportation. And how we can turn a blind eye to ALL the faults they do have lol. Its like a sickness that leaves you scarred, mentally unstable and broke.

I had two XJs. They were both awful... and I loved them.

Posted by bandi I had two XJs. They were both awful... and I loved them.

Lol. Gets in your blood don't it. I dunno. Its that perfect day when your headed to the mountains. In the TJ ya got the top off, doors off, radio up, rowing thru the gears. And even when that thunderstorm pops up, and you get soaked, you still can't wipe that God damned smile off your face. I have a XJ too. Its mainly bashed on the trails now. Gives you the same feeling, even when your crawling out of it after laying it over on a tricky washout. The whole time ya got that friggen smile. Us jeep folk are weird fucking folk, and I'm ok with that.

Yeah, I wish I could find another one cheap! A CJ, TJ or YJ would be awesome but they command some pretty big money around here.

Posted by jeepdave Lol. So you probably understand how its more of a lifestyle than just transportation. And how we can turn a blind eye to ALL the faults they do have lol. Its like a sickness that leaves you scarred, mentally unstable and broke.

I found it to be both. Some of people I have met via my father I think took the lifestyle part too far ha.

Posted by Agent Skelly I found it to be both. Some of people I have met via my father I think took the lifestyle part too far ha.

My next tat will be a jeep grill. What's that tell ya

Posted by jeepdave My next tat will be a jeep grill. What's that tell ya

Hahaha.

The Toyota Land Cruiser guys are just plain nuts. At the 4x4 Rally races I help out at for communications (different from the rally races) I have to deal with these fruitcups who think that the Land Cruiser is God Gift's to the off-road.

Posted by jeepdave My next tat will be a jeep grill. What's that tell ya

You should get only

O|||||||O

So it's a little more discreet and only jeep people will understand it.

Posted by velcrozeppelin You should get only O|||||||O So it's a little more discreet and only jeep people will understand it.

Ya pretty much nailed it.